first 5 gallon still

Many like to post about a first successful ferment (or first all grain mash), or first still built/bought or first good run of the still. Tell us about all of these great times here.
Pics are VERY welcome, we drool over pretty copper 8)

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Fiddleford
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Re: first 5 gallon still

Post by Fiddleford »

Took me a few hours to do this but I like this better then trying to explain something in my head.. uhh that's about the scale model of my still the column beside it is what I plan on using as a condenser, you can see a coil when you zoom in that's where I will be running cold water to condense the vapour, both of the columns are 1 1/2 ID inch the lyne arm will be a 1/2 inch ID, and the condenser is that dainty 3/16 ID pipe there is 6 turns to the coil. I think one turn has a 4.7123 inch circumference so that must mean all 6 has 28.2743 inches in total not counting the tube going through the middle. I posted both the scale rig and the coil for the condenser so you guys could get a better look at that, if anyone has any input I will appreciate it.

8)
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Re: first 5 gallon still

Post by Alchemist75 »

So the coil is on the inside. Correct?
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Re: first 5 gallon still

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Yes I made the cylinder transparent so you can see the placement
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Re: first 5 gallon still

Post by Alchemist75 »

I like that concept, maybe I should do something like that.
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Re: first 5 gallon still

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When you roll the pipe throw some fine salt in it, then when your done and have the pipe where you want it throw it in a pot of boiling water to get the salt out. You do t kink the pipe this way and it's better then sand I've spent hours trying to remove sand from coils, also anneal the copper and hammer one end off before you add the salt then after you add the salt hammer off the other end
Last edited by Fiddleford on Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gunna have me a drink then gambol around
Here's some fiddle music
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Re: first 5 gallon still

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I bet that keeps it from flattening too. Good design!
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Re: first 5 gallon still

Post by Fiddleford »

Finest coil I've seen seen yet
I bet that keeps it from flattening too
Yes that is exactly what its for, if you ever find yourself with a coil full of sand that's stuck as mud heat the coil with a torch and tap it on something, the metal expands and the sand gets released and falls out.

p.s I don't know how to quote properly
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Rye whisky rye whisky oh dont let me down
Gunna have me a drink then gambol around
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Re: first 5 gallon still

Post by Alchemist75 »

I did an external cooling coil as part of the dephlegmator on my CM and it wrapped very neatly but it did flatten. Fortunately it didn't flatten enough to block the water flow. Soldering on an external coil is very difficult to do neatly I'll tell you what!
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Re: first 5 gallon still

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I'll guess a CM is a kind of reflux? I'm not to well antiquated with reflux i had a column that had some refluxing potential, but i drilled a hole in it poorly and there was a 1 mm gap and I didn't have the skills to fix the thing but it was a good 3 feet tall and it had a 1 1/5 inch ID. I got to run the to thing 3 times but I stored the lid of the pot attached to the flange and column and it slightly bent the lid, after that it just leaked vapour. I now know I can use teflon tape to seal joints so ill try that on the lid to see if I can revive the thing so I can run the thing to run on the stove, if it leaks pressure but heat builds in the column i will pre-heat the column and wrap it with a heat insulating material.
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Gunna have me a drink then gambol around
Here's some fiddle music
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Re: first 5 gallon still

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Yep, CM "coolant management" is a reflux variety. They say it's the hardest to control and for all I know that may be so. The controls on it are hair fine, slight adjustments to coolant flow make big changes to the reflux ratio. I've all but mastered it, doesn't seem so hard to me but I've no point of reference as it's the only column type I've tried. I run it without a thermometer which might seem challenging to some but I've learned my cut points by dicing up my first couple runs in 100 ml increments. You don't need a thermometer to run any still, there's other ways.
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Re: first 5 gallon still

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I would have to say it sounds to complex for me as of the moment, one day I think I'll get back into reflux but for now pot still and columns

I decided to go about the condenser in a whole other direction I'll wrap a coil around a 1 inch tube as a external cooling line, yes I know I could use a liebag but I used one and didn't like it plus this is sort of the same concept its just not jacketed and it will use less water.
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Re: first 5 gallon still

Post by Alchemist75 »

Aye, a pot still is nothing to complain about, it'll get the job done just fine. My rig is modular and can be configured as a pot. I'm actually looking forward to double running in pot mode only. My best friend comes around with rum and fruit ferments now and then and those will be doubled in pot mode. I wanna see how she handles especially on the spirit run. That condenser design is a novel one and one I considered just before I built my liebig. The reflux condenser on my column consists of 3 through condensers and above that it has a 5" external coil type just as you describe. It works better than I think most folks assume. If your whole pc is done like that you'll have to keep the coils wound very tightly and it may have to be longer than a typical liebig. One thing about that idea is that it may be easier to get a more even temperature gradient because the thermal exchange isn't as efficient, less chance of shock cooling thus less huffing problems. I think it's a cool design, looks neat for sure. How long did you say you're gonna make it? With a 1" id I'd be inclined to have a few through condensers at the start of it, maybe 4-5 of them in a spiral configuration, help break up the vapor path a bit.
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Re: first 5 gallon still

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well the thing is a 5 gallon pot with a column so I'm expecting there to me some basic minor refluxing going on inside it even without the reflux setup, I'm hoping that takes the percent up a bit and reduces the amount of water in the vapour allowing less need for a unnecessarily large condenser but the length of the tube I will be coiling is between 19 and 16 feet. I will be coiling it tightly and may provide it with a jacket filled with a brine solution to ensure it has enough heat transfer, (may not work but I'm willing to try it) what I will defiantly do is use some old solder to solder the tightly wound coil to the pipe for more heat transfer. remember its on the outside so old solder wont hurt.
Rye whisky rye whisky oh dont let me down
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Re: first 5 gallon still

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No, old solder don't matter on the outside. Soldering a coil on to a pipe isn't very easy I've found. You can sweat it just like a regular copper joint but it's hard to get the solder evenly spread in there. I suppose if the coil is wound tight enough to make full contact all the way around you only need enough solder to hold it firmly in place. The coil I did grips the vapor tube pretty well so I don't think there's any problems but it was tricky to get it like that. The condenser you're talking about will be difficult to execute but as long as you're patient with it it should work out. Just make sure you make it long enough.
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Re: first 5 gallon still

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This is a picture of my column, the image quality isn't the best but the coil is pretty visible. It's wrapped on there tight as can be:

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Re: first 5 gallon still

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This is the new design, it has a 20 7/8 inch x 7/8 inch condenser with I think 16 feet of coil with I think 41 turns, the tubing making up the coil has a 1/4 inch OD.. I may separate the coil into different sections so I can better effectively cool the condenser. I cant wait to get my greedy hands on that solder :wink:
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Re: first 5 gallon still

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If you separate the coiled areas you could pop a through condenser or two in the gaps. One version I've seen has the coils less tightly wound at the start and gradually increases in tightness towards the outlet in an effort to create a better temperature gradient. I think that condenser was probably at least 35"-40" long though. At 20" you might run into problems because that method of jacketing provides less efficient cooling especially if it has gaps along it. Maybe put a pre condenser before it, perhaps an under powered condenser at the top of your riser that'd slow vapor speed and give you a little reflux action. My pot configuration uses a little packed purifier with a little dephlegmator before it goes to the lyne arm, it grants a modest proof bump and makes it possible to run the rig at full heat without producing excessively hot distillate. Basically a resistor in the head of the still to help the product condenser do it's job more effectively.
Last edited by Alchemist75 on Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: first 5 gallon still

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Either that or just run a little slower.
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Re: first 5 gallon still

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An ideal I had I think I mentioned it somewhere was to cut the coil up into sections and run them from a copper manifold so it gets better heat transfer. the coil you see is a inaccurate example I haven't figured out how to use pitch in the program yet but it should have 57 1/4 turns on it and unless my math is wrong that should leave just about 1/8 worth of space between each turn. I might be able to take some kind of medium to fill the gaps like some old rope or cloth and wet it every now and then.
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Gunna have me a drink then gambol around
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Re: first 5 gallon still

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Yeah, you could do that. It may put a hard limit on how fast you can run but it'll work.
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Re: first 5 gallon still

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My goal is to run it at least 3 times faster then my 1 gallon still on stripping runs and have the vapour coming out around 70F, if I had access to some kind of formula of vaporisation rates and condensation rates I could give myself a ballpark estimate of what I need specifically to be able to do this. I love efficiency but right now I can only use what I have on hand and I realise all of what I am doing is very in efficient but I can't stand my one gallon still anymore its to damn slow and I'm not able to access the full potential of my mashes. I greatly appreciate all the input I've been getting on this specific topic.
Rye whisky rye whisky oh dont let me down
Gunna have me a drink then gambol around
Here's some fiddle music
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Re: first 5 gallon still

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Have you considered a worm? Do you have the materials needed to build one?
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Re: first 5 gallon still

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I only have the 1/4 inch OD tubing right now, I'll have to wait a week or so before I can go out and get the copper for a worm, I know i should wait till then but i have a ideal for this once i can get my hands on some sheet metal. the ideal is to pretty much have a liebag configuration but instead of the water flowing though the jacket it goes through a coil and the jacket is filled with a liquid that has good thermal transfer reducing the amount of water needed to cool the condenser, IF a inner coil condenser isn't an option. Otherwise this is just a bunch of work which is kind of fun.
Rye whisky rye whisky oh dont let me down
Gunna have me a drink then gambol around
Here's some fiddle music
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Re: first 5 gallon still

Post by Alchemist75 »

Honestly, from my limited engineering knowledge I'd say your original ide was better. Given the amount of tubing you have to play with you could make a pretty long cold finger type condenser that would work better than your current idea. An external coil does work but the condenser length has to be long enough and you don't want gaps along it unless it's to create space for through condensers. It probably won't allow faster running in that configuration.
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Re: first 5 gallon still

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And what about your old liebig didn't you like again?
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Re: first 5 gallon still

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the liebag had a lack of materials and it was assembled in a dumb way i can reassemble it once i get thous materials but till then I'm stuck with this option, and I couldn't use the first option I have no way to seal the end vapour end I need to drill hole I would much rather not drill. the list goes on and on but it all comes down to lack of material.
Rye whisky rye whisky oh dont let me down
Gunna have me a drink then gambol around
Here's some fiddle music
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Re: first 5 gallon still

Post by Alchemist75 »

Gotcha. Well, you can build a condenser now that may be a hair under powered or wait and build one that'll never give you trouble.
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Re: first 5 gallon still

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If it were me I'd just wait. Your ferments won't go bad in a weeks time.
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Re: first 5 gallon still

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Turns out thou some copper is in stock tomorrow so I can make a worm. I'll still fool around with this, even if it doesn't work its good I get some more experience under my belt, also I can adapt the design for something else I have planned.
Rye whisky rye whisky oh dont let me down
Gunna have me a drink then gambol around
Here's some fiddle music
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Re: first 5 gallon still

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I'm not to worried about my mash going bad its already gone bad on me due to poor upkeep of the mash, it's had probably 5-6 gens so whatever is in there be it a minuscule amount of alcohol or whatever I'll use it as a sacrificial run to clean the flux and shit from the system
Rye whisky rye whisky oh dont let me down
Gunna have me a drink then gambol around
Here's some fiddle music
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