MozzMann's Still from Hell
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MozzMann's Still from Hell
Well I finally started to get various parts made for my Multi column reflux still based on Bokakob's plans.
It will be an 8 barrel circular reflux arrangement mounted on top of a 200 Liter boiler
Lock pieces for the Over Centre locks to hold Lid and columns on Boiler.
Still Reflux columns laying down on my workshop floor in front of the Mill.
Condenser Coil and chamber under construction, more photo's in a few days as time allows.
It will be an 8 barrel circular reflux arrangement mounted on top of a 200 Liter boiler
Lock pieces for the Over Centre locks to hold Lid and columns on Boiler.
Still Reflux columns laying down on my workshop floor in front of the Mill.
Condenser Coil and chamber under construction, more photo's in a few days as time allows.
Last edited by MozzMann on Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: MozzMann's Still for Hell
Wow that's a lot of copper! I can see this is going to be a really interesting project.
Re: MozzMann's Still for Hell
WOW, what the heck size is the diameter of that thing going to be ? Nice work !!!
Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
Each column is 5'6" or 1675 mm in height and they are kept parallel in 2 plates with holes that are a snug fit to the tubes, they will be welded when I place the reflux and draw off tubes in place. as the condenser bottom is the top disc that is shown in the photo. Yes I did say welded and NOT Soldered bloody marvelous what you can do with a TIG .
Oh I am using a special fitting at the bottom of the vertical columns too that will slide over the stainless tube sockets in the Boiler lid .
Oh I am using a special fitting at the bottom of the vertical columns too that will slide over the stainless tube sockets in the Boiler lid .
Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
I applaud the build. but propress with rubber o-rings should not be used. especially when you are going to tig the pipes to the plates (will melt the rubber) a regular coupling with teflon would do the same thing only no poisonous noxious toxins will get in your drink. Other than that great job. what diameter are the tubes. again great job with the build so far.
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Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
The 'O' Rings you see there are actually High Temp Black Teflon but they will not be utilised as I think the fit will be flush enough not to require any more sealing than 2 milled surfaces in contact with each other.
The vertical columns are 52 mm OD ie 2" NB.
Thanks for the positive feedback fellas it is encouraging.
The vertical columns are 52 mm OD ie 2" NB.
Thanks for the positive feedback fellas it is encouraging.
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Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
Looks to me in the one pic that fitting has already been crimped on. If the O-rings were left in the fittings and crimped. Then heat is applied to the pipe. Those O-rings will melt and cause some serious mess?
A better way to use those fittings for our purposes. Take the O-rings out and replace it with a ring of solder. Flux it crimp it on and heat.
Now what could you possibly need a condenser this size for? It's huge.
A better way to use those fittings for our purposes. Take the O-rings out and replace it with a ring of solder. Flux it crimp it on and heat.
Now what could you possibly need a condenser this size for? It's huge.
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Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
The way I read it Mr P is he is trying to make a multi tower reflux still... I've looked at this thread several times and have wanted to respond but I can't hold back any longer... equilibrium??? Don't get me wrong, I'm all about innovation, I think that is or should be, a big part of what this site is about. That way maybe some of the ol timers wouldn't get so bored and we could advance our hobby.
But, the way I read it, this is going to be a multi towered reflux still...equilibrium? Its been talked about alot here and elsewhere. I'm not even sure my triple headed stripper will work yet. (Its still at the welders). I'm interested in hearing this builders response...
But, the way I read it, this is going to be a multi towered reflux still...equilibrium? Its been talked about alot here and elsewhere. I'm not even sure my triple headed stripper will work yet. (Its still at the welders). I'm interested in hearing this builders response...
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
I am basing this unit on a Plan published by Alex (Bokokob) in 2003
If your referring to each column being able to take a share of the vapor yes I have thought of this issue, and concluded that there shouldn't really be too much of a problem. there will be a baffle between the boiling wash and the bottom of the Lid.
The Boiler is dead level and the columns will be dead vertical and the packing will be as close as I can get it to being even in density ( I have made a jig that I use to test the Air flow ) essentially it is like a Cylinder Leak down tester ie Air in v Air out = X density and you adjust the packing to get as near the same as possible the same resistive pressure reading on the gauge. we are talking pressures of just 1 PSI here too.
The reflux tubes delivering spirit back to the columns will all be angled by around .5 deg down will be level and fluid controlled by a return tube to the boiler.
more WIP images later today with some luck.
If your referring to each column being able to take a share of the vapor yes I have thought of this issue, and concluded that there shouldn't really be too much of a problem. there will be a baffle between the boiling wash and the bottom of the Lid.
The Boiler is dead level and the columns will be dead vertical and the packing will be as close as I can get it to being even in density ( I have made a jig that I use to test the Air flow ) essentially it is like a Cylinder Leak down tester ie Air in v Air out = X density and you adjust the packing to get as near the same as possible the same resistive pressure reading on the gauge. we are talking pressures of just 1 PSI here too.
The reflux tubes delivering spirit back to the columns will all be angled by around .5 deg down will be level and fluid controlled by a return tube to the boiler.
more WIP images later today with some luck.
Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
I just run a pot still (for now) but I'm curious, what's the advantage to this style as opposed to a large flute build? or even just 1 big boka style? It seems like it would be alot of work and expense. But it looks freakin cool, so either way, nice work!
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Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
MozzMann wrote:The 'O' Rings you see there are actually High Temp Black Teflon but they will not be utilised as I think the fit will be flush enough not to require any more sealing than 2 milled surfaces in contact with each other.
The vertical columns are 52 mm OD ie 2" NB.
Thanks for the positive feedback fellas it is encouraging.
epdm o-rings. http://www.elkhartproducts.com/xpress/xPress.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow.
black high temp ptfe. (carbon filled ptfe) has a durometer to high to be used in 0-rings
be water my friend
Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
I've not really seen many other designs that were suitable to incorporate with existing Boiler that is currently used for Beer Brewing as well.
The biggest reason for going this route was cost, I could have purchased 6 or 8 " Hard Drawn copper pipe and made a single large Reflux unit.
Unfortunately I would have been forced to buy a complete length and at over $2000 per length and that just wasn't on.
The sleeve fittings shown above will have the "O" rings removed and just slid over the top of stainless tube sections TIG welded to the New Boiler Lid at precisely the same pitch as the Columns so with any luck the entire column and condenser will sit well sealed. the columns currently weigh in at 15 Kg or around 30 Lbs so add a few more for the condenser etc.
The biggest reason for going this route was cost, I could have purchased 6 or 8 " Hard Drawn copper pipe and made a single large Reflux unit.
Unfortunately I would have been forced to buy a complete length and at over $2000 per length and that just wasn't on.
The sleeve fittings shown above will have the "O" rings removed and just slid over the top of stainless tube sections TIG welded to the New Boiler Lid at precisely the same pitch as the Columns so with any luck the entire column and condenser will sit well sealed. the columns currently weigh in at 15 Kg or around 30 Lbs so add a few more for the condenser etc.
Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
MozzMann, you are aware that some of those designs are conceptual drawings only and were never built and proven, right...??? Alex got on a doodling jag and published his doodles... Some of them even state on them that they are conceptual in nature... That's a lot of copper to hack up just to see if the design actually works... Sure wish you would have tested the waters here before going rogue in the shop... I sincerely hope your efforts result in a viable contraption...
Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
Yes mate I am aware of some of these designs being conceptual BUT someone has got to actually build one to prove the design.
I have built quite a few reflux stills, and varied the column height in testing, then I came across Alex's wild design and started to think that there is absolutely no reason why a multi column reflux won't work and so I decided to have a crack at it.
If the design works successfully then all good if not then I will have 8 single column reflux units instead of one large one and can sel them off to recoupe some of my outlay.
Speaking of outlay this project has only cost me about $200 thus far so it's worth the gamble, the Stainless and Copper sheet were purchased for another commissioned job and not all used so this mitigates the cost somewhat
I'll keep you all up to date with developments with the build.
I have built quite a few reflux stills, and varied the column height in testing, then I came across Alex's wild design and started to think that there is absolutely no reason why a multi column reflux won't work and so I decided to have a crack at it.
If the design works successfully then all good if not then I will have 8 single column reflux units instead of one large one and can sel them off to recoupe some of my outlay.
Speaking of outlay this project has only cost me about $200 thus far so it's worth the gamble, the Stainless and Copper sheet were purchased for another commissioned job and not all used so this mitigates the cost somewhat
I'll keep you all up to date with developments with the build.
Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
Just another update , I started Burnishing the Sheet to be rolled into the Condenser chamber this arvo , but couldn't find a new packet of scouring pads I bought.
New ones tomorrow
New ones tomorrow
Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
Starting to come together
Mozz
Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
Sorry I have not been back to revisit the build but I have had to devote a lot of time to other projects and hopefully get this monster finished before this Winter. so apologies for being a slack turd. Stay tuned.
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Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
How many HD rules has this busted...........
Oh, but it is is shiny copper porn.
No doubt.
Oh, but it is is shiny copper porn.
No doubt.
Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
That thing is out of control.
Wish I had the skills to tig and jewel copper. Jealous!!!
Wish I had the skills to tig and jewel copper. Jealous!!!
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Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
Jeweling is easy. All you need is something scratchy and a spinny-thingy.
I did it on my SS .45 with a piece of Cratex stick (essentially diamond-impregnated rubber eraser) and a drill press. Do it with a 50% overlap and it gets really pretty.
tp (and his "Pimp Gun")
I did it on my SS .45 with a piece of Cratex stick (essentially diamond-impregnated rubber eraser) and a drill press. Do it with a 50% overlap and it gets really pretty.
tp (and his "Pimp Gun")
Caution: Steep learning curve ahead!
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My "Still Tutorial" CM w/PP mods
Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
You could make that into a mini-refinery, very pretty work.
Any consideration to an optional series hookup of the columns?
Any consideration to an optional series hookup of the columns?
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Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
Wow, haven't seen this thread before. Very interesting idea. Has anything like this been tried before?
I noticed you mentioned the equivalent would be an 8" bore pipe. I'm not sure. Eight pipes have the same cross sectional area as one pipe with square root 8 (2.8 ) times the diameter. So in terms of flow you will be getting the same as 2.8 x 2" = 5.6" (142mm) pipe. Where I live 159mm copper pipe is £65 per metre and 54mm pipe is £11 per metre. So for me it would be cheaper to go for a single 6" pipe. That's before taking in to account 8 lots of fittings for the boiler and 8 needle valves.
Just because the 5.6" would have the same CSA as your 8 x 2" that doesnt mean they would perform the same. Until you try it I don't think anyone can really know. If for example the centre couple of inches of a large tube performed much better than the outer few inches then there could be big benefits to having several smaller tubes. If however the cooling the vapour from being near the column reduces performance then the large bore column would out perform several smaller ones. There could be dozens of factors at play. Finding out which is better probably has to be done by experiment.
Balancing the vapour flow up 8 columns might be impossible. Your suggested approach may work for dry air but mixed vapour and liquid behave very differently to dry air. Consider what happens when one tube starts to get close to flooding (where you want to be for effective reflux). The pressure needed to push vapour up that tube increases. In your situation vapour will simply stop passing up that tube and us a different route unless all the other tubes are at the exact same point of almost flooding. The key is going to be ensuring that all 8 are at the same equilibrium state at the same time. It could be that its self regulating. So as one backs up vapour favours others until they back up etc and it all settles down to a nice stable equilibrium. Alternatively you could have more chaotic behaviour. One backs up and vapour goes elsewhere, that tubes pressure collapses and the tube clears, all vapour gushes up that tube and others collapse etc.
Its all mathematics and pertubation theory. Compare to a pendulum. It has 2 equilibrium points. The dangling one is stable, small nudges and it will settle back. The other is with the pendulum ballanced vertically. It is in equilibrium but its unstable. Any nudge will cause it to fall out of that equilibrium. A single pendulum is very easy to model. If you build a double pendulum its much harder to model because the two pendulums interact. A triple pendulum will exhibit chaotic behaviour and is impossible to model. It will never settle in to a stable equilibrium.
Triple Pendulum 01: http://youtu.be/scI1GIkIWuk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
You may be building an octuple pendulum. Seriously crazy stuff.
Good luck. I'm really loving where this might end up.
I noticed you mentioned the equivalent would be an 8" bore pipe. I'm not sure. Eight pipes have the same cross sectional area as one pipe with square root 8 (2.8 ) times the diameter. So in terms of flow you will be getting the same as 2.8 x 2" = 5.6" (142mm) pipe. Where I live 159mm copper pipe is £65 per metre and 54mm pipe is £11 per metre. So for me it would be cheaper to go for a single 6" pipe. That's before taking in to account 8 lots of fittings for the boiler and 8 needle valves.
Just because the 5.6" would have the same CSA as your 8 x 2" that doesnt mean they would perform the same. Until you try it I don't think anyone can really know. If for example the centre couple of inches of a large tube performed much better than the outer few inches then there could be big benefits to having several smaller tubes. If however the cooling the vapour from being near the column reduces performance then the large bore column would out perform several smaller ones. There could be dozens of factors at play. Finding out which is better probably has to be done by experiment.
Balancing the vapour flow up 8 columns might be impossible. Your suggested approach may work for dry air but mixed vapour and liquid behave very differently to dry air. Consider what happens when one tube starts to get close to flooding (where you want to be for effective reflux). The pressure needed to push vapour up that tube increases. In your situation vapour will simply stop passing up that tube and us a different route unless all the other tubes are at the exact same point of almost flooding. The key is going to be ensuring that all 8 are at the same equilibrium state at the same time. It could be that its self regulating. So as one backs up vapour favours others until they back up etc and it all settles down to a nice stable equilibrium. Alternatively you could have more chaotic behaviour. One backs up and vapour goes elsewhere, that tubes pressure collapses and the tube clears, all vapour gushes up that tube and others collapse etc.
Its all mathematics and pertubation theory. Compare to a pendulum. It has 2 equilibrium points. The dangling one is stable, small nudges and it will settle back. The other is with the pendulum ballanced vertically. It is in equilibrium but its unstable. Any nudge will cause it to fall out of that equilibrium. A single pendulum is very easy to model. If you build a double pendulum its much harder to model because the two pendulums interact. A triple pendulum will exhibit chaotic behaviour and is impossible to model. It will never settle in to a stable equilibrium.
Triple Pendulum 01: http://youtu.be/scI1GIkIWuk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
You may be building an octuple pendulum. Seriously crazy stuff.
Good luck. I'm really loving where this might end up.
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Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
I don't understand. What is it? Just a giant multi Column still? The boiler for this thing must be the size of a freight container. You'd need a volcano to heat it.
Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
Unless I'm not understanding........Some call that a gattling gun column.
The larger surface area promotes higher attenuation....Some say.
The larger surface area promotes higher attenuation....Some say.
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
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Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
"In our view 25 gallons and under is considered hobby size. Do not bring anything larger then this to our site"
only applicable to some?? It is very sexy though.
only applicable to some?? It is very sexy though.
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Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
was gonna bring up the 25 gallon rule several posts ago....but damn that thing is sexy.
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Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
I was going to bring up the pimp gun a few posts ago, but damn that thing is sexy...
Shouting and shooting, I can't let them catch me...
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Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
an 8000 gallon pot is slightly bigger than the 40 gallon max of this site...as ive been told...but yeah nice work...those orings are EPDM, not teflon...i sell those fittings...jjust saying...but it looks cool..
It's like a sore dick...Tough to beat!!
Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
Did you guys miss how old this post is?
Perhaps it's from before our 'hobby size' rules were so strongly enforced?
Either way... I'd like to hear a follow up about it. Looks pretty sweet. An its a unique design.
You still around mozzman?
Tap. Out.
Perhaps it's from before our 'hobby size' rules were so strongly enforced?
Either way... I'd like to hear a follow up about it. Looks pretty sweet. An its a unique design.
You still around mozzman?
Tap. Out.
Too much of anything is bad, but too much good whiskey is barely enough
Re: MozzMann's Still from Hell
Yeah I is still around, but due to circumstances beyond my control I have had to put on hold some of the development.
Sometime after this winter I will be back to finishing this sucker, I have made a single relux based on the original design that produced close to 98% Pure , talk about moonshine
So sorry for not popping in regularly to update everyone.
Sometime after this winter I will be back to finishing this sucker, I have made a single relux based on the original design that produced close to 98% Pure , talk about moonshine
So sorry for not popping in regularly to update everyone.