my first all grain mash - suggestions?

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joschi
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my first all grain mash - suggestions?

Post by joschi »

Hy

so, after some tried + true recipes, i finally startet with all grain:

here's what i did:
2.5 Kg Pale ale Malt mixed with 6.5 liters of hot 63 Celsius Water, some drops Amylase (says GA500, don't know if it's alfa or beta or what?)
let rest for about 1.5 hours with stirrig every 10-15 Minutes
i did not heat a lot meanwile, so temperatur went down (mistake?)
separated the water (worth) with brew bag and heatet the malt with new water to about 90 Celsius for a short wile, let cool down, but both worth together,
OG was 1.060 BUT at temp. about 37° Celsius (how much would that be corrected? i think that would be high for my first mash?)
PH was about 6 (strips), so i put in some calcium sulfate, about 3 teaspoons, PH din't change much
put one block (25 grams?) backers yeast in it (rehidrated and feed with a bit of worth) - ready - when i was checking after 1 hour it was bubblig like crazy
But after 2 days already, it stopped, i whas shaking the fermenter, so it was bubbling a bit more, but not much.
after 3-4 day, i checked gravity, it was 0 (1000)
i put the fermenter in the basement, temp. about 7 deg. Celsius, after 2 weeks, it looked and smelled like a dark beer without gas - not bad.
Yesterday, i made a stripping run in my pot still, from 5 liters worth, i got about 1 liter, started with about 45 per cent and i stripped to about 15 per cent,
for me, i think that would be ok for a first mash, but not optimum. measuring is worthless i guess, i had some foaming at the beginning (tossed away) but i kept a bit of the cloudy stuff
it's got a strong smell from the malt, is that normal? I will strip the rest of the worth, but then i have to start another mash with the other 2.5 kg of my 5 kg Malt, so i will get about 4-5 liters for my spirit run.

Questions for next time:
i will mix my water with distilled/osmosis (i get it for free :D ) water 50/50 to get PH down, ok?
i will reheat the worth so it stays within 63 degres Celsius for 1 - 1.5 hour
then reheat the malt with fresh water? to 80, or what temp.? how long?
can the calcium sulfate have an impact on the taste? hope i can leave it away.
was it too much yeast? (I don't think so, but.... )
any other suggestions?

sorry for the long tread,
joschi
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Re: my first all grain mash - suggestions?

Post by NormandieStill »

Some notes, other will probably chime in with more:

- When mashing in grains you generally want your water to be hotter than your target temperature so that when you add the grains and it cools down, you end up where you need to be. This is usually around 76C but you can check with an online calculator like the one at Brewer's Friend. You're looking for "strike water temperature".

- Better to wrap up your mash tun (container in which you mash) with some towels or a blanket to insulate it, than try to heat it to maintain temperature. Small volumes lose heat faster (My first attempts at AG were about the same size as yours and they cool really quickly. Try to use the smallest container you've got (Preferably, stainless steel, none of the standard "food-safe" buckets are rated for 40C+ for the hour or so required for mashing).

- Pale ale malt is already loaded with its own enzymes so you shouldn't need to add any. Get the mash temperature right and hold it for an hour or more and you'll get all the conversion you need.

- Only adjust the pH of your water if you know you need to. A little book of pH strips costs next to nothing and will let you see where you are (roughly). The grains will pull your pH down themselves so unless you have very alkaline water you should be OK.

- Strip to a total abv if you can (Strip into a big pot and keep going until the collected distillate is at the abv that your aiming for. For a flavoured spirit you probably want to be looking for somewhere in the 25-35% range.

- Anything with sulphur in you probably want to keep out of your wash. Avoid camden tablets (metabisulphate) at all costs.

- 25g of baker's yeast is probably overpitching for a 6L wash. But it doesn't cost a lot, and that way you don't have to look after it much.

- If you get puking on your stripping run, don't chuck it out. It'll clear up when you do your spirit run.
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Re: my first all grain mash - suggestions?

Post by Ben »

Try preheating your mash vessel with some hot water, then insulate as above. You will want to stir hard and make sure you don't have any dough balls. Let it rest for 10 mins, stir again then check the temp. You want to start in the mid-high 140° range depending on how good your insulation is. Should drop to around 142 by the end of the mash, this just takes trial and error.

If you consistently see these high PH readings add some backset into the mash, start at 10% it should bring it down for you.

Your hydrometer should have come with a reference for the temp correction, use it to figure out where you need to be.

For your sparge step just drain it as best you can then soak and re-sparge (rinse) with water around 168°f, that keeps it below the temp where it should be astringent but will heat the grain enough to loosen the sugars up well. Google batch sparging BIAB to help with this step.

A small vial of tincture of iodine is inexpensive and will last for years, allowing you to starch test. Worth the investment.
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Re: my first all grain mash - suggestions?

Post by joschi »

Thanks for your answers.
I think i'm on the right track. As i mash in a big ss pot on the stove, i can just reheat so that the temp. stays where it should be. But i will look up the right strike temp., no problem/good advice.
Will play around with the water, we have very good clean tap water from the mountains, but it's very hard, so i will mix in some of the soft water.
And next time, i will buy some other malts, because i read somewhere, some malts bring down the ph more than others.
Will keep you informed how my next mash went, probably this weekend, if my wife let me use the kitchen hahaha

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Re: my first all grain mash - suggestions?

Post by Ben »

Specialty malts will contribute a lot of flavor in very small amounts so use sparingly. But malts like roasted barley do a lot for mash pH.

A little tube of pH strips is cheap and will answer a lot of questions.
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Re: my first all grain mash - suggestions?

Post by joschi »

hy
i did my second mash yesterday, with some improvement:
I added some osmosis water to bring PH down a bit, and didn't put calcium sulfate.
Mashed the grain in a big pot, this time, i kept the temperature at about 63 deg. C. for 1 hour
after that, sparged with fresh hot water.
Gravity 1.066 temp. correctet - is that a good yeald?? I think so.
it's bubbling very happy right now... mash is happy - i'm happy :-)
next time i will certanly do a bigger mash. I need this mob-squeezer thing!
Joschi
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Re: my first all grain mash - suggestions?

Post by NormandieStill »

Seems to be better, but the online calculators suggest that for 2.5kg Pale Ale in 6.5L of water, you should expect an SG of 1.094. You don't say how much water you used to sparge. If it was around 2.5L then you're about where you should expect to be. If it was less, you can still improve your efficiency. If it was a lot more then you hit it out of the park!

Mashing gets easier as you use larger volumes (up to a point, then the heavy lifting starts to become an issue) as the higher volume of water will hold it's temperature a lot more easily.

Make sure your grind is good. For Pale Ale malt you shouldn't need the enzymes.
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Re: my first all grain mash - suggestions?

Post by joschi »

i sparged with about 4 liters of fresh water, so then my mash was very good? (1.094 would be to high for the yeast?? or just add more water after mashing to get OG down?)

forgot to mention: no amylase added this time.
The malt was already grindet, it's from a brewers shop, they grind it for beer making, maybe a bit coarse, but obviously ok for my needs.

btw: is it really normal to "finish" fermentation in less than 2 days? of course, i will let it clear for some more time, but bubbling has almost stopped.. (bakers yeast, temperature about 25 C.)

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Re: my first all grain mash - suggestions?

Post by NormandieStill »

4 litres of sparge water would put your efficiency at around the 90% mark so yeah... pretty damn good!

It's unlikely to be finished after 2 days. Put your ear to the fermenter, you should still hear it fizzing (popping sounds). Don't go what's going on in the airlock.
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Re: my first all grain mash - suggestions?

Post by still_stirrin »

joschi,

Activity will slow as SG falls in the ferment, making it asymptotic to finish.

Here:
B58BC267-1C17-4E66-B5E2-35B7D2CB1113.jpeg
Two to 5 days is the active “Krausen” phase. You’ll measure the specific gravity change a lot and fast during this period. But let it finish and “clear” when the yeast will flocculate and settle to the bottom. This can take several weeks, so don’t get too anxious to run it.
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Re: my first all grain mash - suggestions?

Post by joschi »

Ok, thank you very much again. 90% sounds pretty fine to me.
no worrys about me rushing, i will wait a few days more in the warm place, then will move the fermenter to the cold basement and let it clear for min. 2 weeks (like last time).

All grain is quite some work, but also a lot of fun.... can't wait for the finished whiskey, oh wait, for calling it whiskey, it takes 3 years and 1 day ... i doubt it will last that long. Need a bigger still.... (shoppinglist: mopwringer, bigger still, .... Santa, where are you? )
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Re: my first all grain mash - suggestions?

Post by joschi »

little update:
i did my spirit run at the end of the year. At first, i didn't like the final product very well, i could smell the malt of course, but also some taste that reminds me of green grass. Now after 2 weeks, it starts smelling better. Yes i did some cuts, have it now in several different bottles. I know i will have to wait much longer.

Experimenting with some wood cubes 2x2x2 cm, from used barrels.
Question: should i retoast these cubes? or is this not necessary as they are from used barrels? i think i will sand them and then retoast, and some i will charr. I read already the hole "aging the T-Pee way", very interesting!
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