Low abv.

Production methods from starch to sugars.

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Tresguey
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Low abv.

Post by Tresguey »

My third attempt fermenting for distillation. Sugar wash where I tried my hand at inverting the sugar. 12 lbs of sugar I used 1 and a half gallons of water with from what I remember 40 grams of citric acid. I used an online chart. I simmered the mixture for just over 30 minutes.

Dropped it in my fermenter and added 4.5 gallons of cold water to get me to pitching temperature. I added my 5.2 PH buffer powder and about 4 tablespoons of tomato paste. I used turbo yeast, I bought it before I started researching online and didn’t want to waste it. I figured adding the tomato paste wouldn’t hurt, might help…maybe?

Fermentation went off within 20 minutes… crazy how fast, I’ve been brewing beer for over 20 years, make starters regularly. Never goes off that fast.

Airlock stopped moving at about day 5. Today is day 7. So I pulled a sample, dropped in my hydrometer and it sat at about 0.98. Awesome, figured it can sit in the fermenter until Saturday and I would distill it. Just for the heck of it I dropped my alcometer in to see where it was at. 4% was what it read. And no, I didn’t take an OG reading…completely forgot to. I don’t understand what happened.
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Re: Low abv.

Post by Sporacle »

" you can pick your nose and you can pick your friends; but you can't always wipe your friends off on your saddle" sage advice from Kinky Friedman
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corene1
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Re: Low abv.

Post by corene1 »

The good thing is sugar is pretty dependable wit specific gravity readings. Typically you will get 1.046 points per pound of sugar in 1 gallon of water. You had 2 pounds per gallon so I would bet starting gravity was about1.092 so figure about a 12% ABV wash .
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Stonecutter
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Re: Low abv.

Post by Stonecutter »

Tresguey wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 7:17 pm
Airlock stopped moving at about day 5. Today is day 7. So I pulled a sample, dropped in my hydrometer and it sat at about 0.98. Awesome, figured it can sit in the fermenter until Saturday and I would distill it. Just for the heck of it I dropped my alcometer in to see where it was at. 4% was what it read. And no, I didn’t take an OG reading…completely forgot to. I don’t understand what happened.
So did you distill this wash? If not there isn’t any point in dropping an alcometer into your wash.
You didn’t take an OG reading so there’s also no point in worrying about what any of your meters are reading.
You say you’ve brewed beer before but have you ever made any “hard seltzer” or sugar wash? Most members here are going to suggest you use a tried and true recipe. Those recipes are there especially for novice distillers to begin to hone their processes.
There is a lot of info missing and it seems you got sloppy this time. I suggest you chalk it up to a learning curve and try again.
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Stonecutter
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Re: Low abv.

Post by Stonecutter »

I forgot to mention that you should definitely run it. I’m sure, as Corene1 pointed out, that you’ve got plenty of still-able product in your fermenter.
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
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Demy
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Re: Low abv.

Post by Demy »

The error is in the instrument, as said by others .. the alcohol meter will not give the right measurement because it is calibrated for ethyl alcohol (and water), If you had measured the OG it would be simple but you can easily go back to the value of Og (as they have others explained) this is because there is no "efficiency" factor like a mash of cereals
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Re: Low abv.

Post by jonnys_spirit »

Once you strip it (all the way till 0%abv out of the PC) you can use the P&T hydrometer to use abv and low wines volume to extrapolate the abv of the ferment if you record your wash volume.

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Tresguey
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Re: Low abv.

Post by Tresguey »

Ok, Now I get it. The meter is calibrated to ethyl alcohol. And the only reason why I tried to test it was because I forgot to take an OG. I was just wondering where it ended up at. Never used an proof and trailes hydrometer before, never had the need.

One thing I do have to say is this wash smells much better than the previous 2 where I didn't invert the sugar.

I think I am going to buy some Angel yellow flag and some Red Star dady to experiment with. See which I like better.
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Re: Low abv.

Post by Stonecutter »

Tresguey wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:10 am Ok, Now I get it. The meter is calibrated to ethyl alcohol. And the only reason why I tried to test it was because I forgot to take an OG. I was just wondering where it ended up at. Never used an proof and trailes hydrometer before, never had the need.

One thing I do have to say is this wash smells much better than the previous 2 where I didn't invert the sugar.

I think I am going to buy some Angel yellow flag and some Red Star dady to experiment with. See which I like better.
:thumbup: I’ve never used the Angel yeast but I’d be up for trying it out. Keep the updates comin’. Interested to see how it turns out for you.
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Re: Low abv.

Post by still_stirrin »

Tresguey wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:10 am… I think I am going to buy some Angel yellow flag and some Red Star dady to experiment with. See which I like better.
If you’re just making a sugar wash, the Angel yellow label or even Red Star distiller’s (DADY) yeast are expensive solutions. Regular Baker’s yeast from your local grocery store in the baking aisle should work just fine and save you some money.

The Angel yeast has enzymes included which helps reduce starches within your fermenter. For a simple sugar wash that (starch conversion) is completely unnecessary as the sugars (especially if inverted) are already readily available to the yeast cells for metabolism. However, additional nutrients are needed, such as nitrogen, phosphorus, and magnesium, as they help with the yeast’s metabolism (life cycle).

Red Star DADY yeast has a higher alcohol tolerance and is formulated for a vigorous start. It will ferment quickly and finish dry, consuming the fermentable sugars. But the DADY yeast favors more complex sugars created from cereal grain mashes. It will work with a simple sugar wash, again with added nutrients, but is a more expensive solution than the inexpensive Baker’s yeast from your grocery store.

One caveat for Baker’s yeast, however, is that it prefers a warmer environment (think about when your mother baked bread and she would set the bowl of bread dough on top of the warm oven to rise). It (Baker’s yeast) will do very well if maintained around 80*F to 85*F (26*C to 30*C). So, you’ll need to manage the temperature of the fermenter to keep it warm if the ambient temperatures fluctuate significantly.

In conclusion, I would advise avoiding the use of any of the “Turbo” yeasts although they are advertised as aggressive “distiller’s” yeasts. Typically, Turbos include massive nutrient energizers which will feed the yeast to the point of violent activity. And they typically have a very high tolerance to alcohol due to the added “stuff” in the package. But, the activity rate and the added chemicals will contribute to massive congeners (off flavors) in your ferment. The Turbo yeasts, therefore are not recommended here because we’re trying to help you produce a superior consumable spirit, not “jet fuel”.

Good luck with what ever yeast you choose to experiment with. It all a part of your learning experience in this hobby.
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Tresguey
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Re: Low abv.

Post by Tresguey »

The reason why I was thinking Angel Yellow or Red Star Dady was because I will for sure start to ferment from grains. Figured it would be a natural, I already have plenty of all grain equipment for my beer making.
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Re: Low abv.

Post by still_stirrin »

Tresguey wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:49 am… I already have plenty of all grain equipment for my beer making.
Do you have a “brewer’s hydrometer”? If not, get one!

The Proof & Traille hydrometer is reserved for distilled spirits, which you’ve been advised already. This seems to be the misunderstanding that originated this thread.

But if you’re already an all-grain brewer, then you should know about amylase enzymes and their temperature and pH needs. However, when working with raw (or feed store “cracked”) corn, you do need to prepare the grain for mashing, which requires gelatinizing. If you’re using flaked corn, you don’t need to worry about gelatinizing it because the flaking process has already done that for you. Corn is a challenging cereal grain for hobby brewers, but we can manage it with effort.
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Re: Low abv.

Post by greggn »

> I used turbo yeast, I bought it before I started researching online and didn’t want to waste it.


I'm amazed at how often this is said.
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Tresguey
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Re: Low abv.

Post by Tresguey »

Yes, I do have a triple scale hydrometer and a refractometer. I have noticed a lot of talk of gelatinizing of non malted or raw grains. I am thinking I can use a Robobrew to do that.
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Re: Low abv.

Post by Tresguey »

Quick update…

Ran the wash yesterday using my Robobrew and T500. What I did do is run both 1000 watt and 500 watt elements to get the reflux column hot up until the midway point. Then I turned off 500 watt element. I figured that was the only way I can try to regulate power. Started the cooling water.

I tuned the water so that the output would variate between drops then a pencil stream. In my previous run I ran it by looking at the temp gauge on the column. Still spirits says 60c was a perfect temp and try not to go over 65. So that’s what I did before. It took forever to run.

I noticed how I had it tuned yesterday the gauge showed an average of 72c. It produced about 186 proof alcohol.

I did notice on my Robobrew that the element was varying power even though it was set to on all the time. I could hear it and even see the temp difference on the gage.

But overall the distillate tastes and smells ok, better than before by far. I’m going to try the TFFV recipe today.

Also received all the ferrules I need for my keg boiler. Just the beginning of the next level in my learning.
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