Fruit wash/Brandy (to age?)

[distiller_dresden]

So here's what I got!

I am making a brandy, as follows:
5 gallons distilled water
4 lbs dark brown sugar / 5 lbs white sugar / 2.5 lbs honey *these are all my sugar options on hand
DADY distillers yeast
Fermax yeast nutrient
pectic enzyme powder
10lbs frozen blueberries (which I'll thaw the fruit first)
10lbs frozen cherries
lime juice (2 tbsp for the mash-in)


I have a 5 gallon copper pot still, a thumper, and that into my worm. My pot still arm angles down about 10-15 degrees into my thumper. I have a propane burner, and I use a steel plate between my pot and the burner for a bit of indirect heat and to not scorch my nice copper pot.

Wondering, use the brown sugar, it was just my idea because (I'm new to all this) I was thinking I'd get a richer flavor out of it with the molasses, yes or no? I really would like to get a GREAT fruit flavor with this, and I have 2lbs of charred French oak chips to age on once I'm distilled and cut...

Would I be better off with only white sugar? Or half or a mix of white and honey? What does honey do/add to a run, I am guessing some nutrients, or no?

Can you give me info about that 'cap' as far as 'mold' or mixing if necessary while it's fermenting, is that necessary??

Could I run fruit only, or would that not yield me a high enough ABV? I'm looking to filter and run my result (after 7-10 days, maybe two weeks, after my must has dropped) through the still without racking or a second fermentation. I think with allowing it to settle after I siphon off the clear and then cheesecloth that before I run it, I'll be golden/no yeast worries, right?

I also have a 50lb bag of cracked corn on hand for making corn whiskey. Would the addition of any corn without sugar, or corn with sugar, be beneficial or negative to my goal to making a rich fruit-flavored brandy?

I am a sponge for knowledge, looking to absorb and freely admitting I don't know, so be gentle. If I've said something sacrilege, let me know! Looking forward to hearing from the community.

[TDick]

Welcome Dresden!
I posted this in Welcome Newcomers and glad to see you started a new thread. I deleted it over there:

Here are some choices from T&T - ALWAYS the place to start for us Noobs:
Taters Blueberrie Liqueur
This is from 2017 and +Tater is a long time "hobbyist".

Also in other forums:
Blackberry Liquer
Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

I'm interested in Blackberry Something but BB Brandy & BB Flavored Moonshine, I haven't found any of that that tasted decent.
So look through these and other forums find a good recipe including the method and keep us up to date.

[fizzix]

Hey we meet again, distiller_dresden.
Brown sugar just has residual molasses in it which gives a richer, "rum-ish" facet to some varying degree. Give 'er a shot. Won't hurt.
Next time, like TDick suggested is to go with a Tried and True Recipe. The guesswork is taken out and the recipes have been proven over and over to work.
Makes it easier to troubleshoot if you run into trouble, too.

Here's a powerful gift for you: The HD Google Search at the top of the page...

The search results are confined to answers within Home Distiller. Search for brown sugar, honey, etc. and entire discussions will open up for you.

F'rinstance. I searched honey and immediately found that it is a tough, incomplete ferment and is often put in a "thumper" for better results.
Don't worry, though, you have the right amount of sugar to pull this one off. Check this Sugar Wash Calculator from our parent site.

And unless your tap water just plain sucks, don't use distilled water. You're robbing your wash of minerals and other ingredients found in tap water. Cheaper too (unless you distill your own).
Lastly, read Spoonfeeding to really kick yourself into high gear. You'll often find that the more questions you ask, the more you'll be told to research on your own.
I have given you tremendous help (if I say so myself ) as others have helped me, so do your part and read, read, read! Good luck on your journey my friend.

[distiller_dresden]

I don't see this 'hd google search' you speak of... I have a 'search' with 'advanced search' under it at the top right. When I search 'honey' or 'brown sugar' I get, well, a LOT of results for every time anyone was mentioned these things in any context. I was hoping someone might know immediately off the top of their years' experience the pros and cons of honey, what it adds, and doesn't, if it has nutrients, or what have you... I'll toy around with advanced search though. I've been all through the spoonfeeding and all the intro/new/training newbie threads so I'm up to speed as to how to be. I went all through the recipes pages looking for something just like my recipe and only the 'berries' one and taters blueberry was similar/close. My settled recipe was actually from a second post down or so from a 'pothead' in the berries (I believe) post.

[cranky]

Give 'er a shot. Won't hurt.

Actually it can and many beginners have found that the flavors produced by the brown sugar do hurt considerably when it comes to fruit.

If you want rum make rum, if you want brandy with fruit flavor make it with fruit and if you want whiskey make something with grain. Different fermentables give off different flavors and get cut in different places during a run and can put out conflicting flavors that don't play well with each other.

I was actually involved in a long drawn out response in that post that got deleted just as I hit submit and I lost the whole damn thing. I'm not going to type it all again but the short version is if you add something flavored it is going to add flavors which can conflict with your goal of fruit and even dominate it to the point of not being able to taste the fruit at all. Even plain old white sugar produces it's own flavor but mostly it will water down the final flavors making them more elusive.

Brandy seems like a simple thing but it really isn't, it is complicated, time consuming and needs to sit after you make it in order to develop.

I think this is probably what you are actually looking for
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2196
Just scale to the size you want

[StillerBoy]

I'll toy around with advanced search though.

What fizzin is referring too is not the advanced search, as it will give you not as précised a result.. the one he is guiding you to use is in the light blue area, first one, then follow what he have posted in the picture, it will give a much more precise result..

But, haven said that, there will still be reading to be done..

Mars

[distiller_dresden]

Cranky,

I apologize for that, that delete is my fault... I am up to speed now, however.


So my question for you Cranky, white sugar only, I see now; what then do you say - 10 lbs blueberries, 10 lbs dark cherries, I only have DADY and nutrient on hand, could I go fruit only for the best flavor, or would I not get enough/best ABV from that for a distill? Do I need the white sugar for the ABV?

I AM all about making a complex aged brandy on charred French oak chips I bought though, if I can pull it off, because even my own 'simple' aged blue-cherry-berry brandy sounds freaking divine...

and StillerBoy -oh, you actually mean they meant FROM Google, searching via/with the webpage entered, ah; I never did that before...

[cranky]

So my question for you Cranky, white sugar only, I see now; what then do you say - 10 lbs blueberries, 10 lbs dark cherries, I only have DADY and nutrient on hand, could I go fruit only for the best flavor, or would I not get enough/best ABV from that for a distill? Do I need the white sugar for the ABV?

OK so here is the long version
Blueberries can run as low as 8 brix or as high as 18 brix. What that translates to is they will land somewhere between 4 and 10% potential alcohol. Cherries can run as high as 23 Brix, which is 13.6% potential alcohol. You can probably rely on at least 6% alcohol from most fruit juices if you don't water them down. There is actually a lot of bad information out there regarding some fruits such as blackberries. I used to constantly read posts where people talked about how low the sugar content of blackberries is and it simply isn't true. Some may be that way just like any other fruit may have low sugar depending on when they are picked. My experience with blackberries is I get at least 6% alcohol from blackberry juice without adding sugar. That doesn't mean it doesn't take a lot of blackberries to make a bottle but it is because blackberries are mostly seed and only about 1/3rd juice, so it takes a lot of blackberries to make enough juice to make a bottle of brandy. I think the figure I came up with was something like 40 pounds of blackberries to make a bottle of brandy. Most fruit takes a lot to make enough juice to actually distill. Cherries tend to be better than blackberries but they do have large pits. I can't tell you anything from weight, I only go by gallons or five gallon bucket fulls. A hydrometer or refractometer will tell you exactly what you have as far as sugar.

If you go to the fruity goodness thread ( viewtopic.php?f=94&t=48881&hilit=fru&start=1200 ) you can see what I did with my latest mixed fruit. I think out of somewhere around 11 gallons of straight fruit juice I got 2 bottles of brandy at 80Pr but it is the most fruit flavor I could get.

The truth is you have to decide exactly how much of what you are willing to sacrifice. If you add brown sugar, you sacrifice fruit flavor for molasses flavor. if you use white sugar, you sacrifice fruit flavor for volume. If you go straight fruit you sacrifice volume for flavor. It's up to you to decide if you are willing to take chances with types of fermetables or how much flavor you are willing to sacrifice.

Yeast types fall in the same kind of category of sacrifices. Some yeast types don't play well with certain fermentables but work with others. Never under any circumstances use bread yeast with fruit. I personally wouldn't use most grain yeasts for fruit because they do better with grains. Wine yeasts are better for fruit and some are better than others. Some yeast are known to add things to the ferment, like fruity esters that may be desired, some might add things that are not desired. I personally don't like DADY for fruit because I feel it is really for grain, in a pinch I would use it over bread yeast but I feel if possible it's better to prepare in advance for what you want to make if you want a specific result. I always recommend EC-1118 for a beginner with fruit because it ferments clean so it doesn't add or take away any flavors.

Another thing you have to consider is temperature you ferment at. Do not exceed the temperature the yeast want to work at, lower is usually ok but takes longer, higher will cause them to start throwing off flavors you may not want.

Time is one of the most important thing to add to a fruit ferment. Don't get in a hurry, let it finish and clear when it is ready to do so.

Then there are cuts, different flavors come off at different parts of the run. Fruit usually requires looser cuts, particularly heads but can vary greatly depending on the fruit. So cuts can be hard, particularly if other flavors from added fermentables and different strains of yeast are present.

Last is aging, Your brandy will not taste like fresh fruit right off the still, or ever for that matter. There will be a hint of fruit that if you do everything right should develop over time but what you will get with the final product is the ghost of the original fruit to make the final spirit.

[distiller_dresden]

Thanks very much this is a lot of excellent information! My temperature is very well controlled, I have a submersible heater that holds at 75*F. I didn't start my mash yet, taking Tater's advice to slow down. I am debating the sugar; maybe I'll use a lb of brown and 3 of white and 1 of honey... What does honey do/add or take away, if you don't mind?

The timing/letting it clear, it's just a matter of the cap/must dropping, right, it drops and it's done?

I may order some of the EC-1118 up; would it still like some yeast nutrient added with it?

Oh, do I need to add pectic I have?

Again -- thank you, thank you VERY much for replying with all this really great information to assist me. I'm waiting and learning so I can start this mash with a lot of great knowledge.

[cranky]

I forgot to add to that post that of course all that is just my opinion. Some may say otherwise but I spend a lot of my distilling time on fruit.

The timing/letting it clear, it's just a matter of the cap/must dropping, right, it drops and it's done?

Yes and no, the cap may drop before it is done. A hydrometer is a better way to tell, I just wait until it stops bubbling in the airlock...actually I wait until it sucks back on the airlock and seldom if ever run it before 30 days, often going as long as 3 or 4 months or even as much as a year. Most people don't go to such extremes, I do it because I have personally noticed a change in the wine/ ferment around the 2 to 3 month point that I feel helps the final product. I could be wrong, after all I was wrong once

I may order some of the EC-1118 up; would it still like some yeast nutrient added with it?

I would, it only takes one package for 5 gallons. 75F is actually about the top of the scale for 1118 it likes cooler temps than many others. added nutrients are probably a good thing to help with a healthy ferment.

You don't have to if you don't want to if you are going to distill it. There might be a pectic haze if you want to drink it as wine. I've read that pectic enzyme can add to the methanol production and also read it helps reduce it. I've never noticed a significant difference doing it either way.

This post pretty much explains most of the they hows and whys I do what I do, it's tailored to apples but for the most part I use the same method with any fruit.
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=68085//url

I can't really say anything about honey because I don't use it. I have read it can slow down a ferment but there isn't much 1118 cant handle, maybe some of the honey guys will chime in on that one.

[fizzix]

And thanks Cranky for learnin' me about brown sugar and fruit. Sure SEEMED like it'd be good. Now I know to avoid it. Sorry for the bad advice.

[cranky]

And thanks Cranky for learnin' me about brown sugar and fruit. Sure SEEMED like it'd be good. Now I know to avoid it. Sorry for the bad advice.

It's OK, lots of people have made that mistake and few if any felt it turned out for the better.

When giving advice on fruit I try to keep in mind that fruit is either very expensive or very time consuming or both and often if you make a mistake you are stuck waiting another whole year before you can try it again or you have to spend a lot of money. So when new people are wanting to do brandy a cautioned approach is in order. There are many ways to make a simple mistake you will later regret and beginners may give up trying as a result. Now if someone has an abundance of fruit and or brandy and wants to start playing around with unconventional methods, different yeast or additives that's fine in my opinion, that's how we figure out whats right for us individually. However if it is someones first time there are certain things that will result in a proven best outcome and those are the methods that should be advised.

[Shine0n]

Cranky, you're the fn man!

Now about the honey as I've been doing alot of honey ferments. It will not add that "Honey" taste you may want even if added through the thumper, it will come over a little floral and a bit spicy but not the wow factor of honey.
I'll have to respectfully disagree about the incomplete ferment as I've had a 1.120 ferment go dry at .998

I think I'll agree with Cranky since he's helped me in the past, ec1118 is a great starter for fruit ferments, no sugar is best for flavors but I was hard headed and added some sugar to one of mine and although it turned out nice I could imagine what it would've been without.

If you are wanting a bit more abv I'd not go any more than .5 lb per gallon, as mentioned the more sugar...the less fruit flavors.
Brown sugar is great if added to molasses for a rum but not fruit, honey is best for mead or distilled on its own IMHO and the backset from honey will be a great addition for a corn likker ferment (Thanks jbt)

Shine0n

[distiller_dresden]

Okay, so the wash is ready, I filtered the mash last night. I have 5.5 gals of wine. This stuff is dark and rich, it tastes like a blueberry merlot, but DRY, and rich with body. ALMOST a blueberry cabernet sauv... It's hilarious I commented elsewhere that I've had a ton of worse wines than this mash I made in two weeks in a bucket lmao! I can't wait to see what kind of brandy this makes... I'm putting 32oz of this in the thumper too, to really get the flavor in there. This is the most excited I've been for a run yet because it's the most 'quality' I've put into a recipe yet, it's been corn runs or variations on up to now. Will update!