Brew Shed Set Up?

[GCB3]

My new hobby is starting to get on my wife’s nerves. I don’t get it. What’s wrong with a large fermenter in her shower for a week? A man sometimes needs a lot of hot water! So, I’m starting to think about relocating my operation. Luckily, I have a 11x19 room off the garage that I can convert.

It has a tile floor (no floor drain). There is tap water to an old mop sink with a wall drain and it has a power panel with room for new cuircuits. There is no heat or air, but I can open it up in hot weather without any prying eyes. Winters are mild around here but it will be uncomfortable to create the needed ventilation and will make getting a rum ferment up to temp difficult.

My first plan is to buy surplus SS restaurant sink and some work tables. Add a small water heater and extra circuits. I’m trying to scale everything towards 12 gal ferments to fit my current equipment. So far I’m concentrating on rum washes. Not sure if I’ll graduate to AG’s or not (and don’t even know what that requires yet).

What else do I need to consider to make this an efficient set up? Also, It’s an OLD structure with all kinds of air leaks and enough spiders and roaches to beat a small army. I’m a little concerned about using an exterminator for 1.) Chemicals around the equipment and 2. Technicians around the equipment. Anybody have a decent way to fight the bug battle in their shed?

Thanks for your time.

[HDNB]

farm supply store. get you some pyritherin. spray a bit around the room when you leave everyday for about 2 weeks. no more flying/crawling bugs.

[Expat]

Sounds like a good size space, more than I have in my brew room anyways lol

You mentioned an electrical panel, does it have sufficient service for your needs? Presumably you're running electric since you're working indoors.

[Bushman]

There is no heat or air, but I can open it up in hot weather without any prying eyes. Winters are mild around here but it will be uncomfortable to create the needed ventilation and will make getting a rum ferment up to temp difficult.

Consider building a heat controlled area for fermenting. I insulated a cart and use an aquarium controller and switched to a lightbulb for heat.

[GCB3]

Thanks for the replies.

HDNB: thanks, I’m not familiar with pyritherin. Is this for pretreatment before I set the room up or do you use this periodically? I can only assume all equipment is covered when spraying?

Expat: I do have enough capacity to take care of most everything unless I get advice on this thread that is going to require a lot more electricity! Right now I’m running two 1500 watt bayonet heaters which means I have to use separate circuits. So, having extension cords running from the kitchen AND livingroom to the back porch seems to piss her off too! Geez!

Bushman: That is sweeeeeeeeet! I particularly like the wheels. I’m using a 16 gal fermenter and I now have to bring the water to it (Hence the shower ). Being able to make it mobile would be a great improvement.

[Mike6090]

Living in the south I know a lot about beating back roaches and palmetto bugs or cockroaches. They are nasty. I use ortho home defense. You can buy it in a 1 gal sprayer. Spray every corner, seam, edge and doorway in your home inside and outside once a week for a month and then once every couple months. Sweep up and trash every roach as soon as you see it. Seal all your food and supplies so they are safe from the roaches and spray. This means the sink and dishes have to be put away after every meal and all surfaces cleaned and wiped down. It’s a lot of work but you have to treat roaches as a whole house issue. Take away their food is 90% of the issue and then make where they live poisonous to them. (Not saying your house is dirty. Just that I have been there).

Sounds like a cool place. Get an electric heater and a couple heat bands for your fermenters.

[Expat]

Power is of course driven by what you want to do with it. It's a common suggestion to have 30a of 240v available as this would let you use a 5500 watt element with some headroom.

I started in a similar setup to you with a pair of 1500 watt elements. A fine start but it can be time consuming for heat up if you go with a keg boiler or similar.

[GCB3]

Thanks Mike. Sounds like you’re familiar with “ Palmetto Bugs”. Geez, what a euphemism!!!
One nice thing is I can really hit it hard while I’m cleaning everything out and getting it set up. Maybe I can get ahead of them.
A heater will be required Nov-early March. I’m kind of likening Bushman’s insulated cart. I’m getting to old to even wanting to haul a full 6 gal bucket very far! I’ll PM you. Who knows, we may be in the same general area.

[jonnys_spirit]

I'm redoing some stuff in my "basement shed / workshop" and will probably figure out how to add a dedicated sub-panel with enough amps so I can make a couple dedicated 220V and 120V drops to run heaters in different boilers.

Cheers!
jb

[GCB3]

[quote="Expat"]Power is of course driven by what you want to do with it. It's a common suggestion to have 30a of 240v available as this would let you use a 5500 watt element with some headroom.

I’m not sure I will ever need that much power. I have a 15 gal kettle and it’s a lot more work than I had imagined feeding this “beast”. But, it’s probably pretty good advice. Once the electrician is doing his thing, adding one more outlet w/ 220 in going to be a drop in the bucket compared to where I’ve been. Paraphrasing someone in the noobie required reading, “Don’t start this hobby to make linker fir a cheap drunk!”. How true, how true!

[goose eye]

Bury you a big drum .make sure you have lines comein out of it so it can leech out. For your hot slops . if not get some lime.

Put you one of them cheep cameras so you can see
Before openin the door.

Put you a big fan in the lourver end of building.
It'll keep it bareable in the summer.

Get you a engine hoist and change the wheels to bigger ones. Easier to work with. Use it to lift an drain or lift an pour or x y an z.

So I'm tole

[Bushman]

Bushman: That is sweeeeeeeeet! I particularly like the wheels. I’m using a 16 gal fermenter and I now have to bring the water to it (Hence the shower ). Being able to make it mobile would be a great improvement.

I can hold two eight gallon or three 6 gallon fermenters. The front has a sheet of insulation that sit on L brackets attached towards the bottom of the cart. I use ratchet straps to hold it on so easy to remove.

[GCB3]

You, sir, are quite an in-gin-ear!

[GCB3]

While I’m thinking about all this, I have a question on cooling water. The shed has county water which is really expensive. I also have a well that I use for outdoors watering etc. There isn’t a well line to the garage, so I’d either have to run a well line (which will be expensive), suck up the cost of city water or try a recycling water barrel. I have a 55 gal drum I could use for water if I can arrange cooling. I’ve only run stripping runs on my new equipment and a 12gal charge takes about 1 1/2 hr to boil (with the boiler insulated) and then another 2+ hrs to reach 15 pct. I’m guessing my first spirit run could go 6+ hrs.
I have a small, Lowe’s, deep freezer that I could use to create ice bags or blocks to cool the water barrel. Does anybody even have a guess how many 5 or 10 lb ice bags I would need to run the cooling water on recycle for say 6 hours? I don’t have a clue and my thermosdynamics is long gone!

Guess I’d want a fridge too to cool wash for settling, keep yeast, and beer. Oh man, this is gonna’ “trigger” my wife too!

[butterpants]

I love this place...

https://store.doyourownpestcontrol.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Long as they ship to your state, you can put down the same stuff whatever pro would be. Just research it a bit for active ingredients and match to pests.

I use Onslaught for spiders and Temprid SC for hornets. Add Pyrethrin if you have a big nest where you need knockdown power.

For the cost of 1 Orkin visit I was able to buy enough insecticide to do my whole house bimonthly for 2 years. [img]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201803 ... 63fd84.jpg[/img][img]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201803 ... 2bbfa6.jpg[/img]

[Mike6090]

While I’m thinking about all this, I have a question on cooling water. The shed has county water which is really expensive. I also have a well that I use for outdoors watering etc. There isn’t a well line to the garage, so I’d either have to run a well line (which will be expensive), suck up the cost of city water or try a recycling water barrel. I have a 55 gal drum I could use for water if I can arrange cooling. I’ve only run stripping runs on my new equipment and a 12gal charge takes about 1 1/2 hr to boil (with the boiler insulated) and then another 2+ hrs to reach 15 pct. I’m guessing my first spirit run could go 6+ hrs.
I have a small, Lowe’s, deep freezer that I could use to create ice bags or blocks to cool the water barrel. Does anybody even have a guess how many 5 or 10 lb ice bags I would need to run the cooling water on recycle for say 6 hours? I don’t have a clue and my thermosdynamics is long gone!

Guess I’d want a fridge too to cool wash for settling, keep yeast, and beer. Oh man, this is gonna’ “trigger” my wife too!

instead of using ice or cold water to cool the condenser instead use a cooling tower? A large box fan and simply redirecting the water to spray into the air stream should cool the water to usable temp. That is if it even exceeds the condensers design temp.

You can also get another cooling water drum and double your CW capacity. Just put your pump in the lower drum and the product condenser CW discharge in the upper drum that has an overflow line into the lower drum. 100 gal of cold well water should last a while.

[Bushman]

You might consider a fan cooling water system.
viewtopic.php?f=85&t=32707
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40987
viewtopic.php?f=87&t=21316&start=30

[GCB3]

Thanks guys. These are good ideas, however, I’m pretty sure the wife will not go for the nuclear power plant cooling tower! In the summertime, it’s 95 degrees and 90 to 95 pct humidity here, so, I’m guessing evaporator systems (like swamp coolers) would probably have to be really large to be effective.

I really like the radiator/fan idea. That way I can charge the water barrel, recycle it and really cut down on my water usage. Again, my thermo isn’t very good, but, if ambient is 95 degrees then that will be about the lower limit for cooling the returning water. With a 55 gal reservoir, it will take a while for 95 degree water to significantly affect the barrel outlet temp. I’ll have the chest freezer running in there anyway, so, I can always throw a bag of ice in if I need it.

[zapata]

The ice isn't free energy, even with freezer already running. It runs more to make ice than it does to just keep the victims frozen.

2nd for the ortho max. Clean thoroughly and treat inside while setting up. I keep a regular application going outside, and only reapply inside once they show up again. At my house that's often just once a year or less inside if I keep foundation/door/window/crawl space/attic treated at least twice a year.

[acfixer69]

"It runs more to make ice than it does to just keep the victims frozen". That's funny and very true. You must be a Invention I.D. fan. LOL

AC

[GCB3]

Zapata - those victims “no squeal”!!

After some studying, below is my list of needs. I’m using internal, electric heaters, no gas. There is a garden hose right outside the garage door, if needed.
Please .let me know what I’m missing (or don’t really need).

A large sink, preferably an old SS restaurant style with drain boards on both sides.
Hot and cold running water
A long hose spray nozzle from the sink for filling, rinsing, and washing buckets, fermenters, etc.
At least one long work table with drawers
Shelving, upper cabinates
Ample 110v power outlets and at least one 30amp, 220v outlet, good lighting.
Portable heat in winter (it’s a mild climate thank goodness)
Can’t afford to AC a workshop
Portable fans to remove fumes
Small chest freezer and a medium fridge
Fire extinguishers
Water recirculating system and a backup in case of pump failure
Good pest control plan

Thanks for your input.

[Expat]

Glad to see you got fire safety on the list

And since you'll be working with water AND power it's highly recommended that you install GFCIs on your outlets. Easy for the 120v, more challenging for the 240v, but it could save your life.

Oh, and a comfy chair

[GCB3]

Both are good points. I’m going to need WiFi also!

So far, I’ve been doing this on a wood decked, screen porch, so, isolating the boiler heat from the floor has been a requirement. I took a 15” square concrete stepping stone and laminated foil backed insulation on both sides. That plus I set the boiler on a set of Big Green Egg feet which raised it about 3/4” off the block. It kept the wood from even getting warm. One nice thing is this room has a tile floor so I can set the boiler just on the Egg feet.

[pfshine]

Gotta love a stillin room. One point on the cooling water supply. Calculate how much cooling you will need with test runs, then figure out how much water and electricity costs. I would be incredibly surprised if it turns out that your water costs more than the electricity used for the pumps and fans running.
Hell lots of things you can do with your waste hot water, water your lawn/garden, start a new ferment, put it in a large trash can and use it as a hot tub, lots of things.

[GCB3]

Good point, pfshine. We have “city” water here but it’s really expensive. I also have a well for watering the lawn, etc. It’s high in sulfur and you wouldn’t want to drink it without treatment. But, it makes great cooling water. That is what I’ve been using while “porch stillin”. My issue is that I don’t have a well pipe to the garage and getting one there will be a challenge (distanc, trees, septic system and house all in the way). But, it sure is simple to hook up a hose and turn the valve on! I need to explore getting well water over there somehow.
Thanks for getting me thinking along this line.

[DAD300]

Put some gutters on your shed and use the rain water. Easier than digging a line.

[GCB3]

I haven’t done any measurements, but, what’s a reasonable assumption on a flow rate per hour from a city water system garden hose wide open? It takes me about 2 hrs to do a 13-14 gal stripping run and about 4-5 hrs for a 7.5 gal spirit run. Guesstimate of gallons used?

[GCB3]

Guess “flow rate per hour” is rather redundant, isn’t it?

[pfshine]

No idea. It all depends on your condenser and how much you put through it. If you have a small inefficient one then you will use a lot more water than an efficient one. I hope you aren't running a 3/4" garden hose with wide open flow through your condenser, that would be extremely wasteful. You don't need much to just knock down the vapor and cool it a little. The vapor inlet side of the condenser should be hot to touch and the end should be cool. If you run too much water it can also cause huffing

[raketemensch]

While I do have a pretty sweet setup, we always want more, right?

When I put the slop sink in my space I thought it would be awesome to be able to just attach a hose to the faucet. It is nice to have, but I wish I’d put in a second set of hot/cold taps for hoses instead, as attaching/removing the hose all the time is a PITA, so I end up leaving the hose attached all the time. This often results in the hose flopping out of the sink and soaking the floor while I try to figure out where to put whatever hot/heavy thing I have in my hands to grab it. Even without water running that sucker can spew a lot.

I also wish I had the amps for a second, or ideally 3rd, 220 outlet. I run a single 5500w element in my keg boiler, but I’d love to upgrade to one of those 26 gallon boilers. It would take forever to heat up without a second element.

I also put a 5500w element in a 16-gallon pot so I can quickly boil up a specific amount of water — but I can’t do it while the still is running with only one 220 outlet. Being able to mash during a run would be awesome.

None of those are necessities, just wishes, so I feel pretty lucky. I also desperately need to build some shelves, but time is not my friend these days.