Fumbled my Mash

Production methods from starch to sugars.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
User avatar
BlueSasquatch
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:00 am
Location: Midwest

Fumbled my Mash

Post by BlueSasquatch »

Start of the month 6/1 and I cooked two mashes

Scotch
80% 2-Row, 20% Peated Malt

Oatmeal
40% Oat Malt, 40% Golden Naked Oats - Simpsons, 20% 2-Row

Both mashes took 5 gallons of water, heated up to 160 before adding the grains, stirring for 20 minutes or so, and then dumped into a 5-gallon bucket, with a lid (3/8" hole w/grommet for airlock, but with no airlock, just open to atmosphere.) and they sat outside for probably 10 hours, until the next morning, when the temps were right at 85-95, I dumped them back and forth between two buckets, pitched yeast, airlock, stuck them in the closet (I ferment on-grain), I use a stairway/center closet in the house as a fermenting room. It also houses a 3D printer, so the temp seems to often stay at that 80-85 range.

SG of the Scotch was 1.07 which is my highest SG for all grain yet.
SG of the Oatmeal was 1.035 which seems to be common for my Oatmeal whiskeys.

Yesterday on 6/13 I decided to strain the grain, test the gravity and see about cold-crashing to try and clear up the wash, having read some people claiming a superior end-result from running only clear, I tend to always filter but run a pretty muddy wash in my pot still (propane) and haven't had issues. Also working on a rig to steam-distill, ON grain, which I have also read, provides a superior end-result.

Well first thing I notice is a puke smell, the wife and kids also noticed and complained the rest of the day. I thought it was medium to mild in strength of smell, the wash tasted sour but neither the taste nor the smell was overwhelming to me. Last year I did a large 8 bucket run with five different grains to try and get a end-product to compare between one another, and this same smell occurred then, and never followed through enough for me to notice in the final product, but I suppose others may have been able to tell still. All four buckets also had formed a pretty solid layer of grain, that had become a darker/grey color compared to the still wet/submerged grain.

Back then I thought it had to do with not sanitizing things well enough and have done a more rigorous process ever since, so I think I can mark that as not being the culprit. I also thought it was just perhaps how a specific grain smelled, since it was the wheat/rye last time, but this time it was the Scotch.

After straining the grain, I noticed the FG of the Oatmeal was just a tick mark from reading 1.000 while the Scotch was still at 1.03 which is the first time I've had anything "finish" after two weeks, at anything but 1.00 or lower.

So we have a scotch wash that didn't finish, that smells like puke. This was really only 1 of the 4 buckets, but the smell was strong enough, that you didn't really smell much of anything else, the other three buckets maybe had faint traces of a similar smell? I couldn't tell you, I thought they smelled very much like CO2 and grain, but the smell of the day was already established.

Perhaps the 10 hours of cooling outside, in the summer weather was just to long, and bacteria had established itself already?
A single 5-gallon bucket does not have enough head space, when 100% of the mash is added, hence splitting it into two buckets, would two half-full buckets leave to much head-space? Would that matter?

To make things worse, I became mixed around while straining the grain, didn't read my labels close enough and ended up mixing the wrong buckets. So instead of 5-gallon wash of Scotch and 5-gallon wash of Oatmeal, I now have 10 gallons of Smoky-Oatmeal Wash?

I never not-finish a mash all the way through, even scorched corn with a terrible burnt smell, I've ran twice through the still to have a drinkable product after being Oaked. Maybe my taste isn't as refined as most. Anyways, since the last time I had this smell, the final product was fine, I'll still be distilling this twice and tossing in some oak.

However the "stalled" yeast concerned me, so I checked the PH of the buckets, after doing some reading about puke, and bacteria, and they both read around 3.25-3.5 further reading suggests 5.0-5.5 PH as the ideal range, so I added baking soda until they read at 5.25 and then I tossed in another 10 grams of yeast, and sealed it back up. My plan is to wait a week, test the FG and see if the smell has subsided any, and then cold-crash it in the freezer for a spell, to see how clear I can get it, siphon off the clear and run it.

I was quite looking forward to a scotch, bit miffed about mixing the two, but who knows, could be a good drink at the end of the road.
"In the silence of the study one can discuss theories, but only in practice one becomes an artist" - Meunier
NormandieStill
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1715
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:17 pm
Location: Northwest France

Re: Fumbled my Mash

Post by NormandieStill »

The puke smell is butyric acid. I seem to have the same reduced sensitivity to it that you have. My wife and kids complained thoroughly when my first attempt at HBB went awry. If the amounts are low enough, it would seem that maintaining a low pH (highly acidic) environment and heating it very slowly to temp when stripping will help it transform into a funky pineapple ester. Personally my wash finished up on the compost heap. I do my distilling in the house and will do so for a while so I didn't want to cause too many waves by making the house smell of hot puke for several days!
"I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway" - Jimbo

A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
User avatar
BlueSasquatch
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:00 am
Location: Midwest

Re: Fumbled my Mash

Post by BlueSasquatch »

NormandieStill wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:17 am The puke smell is butyric acid. I seem to have the same reduced sensitivity to it that you have. My wife and kids complained thoroughly when my first attempt at HBB went awry. If the amounts are low enough, it would seem that maintaining a low pH (highly acidic) environment and heating it very slowly to temp when stripping will help it transform into a funky pineapple ester. Personally my wash finished up on the compost heap. I do my distilling in the house and will do so for a while so I didn't want to cause too many waves by making the house smell of hot puke for several days!
I didn't use corn in my mash bill, but here is a thread about a similar smelling goal, however they say the smell goes away thanks to bacteria #3 which I would like to know, how to get that, to apply to the puke ferment, assuming the #2 bacteria is the smae (Butyric Acid)
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 3#p7671473

And this thread on Latic Souring
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 625lM4jRoI
They mention a book, which you can download for free ad a PDF online.

Anyways all that to say, I don't think the puke smell is a death sentence, I've had it before and ended with a fine product, I didn't notice the smell during distilling either, but I could be nose-blind, which is interesting to think about since I rarely seem to pick up on those "subtle" undertones everyone goes on about with booze. Maybe that's for the best if Im drinking my own stuff.
"In the silence of the study one can discuss theories, but only in practice one becomes an artist" - Meunier
User avatar
BlueSasquatch
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:00 am
Location: Midwest

Re: Fumbled my Mash

Post by BlueSasquatch »

Well, couple days later, didn't notice any bubbling in the airlocks, decided to pop the top, only one of them smells anymore and rather faintly. I did get a good sniff of CO2 that burned me a bit, so I'd say the yeast I re-added, has survived and is working on converting the last of the sugars.

I will siphon the wash this weekend, and cold crash for a day maybe, distilling by Sunday perhaps.
"In the silence of the study one can discuss theories, but only in practice one becomes an artist" - Meunier
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9647
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Fumbled my Mash

Post by Saltbush Bill »

BlueSasquatch wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:49 am didn't notice any bubbling in the airlocks,
Big mistake relying on an airlock to tell you if something is fermenting, one small leak at lid or airlock fitting and no bubbles.
Taste, your ears and eyes are your friends here ,,,,,look and listen to the surface of the wash and stick a finger in for a taste.
User avatar
SmokyMtn
Rumrunner
Posts: 566
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:02 pm

Re: Fumbled my Mash

Post by SmokyMtn »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:55 pm
BlueSasquatch wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:49 am didn't notice any bubbling in the airlocks,
Taste, your ears and eyes are your friends here ,,,,,look and listen to the surface of the wash and stick a finger in for a taste.
Words to live by
My 9" Shotgun Condenser


This hobby really is not so much about making alcohol. But bottling opportunities to make memories with Friends and Family.
User avatar
BlueSasquatch
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:00 am
Location: Midwest

Re: Fumbled my Mash

Post by BlueSasquatch »

Sitting for another week, siphoned 95% of the buckets, had some trub/sediment on the bottom, mud-like consistency, normally that just gets all mixed up once I pull the solids, and ran through the still. Attempting to CLEAR the wash, so I left that behind. Then I put them in the fridge for 24 hours in an attempt to cold-crash. Maybe It just wasn't cold enough, for long enough, but after 24 hours, I did not find that much dropped out of suspension, maybe 2% so I left that behind.

Smell still faintly there, not for me, but for the family I guess. But the wife is pregnant and has a nose like a blood hound right now.

Ran two stripping runs and 1 spirit run. The first stripping run, I had my fore-shots come out clear and then it just started puking on me. Two times while I throttled the heat back down, not sure if it was due to be 95 degrees in my shop or what, but I had the propane burner just a touch above off, there's a point near-off where the flames stop being 100% blue and have some orange in them, had to dial it back to there, with the flames just licking the bottom, for it to not puke on me. Some of the slowest runs I've had. Noticed when I popped the top and tossed the puke back in, that it was foaming pretty good.

This is with a 6 gallon kentucky pot-still. I've never had an issue with puking on such low heat. Oats and Barley, I knew Rye was supposed to foam hard, but didn't think this would.

Anyways I suspect opening up and tossing the puke back in, 3x lead to much of my heads and hearts escaping, as my yield for 5 gallons of mash was only something like 1/2 gallon of 30%

2nd bucket went fine as I didn't try to slowly increase the heat past the amount I knew wouldn't puke.

Spirit run was perhaps a bit on the fast side, had been in the shop most of the day and needed to wrap things up, ended up with 1.25-1.5 gallons of 40% tossed back in, ended up with 2 fifths of 70% and 1 fifth of heads/tails that I added to my slop-bucket as I call it. Which is close to 6 gallons by now, need to run that someday.

I'm calling it Oatmeal Scotch, despite not legally being Scotch, more like a Whiskey 50/50 Oatmeal and Barley, but the intent was two separate drinks before I fumbled.

I know most of the flavor comes from aging, but Im always surprised how similar all the white-dog for any grains I run, are. I've done all-grain at a minimum of 50% to 100% for Barley, Oat, Wheat, Corn, Rye, Triticale.
"In the silence of the study one can discuss theories, but only in practice one becomes an artist" - Meunier
Superxsive
Novice
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:46 am

Re: Fumbled my Mash

Post by Superxsive »

For the puking I tossed in a few tablespoons of liquid coconut oil and the puking stopped completely with my all grain "scotch". I would have had to run it at 40% power if I didn't. I didn't notice any hint of it during the 2 stripping runs I did this week. I ran 9 gallons in a 15.5 gallon keg.
User avatar
BlueSasquatch
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:00 am
Location: Midwest

Re: Fumbled my Mash

Post by BlueSasquatch »

Superxsive wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:00 pm For the puking I tossed in a few tablespoons of liquid coconut oil and the puking stopped completely with my all grain "scotch". I would have had to run it at 40% power if I didn't. I didn't notice any hint of it during the 2 stripping runs I did this week. I ran 9 gallons in a 15.5 gallon keg.
I was wondering if it had to do with the high amounts of Barley, Rye is supposed to give alot of foaming issues. Didn't know coconut oil would help with that, affect the end flavor at all?
"In the silence of the study one can discuss theories, but only in practice one becomes an artist" - Meunier
User avatar
Hambone
Rumrunner
Posts: 509
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:24 am
Location: MO, just around the bend...

Re: Fumbled my Mash

Post by Hambone »

BlueSasquatch wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:42 am
Superxsive wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:00 pm Didn't know coconut oil would help with that, affect the end flavor at all?
Nope. Makes the pot smell nice when you’re done…
Good judgement is the result of experience.

Experience is usually the result of bad judgement..
Post Reply