Whiskey first timer

Production methods from starch to sugars.

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Grif
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Whiskey first timer

Post by Grif »

I've been doing gin, vodka and rum for years from sugar and dextrose washes. I have a good source of very cheap dextrose. But i want to try making an aged whiskey. So here are my thoughts on it so far.

I have a 120l insulated boiler with 2 3KW elements and two 200l blue food grade barrels as fermenters. I intend to put my boiler on my bench and fill it with water and bring to the boil. Empty it into the blue barrel from the drainage tap in the bottom and add crushed distillers malting barley which is available locally. Repeat with the second barrel. Leave it to soak and when it reaches 25C pitch the yeast.

The malted barley comes in 25kg bags. How many would I need per barrel?
Should I use just malt or should I mix with dextrose and if so at what rate?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.
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Re: Whiskey first timer

Post by Twisted Brick »

Congrats on stepping up to all-grain and the wonderful world of whiskey flavors open to you. Like making a souffle, the ingredient list in a whiskey can be small, but the process control needed to ensure a top-flight result is paramount. If you haven't already, review some of the single malt threads in Tried and True to get an idea of mash protocols. Proper mash-in temps for malted barley are 140-150F.

2lbs/gal is a good starting ratio of grain-to-water and as you gain experience can be modified. You can certainly add dextrose (or any sugar) to your all-grain mash, but at the expense of diluting the rich single-malt flavor of your grain. You might want to start with some smaller batches that scale a little better to one of your copper pot stills rather than going big the first time.

John Palmer's How to Brew is a great resource for first-time mashers.

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Re: Whiskey first timer

Post by River Rat »

Just reiterating what Twisted said. Watch your temperature, it is very important. Sounds like you have easily accessible grain and I would not add dextrose or any other sugar in that case. You can pull plenty of fermentable sugar from the grain. I think you would find a true all grain product superior to one with added sugars.
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Re: Whiskey first timer

Post by Deplorable »

It took me 4 X 25 gallon mashes to fill a 5 gallon barrel of single malt. At 2 pounds per gallon figure on 200 pounds. Add some additional grains for your stove top mash yeast starters. Four 25kg bags will be more than plenty.
As already said, pay close attention to your strike water temperature and the temp of your grains. Use a strike water calculator and aim for 148-150°F strike temp. Don't just dump boing water on milled malt.
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Re: Whiskey first timer

Post by Grif »

Thanks for the advice, this is a steep learning curve :) . I have been using electric heating elements for sugar washes. Will they be ok for grain washes or is there a risk of getting a burnt taste. Will it be ok if I filter out all the solids before going to the boiler?
I am in Ireland and I have access to Irish whiskey distilling malts and Scottish too. It would be a shame not to give it a go. I am a self-sufficiency nut. I want to have my own whiskey too. Being self sufficient means you have to do big batches to get you through the year because I don't have the time to spend making small batches every couple of weeks. I set the stills and fermenters up for a couple of weeks in my larder shed. I usually do one or two reflux runs for the neutral spirit to see me right for the year. But I'd love to do a batch of whiskey alongside and age it. So eventually I would have a years supply of whiskey every year. I am think I would need to have 50-80 liters of whiskey a year to be comfortable and maybe be able to age some for longer than 3 years. Then there's the aging..... :?
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Re: Whiskey first timer

Post by Deplorable »

Clear your mash and run it. It won't scorch.
I fer.ent on grain, rack the clear off the top, squeeze the grains and clear that. From a 25 gallon mash I recover about 22 to 23 gallons of clear wash for the still.
A little more on an all barley mash. Corn is a bitch.
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Re: Whiskey first timer

Post by jonnys_spirit »

For all-grain batches you'll want to strain/squeeze the grain and allow sediment to drop out before running it to prevent scorches. Some folks run with the trub and some folks allow it to settle and rack off the trub to run clear beer... I've had some scorches and some not with AG and trub (electric heating element 5k5W) so I just clear it now as part of my protocol and don't worry about it.

Recommend large fermenter at least about 3x the size of your boiler so you're only mashing and fermenting once per 3x strip/spirit run... Looks like you're close to that so cheers!

Btw - largest boiler permitted to discuss on this site is 30 gallons - This keeps it under a size that is deemed adequate for hobby level home distilling - What you do in your shed is your business but we don't want to promote anything outside of hobby level activities.

Best luck!
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
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Re: Whiskey first timer

Post by Grif »

jonnys_spirit wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 7:36 am For all-grain batches you'll want to strain/squeeze the grain and allow sediment to drop out before running it to prevent scorches. Some folks run with the trub and some folks allow it to settle and rack off the trub to run clear beer... I've had some scorches and some not with AG and trub (electric heating element 5k5W) so I just clear it now as part of my protocol and don't worry about it.

Recommend large fermenter at least about 3x the size of your boiler so you're only mashing and fermenting once per 3x strip/spirit run... Looks like you're close to that so cheers!

Btw - largest boiler permitted to discuss on this site is 30 gallons - This keeps it under a size that is deemed adequate for hobby level home distilling - What you do in your shed is your business but we don't want to promote anything outside of hobby level activities.

Best luck!
-j
Ok got the 30 gallon thing now, thanks :thumbup: . My 120l boiler is for stripping runs only. I have a 100l boiler for spirit runs. Never sold a drop of the stuff so it is purely a hobby with me. I have a 50l boiler and a 10l boiler too
I was considering getting two more fermenters, might be useful for racking and settling.

Do you rinse the grains after squeezing to get any residue sugars?
Last edited by Grif on Wed May 12, 2021 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Whiskey first timer

Post by Grif »

Deplorable wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 7:35 am Clear your mash and run it. It won't scorch.
I fer.ent on grain, rack the clear off the top, squeeze the grains and clear that. From a 25 gallon mash I recover about 22 to 23 gallons of clear wash for the still.
A little more on an all barley mash. Corn is a bitch.
Thanks, I think I will be using just barley, corn isn't really a thing here. I want to make Irish whiskey and maybe a peaty scotch. Do you rinse the grains after squeezing to catch remaining sugar?
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Re: Whiskey first timer

Post by still_stirrin »

Grif wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 4:13 am...Do you rinse the grains after squeezing to catch remaining sugar?
“...remaining sugar...”

Are you fermenting “on the grain” or lautering your mash before you ferment? If the former, then rinsing the squeezings would water down your distiller’s beer and wash in proteins from the trub. Besides, if fermenting on the grain, and your ferment is done, all of the fermentable sugars will have been consumed, so there is no advantage to adding more water. It would complicate the distillation process with greater likelihood of a puke.

But if you’re lautering, which is how beers are made, by rinsing (sparging) the mash prior to transferring your wort to the fermenter, then of course you should rinse the grains to extract any residual sugars that might be there.

So, Grif, how do you do it?
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Re: Whiskey first timer

Post by Grif »

still_stirrin wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 4:51 am
Grif wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 4:13 am...Do you rinse the grains after squeezing to catch remaining sugar?
“...remaining sugar...”

Are you fermenting “on the grain” or lautering your mash before you ferment? If the former, then rinsing the squeezings would water down your distiller’s beer and wash in proteins from the trub. Besides, if fermenting on the grain, and your ferment is done, all of the fermentable sugars will have been consumed, so there is no advantage to adding more water. It would complicate the distillation process with greater likelihood of a puke.

But if you’re lautering, which is how beers are made, by rinsing (sparging) the mash prior to transferring your wort to the fermenter, then of course you should rinse the grains to extract any residual sugars that might be there.

So, Grif, how do you do it?
ss
Yep, that was a stupid question, still getting my head around this :lol: . Yes I was thinking of fermenting on the grain. But somehow associate squeezing the grains with lautering. Thanks :D
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Re: Whiskey first timer

Post by jonnys_spirit »

Typically ferment on-grain here, siphon off the clear beer as ferment nears completion to drop sediment in secondary fermenter and scoop grains into a 5 gallon fine mesh paint strainer bag and squeeze or press it in a mop wringer head... Let it all sit for a week or so then rack off sediment and run it!

Corn is typically too thick to lauter so if you;re doing barley you might consider lauter/sparge and ferment off-grain but on-grain and squeezing works too...

Cheers!
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Re: Whiskey first timer

Post by still_stirrin »

jonnys_spirit wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 8:47 am...Corn is typically too thick to lauter...
I suppose that is what most say, but not all. For the record, My bourbons are 50% corn and I always lauter. I’ve got a method that works for me, tricky but successful. I ferment in carboys (a throw back to years of home brewing), so a relatively clean wort is nice to have. Ferment is fast and clears relatively quickly (a week is typical).

I know I’m probably in the minority here, but it is my process. And I’m not so concerned about the “touch labor” involvement, as it is a hobby for me, just like my woodworking and speaker building. Time is invested and the product is the reward.

But....ymmv!
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Re: Whiskey first timer

Post by BlueSasquatch »

I ferment on the grain, running on the assumption that I'd rather not pull any potential sugar out of the fermentation vessel, by fermenting Off-Grain, considering Lautering a bit, since a beer maker I know is getting back into the swing of things, and that is standard beer process as Stirrin has said.

Currently I cook in an 8 gallon kettle, 10# grain and 5 gallons, then I transfer 80% of it to a 5-gallon bucket, remaining into a Slop bucket. Normally I'll be making a minimum of 10 gallons at a time, so I usually have enough over-flow to have a 3rd not-quite full bucket. (I've picked up some of those blue 10/13 gallon containers, have yet to use them but ideally it allows me to dump 100% of the kettle into one fermenter.

After 2 weeks, I take a fine-mesh bag that is something like 6 gallons, place it over an empty 5-gallon bucket, and then dump a fermented bucket, into this one, pull the bag, let it drain some, and then I use a mop-bucket to squeeze the rest of the liquid out of the grains, the end result is a rather dry clump of grain that I toss in the compost pile.

Im currently trying out just about every possible grain, frequently with a backbone of corn, so my fermentation seems to have grain at the bottom, at the top and sometimes still in the middle it seems.

I currently have a 6-gallon copper pot-still, propane heat, and haven't noticed a scorch just yet, even with some pretty cloudy wash. However I am working on a (stripping) keg-still that will be electric, not sure if that increases or lowers the odds of a scorch? I wouldn't mind distilling on the grain as well, to completely avoid any straining, the keg still has a keg thumper, doing some research on having water in the still, and mash in the thumper, see if that can't work for a stripping run, on the grain.

I'd say my least favorite part so far, is the straining of the grains.
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Re: Whiskey first timer

Post by Dr Griz »

still_stirrin wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 10:43 am I’ve got a method that works for me, tricky but successful.
I don’t know about y’all, but that sounds like the whole point of a hobby like this to me. I’ve been playing with corn for the last year just to find my own — every time it gets more successful. And maybe a bit more tricky, too...
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Re: Whiskey first timer

Post by dukethebeagle120 »

I steam strip with a thumper
Water in the boiler,grain and slop in the thumper
No straining,in she goes.
Makes for a quick clean process
its better to think like a fool but keep your mouth shut,then to open ur mouth and have it confirmed
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Re: Whiskey first timer

Post by dukethebeagle120 »

BlueSasquatch wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 7:31 am I ferment on the grain, running on the assumption that I'd rather not pull any potential sugar out of the fermentation vessel, by fermenting Off-Grain, considering Lautering a bit, since a beer maker I know is getting back into the swing of things, and that is standard beer process as Stirrin has said.

Currently I cook in an 8 gallon kettle, 10# grain and 5 gallons, then I transfer 80% of it to a 5-gallon bucket, remaining into a Slop bucket. Normally I'll be making a minimum of 10 gallons at a time, so I usually have enough over-flow to have a 3rd not-quite full bucket. (I've picked up some of those blue 10/13 gallon containers, have yet to use them but ideally it allows me to dump 100% of the kettle into one fermenter.

After 2 weeks, I take a fine-mesh bag that is something like 6 gallons, place it over an empty 5-gallon bucket, and then dump a fermented bucket, into this one, pull the bag, let it drain some, and then I use a mop-bucket to squeeze the rest of the liquid out of the grains, the end result is a rather dry clump of grain that I toss in the compost pile.

Im currently trying out just about every possible grain, frequently with a backbone of corn, so my fermentation seems to have grain at the bottom, at the top and sometimes still in the middle it seems.

I currently have a 6-gallon copper pot-still, propane heat, and haven't noticed a scorch just yet, even with some pretty cloudy wash. However I am working on a (stripping) keg-still that will be electric, not sure if that increases or lowers the odds of a scorch? I wouldn't mind distilling on the grain as well, to completely avoid any straining, the keg still has a keg thumper, doing some research on having water in the still, and mash in the thumper, see if that can't work for a stripping run, on the grain.

I'd say my least favorite part so far, is the straining of the grains.
The steam stripping route qill help you out alot
its better to think like a fool but keep your mouth shut,then to open ur mouth and have it confirmed
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