Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Production methods from starch to sugars.

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Shine_Dad
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Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by Shine_Dad »

Afternoon!

First time Masher, Long time Listener. ( Okay... enough of the bad jokes. )

So... First ever Mash was put together Saturday night.

12 gallons spring water
17lbs cracked corn
17lbs sugar

Warmed up the spring water to around 140 before throwing in all the sugar to mix it up.

Poured it into the food barrel with the 17lbs of corn.

Waited until it was below 95 ( It was around 88 ) before pitching in 2.5 tablespoons of Distillers Yeast.

Put the lid on it. Popped in the AirLock.

To be safe, added a garbage bag as a ring above and below the 'locking seal' on the container to make sure it was sealed.

It's been about 20 hours. I see air bubbles in the airlock, but i'm not seeing it actively 'bubble' yet.

Garage had an 'earthy' smell this morning... but the airlock wasn't actively bubbling.

Tasted great when we mixed it all up before sealing it.

How do I know if this bad boy is fermenting? Just leave it for 4-6 days and take a look at it? Hope for the best?

I know I could have checked PH level, etc., but the 'old timers' in the UJSSM thread keep bringing up the fact that you don't need to worry about Any of that considering how simple the mash bill is.

Any input on whether or not I should be concerned about if this mash is fermenting?

The UJSSM thread says you see see it within 12 hours. But this is a little more than twice the original 5 gallon bill he made when he suggested 12 hours for it to really start taking off.

Here is a picture of the airlock i'm using and my barrel.

Thank you !

Shine Dad / Will
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by dieselduo »

Your barrel probably has an air leak. Pop the top an see if there's a krausen
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by IAmPistolPete »

Did you get a starting gravity reading? It's the best way to track fermentation. Even if you didn't take one in the beginning, you can take one now and still be able to monitor progress. If you pop the top you should be able to stick your ear to the surface & hear the fizzing of an active ferment. Like a glass of ginger ale.
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by Saltbush Bill »

It's not a mash.....nothing has been mashed......it's a sugar head.
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by subbrew »

If you are getting an odor, then something is being pushed out of the barrel. If it smells good then chances are very high it yeast doing what they do. As said above, barrels often have small leaks around the lid, very hard to get a good seal. I would just leave it alone for 4 or 5 days and then test the gravity. If you didn't take a starting gravity and don't have a hydrometer A) get a hydrometer and B) give it a taste and see if it is still sweet. Sweet - it needs more time to finish fermenting. Not sweet and slightly tangy - yeast did there thing, give them a few more days to clean up and then run it. Or just run it. I like to let the yeast totally finish and settle out, but that is me.
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by Twisted Brick »

Patience, Will! You didn't do anything wrong and as long as your yeast is viable you're good to go. FYI- a great many members ferment without an airlock and use just a cover to keep beasties from flying in and contains the protective C02 in the fermenting vessel.

What Saltbush Bill refers to is that to call it a 'mash' one needs to convert grain starches to sugar. You aren't converting anything, relying on the sugar for your alcohol so it's referred to as 'wash'. Do save some backset from this batch's stripping run to add to your next UJ batch. You'll see a quantum improvement in your hooch.
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by Shine_Dad »

So I can use a standard ABV hydrometer on a 'sugar head' ? I thought that wasn't possible. - Ignore that question for now.

Are you all suggesting that I can Safely remove the lid from the barrel and see what it's doing, then replace it and it's not going to screw it all up by getting air inside? I thought a big part of putting an air lock in the top of the lid was to allow it to 'gas out' but also because you didn't want fresh oxygen being pulled in?

The word krausen (pronounced kroy-ZEN) describes the foamy head that develops on top of fermenting beer.

So I just learned a new word/definition. Look for it to be all foamy on the top. Thanks for that word of the day! :)

We put 3 rubber bands Above and Below the 'lid' with that garbage bag in the picture acting as a ring. So it should be sealed Air Tight. Before I cut the bottom out of the garbage bag, it had inflated... so clearly its moved out air, it just hasn't been 'super bubbly' in the air lock.

The smell I smelt this morning in the garage was a good smell. Like an earthy smell. Almost like you could smell the corn/sugar. It wasn't a bad smell.

I'm TRYING to force my self NOT to rush into this. But after 4-5 Months of taking my time sourcing my build together, I'm so eager to get this going and try my first run that I'm having a hard time not rushing it considering how close we are ( my wife, brother and I ) to finally running our first run.

Thank you to everyone who has been helpful during our build and the questions we've had. We are very grateful to all of you. Even the Grumpy ones! :)
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by Twisted Brick »

Shine_Dad wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 9:56 am
Are you all suggesting that I can Safely remove the lid from the barrel and see what it's doing, then replace it and it's not going to screw it all up by getting air inside?
Correct. Distilling is a bit different than brewing. Remember, as long as there are fermentables (in your case sugar), your yeast will continue to produce C02 and alcohol. Even if you temporarily remove/replace the lid, newly-emitted C02 will drive the oxygen from the headspace and replace it. C02 production will eventually slow until there is nothing left for the yeast to consume. It is recommended that ferments are not opened, looked at or stirred while the yeasts are working, but many of us fall short of this due to 'progress checks'.
Last edited by Twisted Brick on Tue May 24, 2022 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by subbrew »

Shine_Dad wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 9:56 am So I can use a standard ABV hydrometer on a 'sugar head' ? I thought that wasn't possible. - Ignore that question for now.

Sorry I was not clear. Two types of commonly used hydrometers, one for ABV which measures % alcohol in an aqueous solution and one for specific gravity which measures sugar in a water solution. I was referring to a specific gravity hydrometer. They are usually graduated in % potential alchohol, Brix and gravity points. For an unfermented was or mash you will see the starting gravity given in a measurement such as 1.063 or 15 brix. Gravity points are more commonly used for beer brewing and brix is more common in wine.
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by Salt Must Flow »

With my sugar washes, I usually see activity within 3-4 hrs using bakers yeast. I imagine you should be able to see activity/fizzing by today. Like said previously, you may just have an air leak so the airlock won't show you activity. I can't tell if you have a gasket and a clamp securing your lid.
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by Shine_Dad »

Salt Must Flow wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:39 am With my sugar washes, I usually see activity within 3-4 hrs using bakers yeast. I imagine you should be able to see activity/fizzing by today. Like said previously, you may just have an air leak so the airlock won't show you activity. I can't tell if you have a gasket and a clamp securing your lid.
It's a generic 14 gallon food grade barrel with a metal locking ring.

Since I was equally concerned that it was not going to be a perfectly sealed unit, we cut a garbage bag and made a plastic bag 'ring' basically, that we then put rubber bands on both above the locking lip, on the actual lid of the barrel, and below the locking ring, below the lid. This should be safe to consider this container sealed now in regards to the lid.

I've been at work all day, so I will check out the barrel when I get home to see if it is bubbling.

I will riskit the biscuit when I get home, pull the lid and take a picture of how it looks and update the post. It'll be about 3 hours before I can get home and get that picture uploaded.

I very much appreciate everyones feedback!
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by Shine_Dad »

Twisted Brick wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:02 am
Shine_Dad wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 9:56 am
Are you all suggesting that I can Safely remove the lid from the barrel and see what it's doing, then replace it and it's not going to screw it all up by getting air inside?
Correct. Distilling is a bit different than brewing. Remember, as long as there are fermentables (in your case sugar), your yeast will continue to produce C02 and alcohol. Even if you remove the lid, newly-emitted C02 will drive the oxygen from the headspace and replace it. C02 production will eventually slow until there is nothing left for the yeast to consume. It is recommended that ferments are not opened, looked at or stirred while the yeasts are working, but many of us fall short of this due to 'progress checks'.
Twisted - I very much appreciate the information you've provided for my post / request for help today.

I'll be updating it again when I get home and check it and take a picture.
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by NZChris »

Put your ear against it. If it's fermenting, you should be able to hear it.
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by Twisted Brick »

You're welcome, Will.
NZChris wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 2:57 pm Put your ear against it. If it's fermenting, you should be able to hear it.
+1

It will be trying to coax you into breaking into it: "Go ahead, Will, check me out! Open me up just a crack and see how hot I am! Do it! You know you want to!"

Don't listen to it. (says the guy who has put his stethoscope up to his keg fermenter and heard a yeast storm brewing inside). If you have a poly fermenter it'll be harder to hear tho.
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by Shine_Dad »

Twisted Brick wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 3:18 pm You're welcome, Will.
NZChris wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 2:57 pm Put your ear against it. If it's fermenting, you should be able to hear it.
+1

It will be trying to coax you into breaking into it: "Go ahead, Will, check me out! Open me up just a crack and see how hot I am! Do it! You know you want to!"

Don't listen to it. (says the guy who has put his stethoscope up to his keg fermenter and heard a yeast storm brewing inside). If you have a poly fermenter it'll be harder to hear tho.
Picture Incoming... I put my ear against it and as you described it was like a thunderstorm mixed with the sound of ocean waves... which means I HAD TO LOOK AT IT!!!!!!!
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Excellent......distilling need not be complicated though many try to make it seem that way.
Use your eyes, ears , taste , smell and your sence of touch .....they will all serve you well in this hobby.
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by Shine_Dad »

This thing is Yeastin like crazy. It was like f*cking lava rolling around in there!

This was our first time making a 'sugar wash/head?'

It is INCREDIBLY SATISFYING seeing that this thing is working and doing what it's supposed to be doing.

It almost guarantees that even if our first time running real alcohol on the still is a shit show of mistakes somehow, it's going to spit out some alcohol.

I started it Sunday at like Noon, so it should be plenty done to run Saturday morning I hope. That's giving it 6 days and I pitched probably around 2-3/4 tablespoons when it only called for around 2. I've read numerous times that you can't pitch too much yeast so I figured a little extra wouldn't hurt. And the UJSSM recipe says lets it go for 4-5 days.

So we also discovered that our 'generic blue plastic ferment barrel' is Not a tight seal when 'locked down' with the outside metal ring. As we removed rubber bands that we used to act as an additional redneck seal to the ring as a just in case, smell start pouring out LOL. The inside of the ring we made with the garbage bag was moist and smelled sweet like when you leave some cheap whiskey in a cup outside for a night. Makes sense now on why the airlock on the top only has like 'occasional air bubbles' versus that the container is letting it breath thru the lid not being sealed tightly.

This is super exciting. We're doing a final test after a modification to the condenser this week with water and vinegar, then we'll get it all prepped to run the juice on Saturday morning.

Appreciate all the feedback!

Anyone got a link to a thread about rolling into operating temperature on a propane burner? Heat control is my only fear when we run this first batch for the first time.

Also: Based on running 11 gallons of juice in my still for the first time, does a pint, somewhere around 450ml being tossed sound right as far as the fores?

Will
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Shine_Dad wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 5:20 pm It is INCREDIBLY SATISFYING seeing that this thing is working and doing what it's supposed to be doing.
That is why this and other recipes are in our Tried and True Recipe section ......THEY WORK! ......not like some of the other half arsed recipes that people bring here from outside sources. That's when we get the real "why isnt it working questions".
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by cob »

Shine_Dad wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 5:20 pm We're doing a final test after a modification to the condenser this week with water and vinegar,

then we'll get it all prepped to run the juice on Saturday morning.
is a complete cleaning protocol in order??
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by subbrew »

Are you planning a one and done or just a stripping run with additional stripping runs before a final spirit run? If you are doing a stripping run then heat control is not a big deal. Start a bit low and then once you get some convection currents by heating you can up the heat. The low start is just a precaution in case some yeast has settled and you don't want to scorch it. After that it is all the heat your condenser can handle and run until the total collected is about 28% abv or output at the spout is below 10%. 11 gallons should give about 3 gallon or a bit less of low wines at 28 to 30%.

Some run all the stripping run into a large container. I like to see how the still is performing so I collect 6 cups at a time. record power, time to collect 6 cups and then ABV of the output. It lets me see how the still is running, how abv drops as I go along and eventually how it starts to take longer to get my 6 cups unless I increase power, which if running a hard stripping run I can't do as I am already limited.

Being first run I would play a bit in the middle, say after 1 gallon is collected, trying to lower heat until the output is a fast drip or just a stream. Collecting a couple or three of smaller jars of that, a pint or less each, and test it. You should find it closer to 60% abv and tasting quite nice, a jar of hearts to keep from your first batch. It also helps you see what heat you will need for the spirit run.
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by NZChris »

"Also: Based on running 11 gallons of juice in my still for the first time, does a pint, somewhere around 450ml being tossed sound right as far as the fores?"
If you haven't done vinegar and sacrificial alcohol runs, drinking your product might have you sitting on the crapper barfing into a bucket. Have you cleaned your still properly?
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by Shine_Dad »

We run a water-only test run like two weeks ago to check for leaks.

Then we ran a water vinegar run last weekend as well to check for leaks considering at that point we had the entire still connected.

I was going to run a bit more of the water/vinegar that is left from the last test-run this week, then tear it all down and rinse everything out of it prior to fill up the still and thumper up on Saturday morning for this first real run.

Do I need to worry about anything else?
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

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subbrew wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 8:43 pm Are you planning a one and done or just a stripping run with additional stripping runs before a final spirit run? If you are doing a stripping run then heat control is not a big deal. Start a bit low and then once you get some convection currents by heating you can up the heat. The low start is just a precaution in case some yeast has settled and you don't want to scorch it. After that it is all the heat your condenser can handle and run until the total collected is about 28% abv or output at the spout is below 10%. 11 gallons should give about 3 gallon or a bit less of low wines at 28 to 30%.

Some run all the stripping run into a large container. I like to see how the still is performing so I collect 6 cups at a time. record power, time to collect 6 cups and then ABV of the output. It lets me see how the still is running, how abv drops as I go along and eventually how it starts to take longer to get my 6 cups unless I increase power, which if running a hard stripping run I can't do as I am already limited.

Being first run I would play a bit in the middle, say after 1 gallon is collected, trying to lower heat until the output is a fast drip or just a stream. Collecting a couple or three of smaller jars of that, a pint or less each, and test it. You should find it closer to 60% abv and tasting quite nice, a jar of hearts to keep from your first batch. It also helps you see what heat you will need for the spirit run.
I was planning to continue this recipe thru the rest of the summer time this year. We are going to add water back to the ferment barrel as soon as we load the still and thumper Saturday Morning and then sugar/backset once the still cools down from being ran on Saturday. Multiple generations over the course of the next 2 months. Looking to collect a few gallons total by August so that I could make a nice apple pie moonshine that I can let age for 2-3 months before the holidays hit in November/December to have on-hand.

You said if you're just doing a stripping run I don't need to worry so much about heat? I thought if we hit 210 in the head of the still that we were more producing water steam and not so much the alcohol that steams at a lower heat?

You're saying you can run the still that hot as far as not trying to 'perfectly regulate the propane' between a specific 'good temperature'? Based on ABV % starting out, and a chart I found online, it made it seem like we ideally wanted to steam at around 195-205.

And yes, this will be stripping runs. I figured a Jar of Hearts from the middle of the run would be awesome to keep, but that otherwise I would collect ALL of the heads/tails of the run until I had like 9-12 gallons of heads/tails to run a full spirit-only run to collect 2-3 gallons of spirits all worth keeping. Am I correct in that idea of this process/in use of running this UJSSM recipe over and over?

Some sh*t on this forum is over-explained and a bit confusing. Maybe those more advanced recipes and process, more advanced still types, etc., I can understand the complexity involved. But for someone just looking to start Entirely Fresh with something like the UJSSM Recipe... I feel like I missed a 'tutorial' somewhere that really breaks down the basics of running on propane like a 'newbies for dummies shine' book lol.

In case anyone curious, I'm running the following setup:

15 Gal Keg into 1/3rd ( 7 Gallon I think? ) Thumper Keg into a Home-built traditional coil condenser.

I was waiting to post a picture of the 'stand/still' my brother and I built until I was ready to post it in the builds section. It is now painted, and since this picture the condenser is now 'taller' to cover all of the coils in water.
Still_Setup.JPG
Thanks again everyone!

Will
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by NormandieStill »

Shine_Dad wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 5:07 am You said if you're just doing a stripping run I don't need to worry so much about heat? I thought if we hit 210 in the head of the still that we were more producing water steam and not so much the alcohol that steams at a lower heat?

You're saying you can run the still that hot as far as not trying to 'perfectly regulate the propane' between a specific 'good temperature'? Based on ABV % starting out, and a chart I found online, it made it seem like we ideally wanted to steam at around 195-205.
You can't regulate the temperature at which your wash boils. Just how fast it boils. Because physics. :wink:
Shine_Dad wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 5:07 am And yes, this will be stripping runs. I figured a Jar of Hearts from the middle of the run would be awesome to keep, but that otherwise I would collect ALL of the heads/tails of the run until I had like 9-12 gallons of heads/tails to run a full spirit-only run to collect 2-3 gallons of spirits all worth keeping. Am I correct in that idea of this process/in use of running this UJSSM recipe over and over?
You can pull a jar from the middle of your stripping run, but you'll need to be running quite slowly at that point if you want it to be "hearts". The idea of a stripping run is just to leave the bulk of the water in the boiler. Ideally you'll run as fast as your condenser will allow. The "Sour Mash" part of UJSSM means using some of your backset (boiler residue after a stripping run) in the next generation to help lower the pH for mashing in and reinforce the flavours. If you read through the UJSSM thread you'll find various ideas for what to do with the low wines from the first generation.
Shine_Dad wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 5:07 am Some sh*t on this forum is over-explained and a bit confusing. Maybe those more advanced recipes and process, more advanced still types, etc., I can understand the complexity involved. But for someone just looking to start Entirely Fresh with something like the UJSSM Recipe... I feel like I missed a 'tutorial' somewhere that really breaks down the basics of running on propane like a 'newbies for dummies shine' book lol.
The problem is that there is no linear path to follow. Everyone starts from different places, with different kit and different goals. Most of the recipes will not explain how to run your still, they provide the raw material to put into your still, but it's assumed that you know how to run it, and what you're going to be getting out of the other end.
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by jessespa »

You don't run by temperature. You run by your take off speed.
If you're strip running push it as fast as your condenser can handle it.
If you're doing a spirit run bring your temp up slow and once it starts producing adjust your temp by your take off speed.
It's my opinion that thermometers only tell me when it should be close to producing. After that i rely on touch to tell me where its at.
You can feel the temp change as you run your hand across the arm. Then shut it down once you reach your lowest ABV you want.
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by Shine_Dad »

So... and I'm very sorry to be asking this again... but can I ask it plainly like this:

Water creates steam at 210. So, I have a digital thermometer that sticks in the side of the head of my unit and magnetically just sits on my still unit with bluetooth so I can watch the temperature rise until it gets close to knowing that steam is coming out.

Am I not trying to regulate that temperature at the point of it leaving the still to try to have it Below 210 so that its only steaming the alcohol from the wash and not Everthing in the wash?

Anotherwords... if I run at 210, max temperature of water steaming, is that not going to produce kind of a shitty alcohol because its going to be just as much water steam as it is steam of the wash? Or with it all mixed up, its steaming all of it, both alcohol and water content?

I guess I'm trying to ask: Am I trying to regulate that temperature at the top to be below 210? So that it steams a little bit slower, theoretically producing a richer alochol?

If I run it full blast at 210, is it just going to steam out the alcohol no matter what until what i'm collecting and testing in the hydrometer no longer has an alcohol content? At that point its just steaming pure water because all of the alcohol content has already been pushed thru?

On a standard UJSSM wash, does anyone have an idea ( I know it will vary ) in how long it takes it to run 10-12 gallons of wash into the 2-3 gallons i will save hot and fast as a stripping run that i'm trying to collect to put towards my spirit run?

Are you telling me that as far as running this mash over and over until I collect enough to do a spirit run, anotherwords, doing stripping runs, that it's okay if my thermometer is reading 210 so long as my condenser setup can break it back into a liquid form by the time it leaves the condenser?

Thanks again everyone... I'm just trying to have a solid 'picture' of what to expect. This is a BIG DEAL to my brother and wife and I. Saturday is only a few days away and i'm really excited for our first run and i'm just trying to get a grasp of what to expect.

It sounds like running all out at 210 degrees doesn't matter, so long as we 'slow-roll' the wash into a boil from the get-go?

Picture of where my thermometer is on my still/boiler:
still_temp.JPG
Thanks!
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by Shine_Dad »

jessespa wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 7:33 am You don't run by temperature. You run by your take off speed.
If you're strip running push it as fast as your condenser can handle it.
If you're doing a spirit run bring your temp up slow and once it starts producing adjust your temp by your take off speed.
It's my opinion that thermometers only tell me when it should be close to producing. After that i rely on touch to tell me where its at.
You can feel the temp change as you run your hand across the arm. Then shut it down once you reach your lowest ABV you want.
This was really fun the first time we ran the entire still from boiler to thumper to condenser... it was really awesome to hear the 'thumping' in the the thumper and then following that heat, slowly but surely until it was clearly reaching the condenser.

I want to thank everyone again who has been more than friendly in helping me understand this and answering my questions. I understand that running my wash for the first time and actually producing some alcohol will in itself help teach me a lot of things, but as I said in my last Big Ass Post, anyone who can help me try to better understand what i'm to expect Saturday for this first run I really appreciate feedback.

I know some of you have been doing this for Years... but I ask for your patience in someone who is feeling like a kid on Christmas finally ready to run for the first time ever and how exciting it is.
jessespa
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by jessespa »

I only started running a thumper this past year. I came from running CCVM and CM stills originally. I love using my thumper but I only use it on my stripping runs.
I didn't want to upset anyone with what I had said.
I was also excited about running my unit with a thumper for the first time I had no idea what to expect.
We cant really tell you how to drive your still. Every still is different. Plus so many options like what are you putting in your thumper?
Are you going to use just clear wash in it? The left over grains from your ferment?
My first run with my thumper I was scared to death with grains in the thumper. I was following the heat across the arm and knew she should start thumping any minute. I sat a waited a bit longer then it sounded like an elephant trumpeted right next to me. I guess the corn and slop plugged up my down pipe and when it let go it really went off. Then i backed off the heat a little bit and she started thumping as i would expect.
I've learned alot on that first run and it was exciting.
I probably shouldn't have shared that story but hell it's learning. Try not to overthink it, it is a fun hobby.
Shine_Dad
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by Shine_Dad »

I will be running the same sugar wash going in the boiler.

So instead of just doubling the original recipe, I actually did the recipe for 12 gallons.

1-1.25 gallons for the thumper, and 10-10.5 gallons for the boiler.

I was told running the wash in the thumper will help improve proof and flavor.

And as far as jumping right in with using a thumper... well the wife originally thought I was just going to buy one of those cheap eBay kits... but after a few weeks of learning and reading online and hitting up marketgroup and craigslist, etc., I jumped in both feet full steam - no pun intended, and built a rig that I thought was capable of handling anything from basic UJSSM to rum or whatever else I end up doing in the future.

I'm still confused on whether or not I need to care about that top thermometer reading a full 210 though, or if I need to try to 'level off' the temperature of the steam at the top of the still to somewhere like 195-205?

Thanks everyone!
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subbrew
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Re: Is my Mash Fermenting? UJSSM

Post by subbrew »

Shine_Dad wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 8:16 am So... and I'm very sorry to be asking this again... but can I ask it plainly like this:

Water creates steam at 210. So, I have a digital thermometer that sticks in the side of the head of my unit and magnetically just sits on my still unit with bluetooth so I can watch the temperature rise until it gets close to knowing that steam is coming out.
You are not boiling water, you are boiling a mixture of water and alcohol. But you don't need to worry about it. You heat up until you start getting condensate out of the collection tube. I don't know what temp that is as I don't have a thermometer on the still. But for some indication as to what you will see. At first you will just get drops but over the next 5 or so minutes it will get faster to a small stream if you have heat enough and cooling enough in the condenser to knock it down. The following is based on 6 cups per jar. The first jar I see about 55% give or take. the next jar will drip to perhaps 48% abv. Next is perhaps 42% or a bit less. Then it falls more slowly for a few jars in the middle before dropping off fster at the end.
Am I not trying to regulate that temperature at the point of it leaving the still to try to have it Below 210 so that its only steaming the alcohol from the wash and not Everthing in the wash?

Anotherwords... if I run at 210, max temperature of water steaming, is that not going to produce kind of a shitty alcohol because its going to be just as much water steam as it is steam of the wash? Or with it all mixed up, its steaming all of it, both alcohol and water content?
yes, in all runs you are getting a water and alcohol mix. In stripping runs you are getting move of a mix and because of the fast take off you are getting heads, hearts and tails all mixed up as well. Although sniff each jar coming off and you will be able to pick out higher % heads at the start, cleans up some in the middle and then tails stretches for all the last half. In the spirit run you go slow so you get less smearing/mixing of heads, hearts and tails.
I guess I'm trying to ask: Am I trying to regulate that temperature at the top to be below 210? So that it steams a little bit slower, theoretically producing a richer alochol?
No. Please take you magnetic thermometer and put it on your refrigerator today. Temperature is totally controlled by the mixture you are boiling. At first the mixture has a higher % alcohol so it boils at a lower temp. Later, as the mixture changes and the % alcohol lowers it will boil at a higher temp. But you don't care. All you are concerned about is the ABV coming off the spout. When it drops below 10% (for a stripping run) you are done.
If I run it full blast at 210, is it just going to steam out the alcohol no matter what until what i'm collecting and testing in the hydrometer no longer has an alcohol content? At that point its just steaming pure water because all of the alcohol content has already been pushed thru?
But you can't. not matter how much heat you put into it, if you have a mixture of alcohol and water it will boil lower than 210 (I assume you are above sea level a bit since it is not 212). More heat just means it boils faster but the temp does not change unit the mixture changes.
On a standard UJSSM wash, does anyone have an idea ( I know it will vary ) in how long it takes it to run 10-12 gallons of wash into the 2-3 gallons i will save hot and fast as a stripping run that i'm trying to collect to put towards my spirit run?
Totally depends on how much heat you put in and if you condenser limited. I run electric and at 4600 watts it is under three hours from start assembling still and heating up to shutdown and disassemble. Once going I collect 6 cups every 11 minutes
Are you telling me that as far as running this mash over and over until I collect enough to do a spirit run, anotherwords, doing stripping runs, that it's okay if my thermometer is reading 210 so long as my condenser setup can break it back into a liquid form by the time it leaves the condenser?
Yes, but as said above physics will not let your thermometer read 210. I know it is hard to shift that thinking but it is wrong. The temp will not go to 210 until after all the alcohol is out of the mixture and you should have shut down.
Thanks again everyone... I'm just trying to have a solid 'picture' of what to expect. This is a BIG DEAL to my brother and wife and I. Saturday is only a few days away and i'm really excited for our first run and i'm just trying to get a grasp of what to expect.

It sounds like running all out at 210 degrees doesn't matter, so long as we 'slow-roll' the wash into a boil from the get-go?

Picture of where my thermometer is on my still/boiler:

still_temp.JPG

Thanks!
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