Where I made a mistake ?

Production methods from starch to sugars.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
levaninep
Novice
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:34 am

Where I made a mistake ?

Post by levaninep »

I did a mash : 5 kg corn + 1 kg barley + 25 liters water. (alfa + gluco amylase with their tempeatures). + 10 gram bakery yeasts. Babo was at start 11%. in 5 days it was 0%. started run yeld was 2 literes 30% ABV.

I expected more alcohol, where I didi a mistake ?
User avatar
zed255
Distiller
Posts: 1021
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:06 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Where I made a mistake ?

Post by zed255 »

Missing much detail, but did you fully gelatinize your corn? Was the corn not ground fine enough?
----------
Zed

When the Student is ready, the Master will appear.
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
levaninep
Novice
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:34 am

Re: Where I made a mistake ?

Post by levaninep »

Yes corn was grounded well... 11% Babo is low before fermentation ?
Setsumi
Distiller
Posts: 1367
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:23 pm
Location: Central South Africa

Re: Where I made a mistake ?

Post by Setsumi »

I am not familiar with the term Babo, i guess it is potensial alchohol. A better measure would be SG in specific gravity, brix or plato. Then a description of your still and energy management would help.
My first flute
My press
My twins
My controller
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?
levaninep
Novice
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:34 am

Re: Where I made a mistake ?

Post by levaninep »

Yes it is Brix, I have a 25 liter column still, for first run I used one theoritical cooper plate
Setsumi
Distiller
Posts: 1367
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:23 pm
Location: Central South Africa

Re: Where I made a mistake ?

Post by Setsumi »

levaninep wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:47 am Yes it is Brix, I have a 25 liter column still, for first run I used one theoritical cooper plate
Ok in brix 11% potential alcohol would be around 19 deg at correct temp? Brix will read high at warm temps and solids. Was it a hydrometer or refractometer? Are you sure all starches were converted? I suppose if you used enzymes it would have converted.

So in your 11% 25lt charge there were 2.7lt 100% alc. You recovered with a column that theoretically should have given you a double distalation only 2lt at 30%.

The only way that could happen is if you had a serious vapour leak... but that you would have smelled and seen.
My first flute
My press
My twins
My controller
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?
Iulistoi
Bootlegger
Posts: 112
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:19 am
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: Where I made a mistake ?

Post by Iulistoi »

Describe all the mashing process. How did you cooked your corn? Most probably, much of the the corn starch doesn't gelatinised. What kind of corn did you used? cracked, whole, cornmeal for instant polenta?

Your yield should have been around 2.4 liters absolute alcohol or 8 liters of 30% ABV.
User avatar
Bushman
Admin
Posts: 17975
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:29 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Where I made a mistake ?

Post by Bushman »

It looks like your proportions are good as mentioned without more detail it’s hard to say. I would have to go back mentally and do a conversion from bricks to SG but 11% as mentioned seems low for Babo (a new term to add to my list).
Setsumi
Distiller
Posts: 1367
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:23 pm
Location: Central South Africa

Re: Where I made a mistake ?

Post by Setsumi »

I just realised that Bushman may be more correct. The 11% is probably 11 deg Brix... that is only 5 to 6% potential alc or <1.5lt 100%... not that it explains the volume reported but it makes it less extreme?
My first flute
My press
My twins
My controller
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?
User avatar
Demy
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3072
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:45 pm

Re: Where I made a mistake ?

Post by Demy »

The Babo degree is used as a measure for the sugar level of wines, it is often used here in Italy (now also the brix is ​​used). Ten brix will correspond to approximately 8.6 Babo.
User avatar
still_stirrin
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10329
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:01 am
Location: where the buffalo roam, and the deer & antelope play

Re: Where I made a mistake ?

Post by still_stirrin »

FYI:
Scale of Klosterneuburger Mostwaage (°KMW, °Kl) has been created in 1861 by Austrian aristocrat Baron August Wilhelm von Babo (that is why this scale is sometimes called as Babo scale). It indicates how many kilograms of sugar contain 100 kilograms of grape must. It is based on Balling scale but it also calculate with the influence of non-sugars (insoluble solid parts in the fruit juice).
From the calculators:
11 *KMW (Babo scale) = 12.9 Brix = SG 1.052 = 6.9%ABV

So, given your process and the fact that you’re just learning to convert corn starch, I’d say you did a good job at saccharification. You can do better, but that is quite respectable for an early effort.
ss
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
levaninep
Novice
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:34 am

Re: Where I made a mistake ?

Post by levaninep »

Iulistoi wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:23 am Describe all the mashing process. How did you cooked your corn? Most probably, much of the the corn starch doesn't gelatinised. What kind of corn did you used? cracked, whole, cornmeal for instant polenta?

Your yield should have been around 2.4 liters absolute alcohol or 8 liters of 30% ABV.

So, I put 5 kg Cracked corn + 1 kg cracked barley, in 15 liter water, added afla amyase 6 grams and heated up to 75 Degree celsius, than add glycoamylase 18 grams and chilled for 2 hours, in every 30 minutes i stired it. After two hours added 10 liters cold water, to drop mash temperature up to 25 celisus. Babo was 11%, Potential alcohol was 6%. and I think this is too small capacity, for 6 kg grains.

and added 10 grams activated bakers yeast.

Yeasts I activated with water and sugar before adding to mash.
levaninep
Novice
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:34 am

Re: Where I made a mistake ?

Post by levaninep »

still_stirrin wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:16 pm FYI:
Scale of Klosterneuburger Mostwaage (°KMW, °Kl) has been created in 1861 by Austrian aristocrat Baron August Wilhelm von Babo (that is why this scale is sometimes called as Babo scale). It indicates how many kilograms of sugar contain 100 kilograms of grape must. It is based on Balling scale but it also calculate with the influence of non-sugars (insoluble solid parts in the fruit juice).
From the calculators:
11 *KMW (Babo scale) = 12.9 Brix = SG 1.052 = 6.9%ABV

So, given your process and the fact that you’re just learning to convert corn starch, I’d say you did a good job at saccharification. You can do better, but that is quite respectable for an early effort.
ss
Yes, potential alcohol was 6.9%, (according to 11KMW) so it should be 1725 grams 100% alcohol. But I how only 750 grams (100%) acohol.
levaninep
Novice
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:34 am

Re: Where I made a mistake ?

Post by levaninep »

243739661_543699790259357_290751980999055566_n.jpg
This is my still.

At first run I put one copper Theoritical plate.
howie
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 620
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:34 am

Re: Where I made a mistake ?

Post by howie »

if conversion is ok.....
is 10gms of bakers yeast enough for 25l wash?
is bakers yeast the best type for corn?
curious, so just askin'
bluc
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 437
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:32 am

Re: Where I made a mistake ?

Post by bluc »

My money is on a leak or you ran to hard and pushed tails through, which made you think run was over. Do you know what collection rate was? Did you just do a single pass?
bluc
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 437
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:32 am

Re: Where I made a mistake ?

Post by bluc »

What % did you finish at?
levaninep
Novice
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:34 am

Re: Where I made a mistake ?

Post by levaninep »

bluc wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:06 pm My money is on a leak or you ran to hard and pushed tails through, which made you think run was over. Do you know what collection rate was? Did you just do a single pass?

I stopped collecting when ABV was 10%
Iulistoi
Bootlegger
Posts: 112
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:19 am
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: Where I made a mistake ?

Post by Iulistoi »

levaninep wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:04 am
Iulistoi wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:23 am Describe all the mashing process. How did you cooked your corn? Most probably, much of the the corn starch doesn't gelatinised. What kind of corn did you used? cracked, whole, cornmeal for instant polenta?

Your yield should have been around 2.4 liters absolute alcohol or 8 liters of 30% ABV.

So, I put 5 kg Cracked corn + 1 kg cracked barley, in 15 liter water, added afla amyase 6 grams and heated up to 75 Degree celsius, than add glycoamylase 18 grams and chilled for 2 hours, in every 30 minutes i stired it. After two hours added 10 liters cold water, to drop mash temperature up to 25 celisus. Babo was 11%, Potential alcohol was 6%. and I think this is too small capacity, for 6 kg grains.

and added 10 grams activated bakers yeast.

Yeasts I activated with water and sugar before adding to mash.
Next time bring water to boil, add cracked corn + barley while stirring with a paint mixer mounted to a drill machine, add a little alpha for preliquefaction, continue heating while stirring with a big spoon and keep on boiling until there is no hard bits of corn. Depending on how coarse are cracked your grains, it needs to be boiled between 10 minutes to 1 hour. Then let it cool, add a little more alpha to the temperature written on the label, stirr, rest for 90 minutes, cool, add gluco respecting temperature, stirr, rest if you want, cool to pitch temp and add yeast.

If using malted barley or malt for saccharification, you are not allowed to boil the malt because you denaturate the enzymes and they will no longer hydrolise the starch molecules to produce sugars. Mashing using malt is different than with enzymes. Mashing with unmalted grains is different than mashing using only malt. So there is a lot to talk. Step by step you will learn, but you have to read a lot.
User avatar
EricTheRed
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1106
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:49 pm
Location: South Africa

Re: Where I made a mistake ?

Post by EricTheRed »

A year ago i started a Strawberry wine, with the fruit in the 25L mash tub. Left 3" head space. Not enough. The bubbler blocked up and the pressure blew the lid off the pail. It puked all over the floor, side of the couch, carpet, everything. A real sticky mess to clean up. Mrs was not impressed.
Strawberry is aggressive during the first phase of the ferment - lesson learned
Now i do it in a 50L and leave 6" head space, and don't seal the lid on tight! :D
My fekking eyes are bleeding! Installed BS Filters - better! :D
Life has gotten interesting!
Post Reply