Do certain grains hold less liquid?

Production methods from starch to sugars.

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Ridgeback816
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Do certain grains hold less liquid?

Post by Ridgeback816 »

So my question for all the people who know considerably more than me is do certain grains hold more liquid? I am still fairly new at this hobby and I am on my 4th all grain mash. The others all have been some combination of rye wheat and barley with just a handful of oats mixed in. Things have been fairly consistent squeezing the grains to get the liquid out I normally have 14 gallons of water and 32 lbs of grain to which I get 12 gallon of cleared mash to run. I most recently read a thread on oats from tractor supply and figured I'd give it a shot. I mashed in 50lbs (the entire bag) with 21 gallons of water. I wish I could give details on the mash process but I broke my hydrometer and was flustered enough not to take notes. It did ferment dry down to 1.003 and after squeezing I only ended up with 15 gallons!?!? Is it normal for oats to hold more liquid than rye wheat and barley?I am looking for to other people's imput. I use an old cider press to squeeze my grains.
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Salt Must Flow
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Re: Do certain grains hold less liquid?

Post by Salt Must Flow »

Were these crimped oats? From all the pics I've seen, crimped oats are nearly entirely whole grain except slightly cracked. They are likely holding more mash in comparison to smaller bits from milled grains. You could potentially end up with less yield in the end due to less gelatinization & conversion happening too.

I can buy whole oats and have it milled for me at my local feed mill, but when they mill it, it's almost like flour.
Ridgeback816
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Re: Do certain grains hold less liquid?

Post by Ridgeback816 »

Yes they were crimped oats but I did run them through my grain mill to crack them a little more I was worried about going down to flour in fear of getting a block of glue. Depending on how this batch comes out I am considering toasting all the oats before mashing in but that will add another day to the process so I am sure the wife will absolutely love that
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Re: Do certain grains hold less liquid?

Post by OtisT »

I have only used small amounts of oats in various batches, so I can’t speak to that grain. I can share that from my own experience both Corn and Rye hold onto more liquid than barely or wheat. Both corn and rye require a lot more squeezing to get the juice out.
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Ben
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Re: Do certain grains hold less liquid?

Post by Ben »

I think you are well off to run the oats exactly like you did. Keeping the hulls mostly intact really helps with the squeeze or sparge.

What did you use for enzyme? The un-malted oats would have had none. Talk through the mashing process (gravity numbers aren't neccasary).

For your liquid to grain yield I think your fine. Oats are notoriously difficult (a bit like rye), they tend to glue up pretty good. You could try throwing some rice hulls in when you mash to lighten up the grain bed for the squeeze, or just rinse the squeezed grain and give it second squeeze. At least get yourself a full still charge that way. You aren't going to get alcohol yields out of oat like you would malt or corn.
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Re: Do certain grains hold less liquid?

Post by greggn »

Ridgeback816 wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 10:49 am
do certain grains hold more liquid?

Admittedly, not a fully-formed thought but ...

I suspect the starting percentage of starch that the grain contains has a lot to do with it. When I mash white rice, and strain the solids to ferment off-grain, the resultant is a light, fluffy mass that has almost no weight (nor water content). I think of it as almost "self-draining."
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Demy
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Re: Do certain grains hold less liquid?

Post by Demy »

Some cereals may retain more liquids, it is not necessary to toast oat (except if a particular flavor is required) if you have barley malt in the mix (which will give you good enzymatic power), alternatively you could think about making malt d 'oat, germinates well enough .... I buy full oat, it has a very thick and voluminous peel compared to barley so I have no filtration problems ... you might think about changing the type of oat. A big hello!
Ridgeback816
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Re: Do certain grains hold less liquid?

Post by Ridgeback816 »

Ben wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 4:25 am I think you are well off to run the oats exactly like you did. Keeping the hulls mostly intact really helps with the squeeze or sparge.

What did you use for enzyme? The un-malted oats would have had none. Talk through the mashing process (gravity numbers aren't neccasary).

For your liquid to grain yield I think your fine. Oats are notoriously difficult (a bit like rye), they tend to glue up pretty good. You could try throwing some rice hulls in when you mash to lighten up the grain bed for the squeeze, or just rinse the squeezed grain and give it second squeeze. At least get yourself a full still charge that way. You aren't going to get alcohol yields out of oat like you would malt or corn.
The mashing process I used was as follows I took all 50lbs of oats and I just covered them with water at about 6 gallons the I brought up 15 gallon to 160 degrees adding lemon juice to lower the ph I think it was a table soon per 5 gallons poured the hot water onto the grain stirred well and add powder alpha amylase covered for 60 minutes stirred well let temp drop to 125 and added beta amylase and let the temp drop to 95 took about 45 minutes and pitched Yellow label angel yeast because I am not terribly confident in all grain mash yet
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Ben
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Re: Do certain grains hold less liquid?

Post by Ben »

Interesting way to go about it. What made you decide to add the citric acid? Did you attempt an iodine test?
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Ridgeback816
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Re: Do certain grains hold less liquid?

Post by Ridgeback816 »

Ben wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 3:54 am Interesting way to go about it. What made you decide to add the citric acid? Did you attempt an iodine test?
I added the citric acid to lower the ph of my water it's just a little bit high. I prefer to add backset from a previous run but all i had was stuff from something had chocolate malt and coffee malt. I did to an iodine test I do it out of habit even though I was using angel yeast.
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