My First Rum

Anything to do with rum

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Shine0n
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Re: My First Rum

Post by Shine0n »

The best tester is your taster, if it's dry it's done no matter what a hydrometer reads.

Strip the snot out of it, then do a spirit run..... Tadah! RUM

Just make sure to collect in pints during the spirit run, air for a day and then blend, remember though, if you want some good sipping white rum NOW go light on the tails, the stuff you plan to age you can go a bit heavier as they'll smooth out over time.
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Re: My First Rum

Post by Old Town »

I just took a ph reading and it's sitting at 4 maybe I should add some more shells??
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Re: My First Rum

Post by NZChris »

I'd be be guessing that most of the shell you put in the first time is still there. If so, there would be no point in adding more.

I'm loath to give you advice on this one because I have never dumped 3lb of crushed shell into a ferment, (and never will). I'd be worried about the state of the trub as high pH creates some nasty flavors that I would never want in my rums and, despite the persistence of the myth about it being a buffer, shell is capable of pushing pH over 7.
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Re: My First Rum

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

NZChris wrote:... despite the persistence of the myth about it being a buffer, shell is capable of pushing pH over 7.
You like to go around dispelling beliefs, and pushing your personal preferences, from 30 years of distilling of course, as absolutes. You ever plan on making an actual case?
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Re: My First Rum

Post by jb-texshine »

Old Town wrote:Ok just checked it again and the hydrometer hasn't moved. I gave it a taste and its bitter as hell no hint of sweet. I can't really explain the flavor but it's not to pleasant at this point. I don't see any yeast activity on the surface but it is still fizzing. The hydrometer is still reading at 1.050 but I don't think it's going to drop anymore than that. I'm going to give it until tomorrow and if there is no movement I'm calling it done. Any last words of advice before I run this one is much appreciated.
Wait another 24 hours. If it's still fizzing it's either still fermenting or degassing. At this point just wait.

On another note, guys,play nice.
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Re: My First Rum

Post by nerdybrewer »

PH 4 is ok, I would let it continue.
I get anxious when it's in the high 2's to low 3's which is typically where my rum wash will stall out.

You should have trub coating your shells now so don't worry about them hurting your wash, it will continue fermenting either until it's done or some bad thing happens.
I'd also try to not disturb the shells when transferring the wash to your boiler, just in case.
Cranky's spoonfeeding:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52975

Time and Oak will sort it out.
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Re: My First Rum

Post by NZChris »

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote:
NZChris wrote:... despite the persistence of the myth about it being a buffer, shell is capable of pushing pH over 7.
You like to go around dispelling beliefs, and pushing your personal preferences, from 30 years of distilling of course, as absolutes. You ever plan on making an actual case?
The science was covered on a thread some time back. Not by me. Maybe you missed it.
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Re: My First Rum

Post by Saltbush Bill »

NZChris wrote:You like to go around dispelling beliefs, and pushing your personal preferences, from 30 years of distilling of course, as absolutes. You ever plan on making an actual case?
Ok so Im not the only one :lol:
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Re: My First Rum

Post by NZChris »

If I remember correctly, it was DAD300 that posted it.
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Re: My First Rum

Post by Kareltje »

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote:
NZChris wrote:... despite the persistence of the myth about it being a buffer, shell is capable of pushing pH over 7.
You like to go around dispelling beliefs, and pushing your personal preferences, from 30 years of distilling of course, as absolutes. You ever plan on making an actual case?
Isn't that the whole point of this forum: that those with knowledge and experience help and advise those still without? And that false beliefs should be dispelled as soon as possible?
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Re: My First Rum

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

As far as preferences, this is not a battleground. We should all strive to understand each others experiences. I have experienced very good results with a single run, for example, but I would never tell anybody that says you have to do a double run that they are wrong. I recognize it's preference. We need to be mindful when telling new distillers that they have to do something a certain way. The only thing we should tell them they have to do, is be safe.

As far as beliefs, if they are false, absolutely they should be immediately dispelled. I am only suggesting that when doing so, a documented result be referenced, or an "it's my opinion that" be included. To simply state your belief as fact, without source (or proven reference) is not, I feel, respectable to do so.

It has not been my experience with calcium carbonate that it will raise the mash /wash above 7. In fact, I posted results of my experience in the subject, and although a great amount was dissolved, it could be argued that it did not make as strong of a rise that most would think. I did not say Chris was wrong, I asked if he was going to prove it.

I could post my results, but they weren't exhaustive, so I wouldn't say that my results are fact.
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Re: My First Rum

Post by NZChris »

Used sensibly, which is what we should be aiming for, calcium carbonate appears to buffer where we want it and doesn't push pH over 7. This helps perpetuate the myth. I've only had it go over 7 in a dunder pit where there was no active ferment to produce acid.

Here is DAD300s take on it a couple of years ago. He went to the trouble of doing experiments to find out where it buffers.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p7347925
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Re: My First Rum

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

Chris, I appreciate that you took the time to find that thread, even if it was to only shut me up, lol. I'm going to go through that thread again, it's been years. I want to see where it concluded. From the gate, though, it looks like 7.4 is the buffering number? So a little above neutral, but all the same buffering until a base solution is formed?

Ironically, a few post up, was mentioned of your experiment, that proved self buffering shells, and establishing the "myth".

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p7312474

Where is that thread? I would love to see your results. :thumbup: Truly. (I realize that cranky may have misquoted).
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Re: My First Rum

Post by jb-texshine »

Soo...
Old Town,how's the rum going?
:lol: I gotta say ,you should call it "controversy rum" :lol:
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Re: My First Rum

Post by NZChris »

I don't know when I first mentioned it.
It's an example of Chinese Whispers. Someone says they successfully used shells as a buffer, they are misquoted as saying they are a buffer, someone else assumes that because they read somewhere that yeast likes a pH of 5.5 then that is what they buffer at and adds that to the misquote, someone else can't get whole shells so makes it chicken grit, and so on ad infinitum..... Then a reputable member posts the science behind it and nobody notices, or maybe nobody cares? I don't know, I'm a stiller, not a psychologist.
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Re: My First Rum

Post by jb-texshine »

NZChris wrote:I don't know when I first mentioned it.
It's an example of Chinese Whispers. Someone says they successfully used shells as a buffer, they are misquoted as saying they are a buffer, someone else assumes that because they read somewhere that yeast likes a pH of 5.5 then that is what they buffer at and adds that to the misquote, someone else can't get whole shells so makes it chicken grit, and so on ad infinitum..... Then a reputable member posts the science behind it and nobody notices, or maybe nobody cares? I don't know, I'm a stiller, not a psychologist.
But it isn't too far fetched to say that for the purpose of fermenting a wash or mash, and only as long as there is yeast activity lowering the Ph,that it works as a buffer when used in reasonable amounts. Wouldn't you agree?
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Re: My First Rum

Post by NZChris »

jb-texshine wrote:
NZChris wrote:I don't know when I first mentioned it.
It's an example of Chinese Whispers. Someone says they successfully used shells as a buffer, they are misquoted as saying they are a buffer, someone else assumes that because they read somewhere that yeast likes a pH of 5.5 then that is what they buffer at and adds that to the misquote, someone else can't get whole shells so makes it chicken grit, and so on ad infinitum..... Then a reputable member posts the science behind it and nobody notices, or maybe nobody cares? I don't know, I'm a stiller, not a psychologist.
But it isn't too far fetched to say that for the purpose of fermenting a wash or mash, and only as long as there is yeast activity lowering the Ph,that it works as a buffer when used in reasonable amounts. Wouldn't you agree?
Agree? That is what I've been advocating ever since my first post on the subject.
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Re: My First Rum

Post by Old Town »

Shit guys sorry to poke the bear wasn't trying too start an argument. Once again trial and error this is all a learning experience for me. I haven't even opened the lid on the fermenter been too busy with the holiday coming up tomorrow. I think I'm going to fire up the still on Saturday. Too everyone in the states happy turkey day. Sorry for overdoing it on the shells. I'll let you know how it turns out on Saturday. Well I'll get the stripping runs done on Saturday anyhow. Maybe a while longer before I have time to do the spirit run.
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Re: My First Rum

Post by Old Town »

So I was looking at the DADs300 thread and noticed a conversation between Bearriver and Truckinbutch. Looks like I'm not the only one to use a lot of shells in a ferment.
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Re: My First Rum

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

Old Town wrote:So I was looking at the DADs300 thread and noticed a conversation between Bearriver and Truckinbutch. Looks like I'm not the only one to use a lot of shells in a ferment.
You won't be the last. That's the point, don't be confused. Throw as much in there as you like. You'll be fine.

Here's another good read. I put way more calcium carbonate (marble slab) then needed. All was good.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p7478320
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Re: My First Rum

Post by DAD300 »

We're doing 200 gallon rum ferments now...and I still use oyster shell.

I've moved far from the ocean so I use ground shells from the feed store. The stuff meant for chickens. Make sure I buy the raw shell with no vitamins added. Probably should try the stuff with vitamins. Wash it and get rid of some of the fines.

We still 150 gallons at a time and ferment 200 gallons at a time. Our ferments are "continuous!" 50 gallons of previous hot stillage (dunder) used to melt/invert 300Lbs of panela (raw first cook sugar), dumped in on the 50 gallons of last ferment left in the fermenter, and topped off to 200 gallons with cold water. Next day we pitch additional yeast. Usually the old ferment has already kicked off on the new and the additional yeast is just insurance.

We put about two pounds in a nylon net bag and hang it in the ferment. If the ferment starts to drop Ph we add more shell to the bag until the Ph slows dropping. In a week the 200 gallon ferment eats almost a half pound of oyster shell.

The Ph isn't rock steady! It drops and rises based on the state of the ferment action. Usually starts around 4.5ish and goes down to 3.9ish before it settles at 4.0ish. But the taste tells me the yeast hasn't stressed. I actually get a yeast colony clinging to the nylon bag unless I keep it stirred. And can see the area around the bag fizzing.

I'll try to get some pics, but it's really that simple.

The Sg starts about 1.08 and finishes in 3-7 days. The Sg is a little weird because of the alcohol in the 50 gallons left in the fermenter.

Right now it takes seven days because the temp in the building is running 50F. But the temp in the fermenter is staying 76-80F due to fermentation exothermic action and a 500watt stainless steel aquarium heater. At 90F+ it finishes in three to four days.
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Re: My First Rum

Post by jb-texshine »

DAD300 wrote:We're doing 200 gallon rum ferments now...and I still use oyster shell.

I've moved far from the ocean so I use ground shells from the feed store. The stuff meant for chickens. Make sure I buy the raw shell with no vitamins added. Probably should try the stuff with vitamins. Wash it and get rid of some of the fines.

We still 150 gallons at a time and ferment 200 gallons at a time. Our ferments are "continuous!" 50 gallons of previous hot stillage (dunder) used to melt/invert 300Lbs of panela (raw first cook sugar), dumped in on the 50 gallons of last ferment left in the fermenter, and topped off to 200 gallons with cold water. Next day we pitch additional yeast. Usually the old ferment has already kicked off on the new and the additional yeast is just insurance.

We put about two pounds in a nylon net bag and hang it in the ferment. If the ferment starts to drop Ph we add more shell to the bag until the Ph slows dropping. In a week the 200 gallon ferment eats almost a half pound of oyster shell.

The Ph isn't rock steady! It drops and rises based on the state of the ferment action. Usually starts around 4.5ish and goes down to 3.9ish before it settles at 4.0ish. But the taste tells me the yeast hasn't stressed. I actually get a yeast colony clinging to the nylon bag unless I keep it stirred. And can see the area around the bag fizzing.

I'll try to get some pics, but it's really that simple.

The Sg starts about 1.08 and finishes in 3-7 days. The Sg is a little weird because of the alcohol in the 50 gallons left in the fermenter.

Right now it takes seven days because the temp in the building is running 50F. But the temp in the fermenter is staying 76-80F due to fermentation exothermic action and a 500watt stainless steel aquarium heater. At 90F+ it finishes in three to four days.
Dad, the manna pro oyster shells also have crushed coral which is high in magnesium and calcium both. Comes in 3# and a bigger one that looks like 20# but I'm not sure as I only buy the small. Good stuff.
jbt
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Re: My First Rum

Post by Shine0n »

Thanks DAD300 for that post :thumbup:
SCD I also mentioned your thread on pg 2, not sure if OT looked it up but I've read that thread and I thank you for that, I'm actually still looking for a slab myself to no luck yet because everyone around these parts all have granite, even in the baths.

OT, you and I speak frequently and I tell you what i do, it's definitely not the only way bUT is a way. The most important thing about the way I do my rum is temp control! That alone is what makes my ferments fast to the point I don't have much ph problems but I add the shells to buffer because shit happens, cold snaps, power outages, LIFE!!!!
Since you were trying my recipe I just give you the advice that worked for me, ALOT of people make rum around here and to much success I'll add so now you see there are many ways to skin the cat. lol

If you done like I said you'll get the same rum I enjoy, hell you may like it too, the long ferment may work out to your advantage or maybe not but I didn't get it right the first or 2nd.... it took some trial and error to find the ratios I liked best, I wasn't a rum guy AT ALL until I made this one and is why I documented it step by step and now is the only one I use.
Since you don't have a thumper yet you'll be doing strip runs followed by a spirit run its somewhat different than my original recipe but now falls into my dunder recipe, I still suggest you do a spirit run without the dunder so you get a drinkable drink sooner than later or if you have the sack to do it 《- JOKE then go lighter on the dunder for now till you have a firm grasp on it and it's flavors.

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Re: My First Rum

Post by Old Town »

I did read SCD's thread on the marble very interesting. My wife works for a company that does counter tops so I may have a hookup on some marble..
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Re: My First Rum

Post by Old Town »

Getting ready for the stripping runs tomorrow.. I've let it sit and there is no fizzing bubbling or any sign of life. It's very bitter so I'm calling it done. The hydrometer is reading 1.048 and I know that's high but I started with a very high reading. Will see how it goes tomorrow.
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Re: My First Rum

Post by Old Town »

On the other hand I know shells ended up being a major topic on this thread. So yes I will admit I over did it on the shells there is a lot of them in the bottom of the fermenter. I don't think they hurt anything but I won't know until I run it and take a taste. I was careful not to get my syphon to close too the bottom and suck up any crushed shells.
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Re: My First Rum

Post by NZChris »

You don't actually 'know' that you've overdone it. You've done an experiment I would rather not do and I'm interested in the results, like the state and smells in the trub etc..

My guess is that using a large excess probably doesn't matter as long as the ferment proceeds in a timely manner and is distilled before the excess has a chance to raise pH too far. The worst case would be having to leave a wash undistilled because of unexpected work or family obligations and not being able/forgetting to remove the excess grit.

BTW, I checked the records for my latest rum and I had some shells ready for if I needed them, but they didn't get used. Kept above 95F, it finished dry in three days at pH 4. Six days later, when I distilled it, it was still 4.
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Re: My First Rum

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Its now been about 7 days since you dumped all that extra stuff into what was a rum wash that was fizzing away quite happily.
A normal rum wash without all sorts of fiddling with PH levels and the adding of all of that garbage will ferment out in about the same time...quite often less.
What have you really learned from this ?
I suggest that the next time you put down a rum wash you put two down....throw what ever PH adjusting stuff you like in one ...leave the other to do its thing in peace.
See which ferments out first or if one is finished before the other.
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Re: My First Rum

Post by Old Town »

Saltbush Bill wrote:Its now been about 7 days since you dumped all that extra stuff into what was a rum wash that was fizzing away quite happily.
A normal rum wash without all sorts of fiddling with PH levels and the adding of all of that garbage will ferment out in about the same time...quite often less.
What have you really learned from this ?
I suggest that the next time you put down a rum wash you put two down....throw what ever PH adjusting stuff you like in one ...leave the other to do its thing in peace.
See which ferments out first or if one is finished before the other.


That's not a bad idea I think I'll do that.
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Re: My First Rum

Post by Old Town »

I honestly think my biggest issue with this one was temperature. I had known way of controlling the temp inside the fermenter. I had this one next too the bed in my room. I kept it as warm in their as I could handle it but I sleep with a fan at night. I know it was much cooler in their at night so I'm sure that didn't help. Next time I'm getting an aquarium heater too control my temp.
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