6kgs (13 lbs) of honey malt - what first will I make with it

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Jimy Dee
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6kgs (13 lbs) of honey malt - what first will I make with it

Post by Jimy Dee »

Folks

I dont know if this is the right place to put this but as this is going to be in advance of a first for me, I though I would look for some assistance in advance.

Bottom line is that I cocked up an order of grains over a year ago and the other day I noticed on the packaging that the best before date on honey malt was last month. So I need to use this up fast.
What will I do with it? I am looking for suggestions please.

I have my first honey bear bourbon down and it is fermenting away nicely, and as this recipe uses only a little of honey malt I do not intend to scale it up and knock out what is required to use 6 kgs/13lbs of honey malt.

I was thinking of doing 50% malted barley and 50% honey malt and making a drop for mixing/blending with other spirits later on. If this is a runner should I increase the amount of malted barley to honey malt? I just dont know. I read some where that it was suggested that honey malt should not represent more than 20% of a grain bill but that I presume is for drinking on its own.

Has any one with any comments or observations or suggestions PLEASE ?

Jimy
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Re: 6kgs (13 lbs) of honey malt - what first will I make wit

Post by fizzix »

Careful with that axe, Eugene! (Pink Floyd reference)
Honey Malt can get overwhelming above 10% of your bill. [Backup reference, from Gambrinus' site: https://www.northernbrewer.com/gambrinu ... honey-malt]
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Re: 6kgs (13 lbs) of honey malt - what first will I make wit

Post by der wo »

I have made Whisky with 100% speciality malts. Yes, it is intense, but I like it. It's less intense than peat monsters.
And honey malt is a relative normal malt compared to roasted ones.
The diastatic power of honey malt is high enough to convert itself, but liquid enzymes could help a bit. Or your plan 50:50 normal and honey malt sounds also good.

Yes, for beer don't overdo speciality malts, because it gets bitter. But for Whisky you can do what you want. The only problem is, that the darker the malted barley the less sugar you will get regardless of the amount of enzymes you add. So a 100% dark roasted malt must be a sugarhead.
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=61934
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Re: 6kgs (13 lbs) of honey malt - what first will I make wit

Post by fizzix »

Well Jimy Dee I'd believe der wo before I'd believe me. Go with his advice. Now I'm just curious!
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Re: 6kgs (13 lbs) of honey malt - what first will I make wit

Post by bilgriss »

I think a 50/50 would be a nice experiment. Probably going to have some sweetness.

And I'm really glad to see der wo on the forum!
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Re: 6kgs (13 lbs) of honey malt - what first will I make wit

Post by jonnys_spirit »

I might try that 50/50 with a wheat. I have a 100% wheat on oak now and it’s getting to be very smooth. I guess it’ll be a little pricey but honey nut cheerios are my fav and I reckon it’ll be easy enough to mash a good bit and run.

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Re: 6kgs (13 lbs) of honey malt - what first will I make wit

Post by ShineRunner »

der wo wrote:I have made Whisky with 100% speciality malts. Yes, it is intense, but I like it. It's less intense than peat monsters.
And honey malt is a relative normal malt compared to roasted ones.
The diastatic power of honey malt is high enough to convert itself, but liquid enzymes could help a bit. Or your plan 50:50 normal and honey malt sounds also good.

Yes, for beer don't overdo speciality malts, because it gets bitter. But for Whisky you can do what you want. The only problem is, that the darker the malted barley the less sugar you will get regardless of the amount of enzymes you add. So a 100% dark roasted malt must be a sugarhead.
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=61934
With all due respect der wo, I disagree with your last statement there. 100% dark roasted malt does still have some sugars available. It would not HAVE to be a sugarhead, but would be very expensive and inefficient as an all grain. It would be unable to convert itself and would require enzymes from somewhere else, but it does contribute some sugar..

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-2/wha ... alt-yields" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Shows a PPG of 22 for roasted malt and 24 for chocolate. That’s vs 31 for a typical 2 row.

Not trying to get into a beef, or to take the thread off topic. Just want to make sure there is correct information out there..

Cheers,
SR
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Re: 6kgs (13 lbs) of honey malt - what first will I make wit

Post by ShineRunner »

Back on topic.. I think you’re on track. Experiments are what moves our hobby forward. Perhaps no one has tried a 100% honey malt, or even 50/50. Try it and let us know! It could be the next tried and true, like HBB.

As another side note, I made a chocolate rye, with only a small amount of chocolate, and it’s way too much for me. It’s still young (6-7 months) so it’ll probably get better. But there is some virtue in being sparse with dark heavy roasted malts. Honey malt is not one of those animals and I think it would be pretty decent in larger amounts. If you’re really not going to use it up in the HBB, I would try the 50/50 and if it’s too strong, use it as a flavoring for later brews. Could add an interesting note to things.

SR
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Re: 6kgs (13 lbs) of honey malt - what first will I make wit

Post by HDNB »

ShineRunner wrote:
der wo wrote:I have made Whisky with 100% speciality malts. Yes, it is intense, but I like it. It's less intense than peat monsters.
And honey malt is a relative normal malt compared to roasted ones.
The diastatic power of honey malt is high enough to convert itself, but liquid enzymes could help a bit. Or your plan 50:50 normal and honey malt sounds also good.

Yes, for beer don't overdo speciality malts, because it gets bitter. But for Whisky you can do what you want. The only problem is, that the darker the malted barley the less sugar you will get regardless of the amount of enzymes you add. So a 100% dark roasted malt must be a sugarhead.
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=61934
With all due respect der wo, I disagree with your last statement there. 100% dark roasted malt does still have some sugars available. It would not HAVE to be a sugarhead, but would be very expensive and inefficient as an all grain. It would be unable to convert itself and would require enzymes from somewhere else, but it does contribute some sugar..

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-2/wha ... alt-yields" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Shows a PPG of 22 for roasted malt and 24 for chocolate. That’s vs 31 for a typical 2 row.

Not trying to get into a beef, or to take the thread off topic. Just want to make sure there is correct information out there..

Cheers,
SR
I'm no maltster either, but it occurs to me that roasted malt should have the same sugar and starch as it's original form but some would be dextrinized by mailliard effect. i believe (i guess?) this is what accounts for the difference in PPG?
so would additional enzymes not help break the dextrins down to mono saccharides?
some testing is in order, and i'm just switching production to all-malt! woo! experiments!
can we get some suggestions? i think og/fg on some weighed material should at least shine some light on the idea.
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Re: 6kgs (13 lbs) of honey malt - what first will I make wit

Post by der wo »

ShineRunner wrote:http://howtobrew.com/book/section-2/wha ... alt-yields
Shows a PPG of 22 for roasted malt and 24 for chocolate. That’s vs 31 for a typical 2 row.
The brewers ppg calcs only care about the OG and are about small amounts of roasted malts. Something like 5%. Roasted malts will affect the OG similar like normal malts, but it's not sugar, it's unfermentable, regardless how much enzymes you add. After roasting it's not starch anymore, it's unrepairable burned.
Read the thread I linked. I have an example there: A 100% EBC 1100-1200 Carafa malt Whisky mash with an overdose liquid enzymes started 1.069 and finished 1.050. That's only 2.5% abv. Only 1/4 of the ppgs are fermentable.
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Re: 6kgs (13 lbs) of honey malt - what first will I make wit

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

With kilned malts, remember OG is one thing FG is another.
I would guess the heat creates some unfermentables.

Der Wo doesn’t need to guess, he done it. :lol:

Edit: posted with der wo.
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Re: 6kgs (13 lbs) of honey malt - what first will I make wit

Post by ShineRunner »

So you’re agreeing that there was some sugars huh? Just being a smarta$$ :think:

Yup. I jumped the gun on that one. I forgot about fermentability of the sugars vs “sugar content” with the dark roasts.. Can I blame it on the lack of getting my dark roasted coffee yet?

I’ll take my whipping now :oops:

SR
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Re: 6kgs (13 lbs) of honey malt - what first will I make wit

Post by JellybeanCorncob »

ShineRunner wrote:Back on topic.. I think you’re on track. Experiments are what moves our hobby forward. Perhaps no one has tried a 100% honey malt, or even 50/50. Try it and let us know! It could be the next tried and true, like HBB.

As another side note, I made a chocolate rye, with only a small amount of chocolate, and it’s way too much for me. It’s still young (6-7 months) so it’ll probably get better. But there is some virtue in being sparse with dark heavy roasted malts. Honey malt is not one of those animals and I think it would be pretty decent in larger amounts. If you’re really not going to use it up in the HBB, I would try the 50/50 and if it’s too strong, use it as a flavoring for later brews. Could add an interesting note to things.

SR
Nearly 2 years ago I made 2 six gallon batches of Nccooch’s Bourbon. I added 1/4 pound of chocolate rye, fine milled, to each batch. It wasn’t bad right off the still. At 6 months it was undrinkable. At a year the same. At 14 months it was unreal
In my opinion. And to others who tried it as well. I can’t Imagine what it would be like in 2 years. I’m going to make some more soon. The advice I got here at HD was sound. Chocolate malts take time. In my humble limited experience.

Jimy: Go for it. Do the experiment, put it on oak and let it sit for a year. But only if you report back on how it’s progressing. :ewink:

My side note: Good to see that der wo and his dorky avatar around here again.
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Re: 6kgs (13 lbs) of honey malt - what first will I make wit

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

JBC,

I need to get you some HWB so you can see what I mean about a small amount of honey malt.

Jimy,
I'll PM you about honey malt and my experience.

RHB
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Re: 6kgs (13 lbs) of honey malt - what first will I make wit

Post by HDNB »

der wo wrote:
ShineRunner wrote:http://howtobrew.com/book/section-2/wha ... alt-yields
Shows a PPG of 22 for roasted malt and 24 for chocolate. That’s vs 31 for a typical 2 row.
The brewers ppg calcs only care about the OG and are about small amounts of roasted malts. Something like 5%. Roasted malts will affect the OG similar like normal malts, but it's not sugar, it's unfermentable, regardless how much enzymes you add. After roasting it's not starch anymore, it's unrepairable burned.
Read the thread I linked. I have an example there: A 100% EBC 1100-1200 Carafa malt Whisky mash with an overdose liquid enzymes started 1.069 and finished 1.050. That's only 2.5% abv. Only 1/4 of the ppgs are fermentable.
well damn, here i thought i had the basis for an experiment that might be of some use. shoulda known it was already done.

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Re: 6kgs (13 lbs) of honey malt - what first will I make wit

Post by Jimy Dee »

Thanks boys for the replies. I will make a 50:50 malted barley : honey malt and see how it goes. I intend to keep it for blending if it is too strong. Time is against me as the best before for the malt was last month. Any type of experiment is better than throwing it out. I will report in the fullness of time. A good man just gave me his own bourbon recipe and it has taken first place in the queue of what has to be done next. Jimy
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Re: 6kgs (13 lbs) of honey malt - what first will I make wit

Post by Rocodog »

I have made a rye with 25% chocolate rye added and as everyone before me has stated.... it was way too intense. It does mellow with age though. What it is useful for is blending in small amounts with other whiskeys. I have made the same mistake with Gambrinus Honey Malt. A little is good so 10 times that amount will be sooooo much better right? Not really. Doesn't work that way. But that whiskey ages well also. And it makes a great blending agent when you want to add a touch of sweetness to another experiment.

Experiment with it. Have fun with it. Do not dump it if it is bad. Let it sit and take a sip every now and again. Tell everyone how it goes.
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