First reflux run...

Many like to post about a first successful ferment (or first all grain mash), or first still built/bought or first good run of the still. Tell us about all of these great times here.
Pics are VERY welcome, we drool over pretty copper 8)

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Scorpster
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First reflux run...

Post by Scorpster »

Been waiting months to try a reflux run on my still, been too busy making rum and whiskey to get some aging happening. So my still was setup as purchased in CM mode so was not sure what to expect, I had run it without the reflux condenser for my spirit runs. So I had a couple gallons of sweetfeed feints (after finishing off the bag, and not sure I would make that again, seemed grassy to me which could have just been too much stalk in the mix), a gallon of rum feints, I gallon of TPW low wines, a bottle of early sweetfeed, and a 7 gal batch of TPW. So 40L at 23%.
So poured the heat on till it got to about 70C, then backed it way off and let it slowly build up, took about 1.5 hrs for the vapour temp above the RC to start rising, then next thing I know my alchometer was bobbing at 98%, I dumped the parrot at about 400ml and it came back at 96.5%, vapour temp at 75.7C, it held this for about 6L before it started to slow down and by about 8L ABV was 95%, then it came crashing down quickly. Overall took 7 hours after running down to 10%.
So it seems like it was a textbook run, even did the vapour speed math and my wattage seemed very close to my calculation.
So it raised a couple questions.
Was my 98% reading simply due to it being foreshots?
The common complaint against the CM is fiddling with the RC temp but I never touched my needle valve the whole time, am I missing something? Seems like the eventual slowing of the vapour speed (more water content in the boiler) would cause a higher reflux ratio. Was I just lucky to be in a sweet spot?
It's been airing for 5 days and from my early tastes I can't believe how much flavour it has for being that pure. Not sure that's what I'm after so may re-run some/all of it.

So I'm calling it a success and thanking all you forum giants for lending me your shoulders.
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bluefish_dist
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Re: First reflux run...

Post by bluefish_dist »

Did you correct for temperature on your hydrometer reading? If you did it could just be an error in the hydrometer. My $8 one is 3 proof off from my $35 high accuracy ones. What is you altitude?
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still_stirrin
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Re: First reflux run...

Post by still_stirrin »

Scorpster wrote:Was my 98% reading simply due to it being foreshots?
Well, you’re “measuring” density and what you measured early in the run is the lightest density condensate...namely, foreshots and early heads. So, I’d say yes it was fores and lighter constituents in the wash. Perhaps some of the start of the ethanol too, which is also lighter than water such that the hydrometer will sink further into your parrot. It’s what would be expected.
Scorpster wrote:The common complaint against the CM is fiddling with the RC temp but I never touched my needle valve the whole time, am I missing something? Seems like the eventual slowing of the vapour speed (more water content in the boiler) would cause a higher reflux ratio. Was I just lucky to be in a sweet spot?
Perhaps. But you said you adjusted the heat input (lowering it) and that compensates for the vapor production. It sounds like you got the balance between reflux and output stabilized early and it continued to produce a steady stream. Or, did the collection rate vary throughout the run as well? You really didn’t give us the collection rate data, so it is speculation.

Did you learn somewhat from the experience? Are you coming to understand your still better?
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Re: First reflux run...

Post by Bushman »

bluefish_dist wrote:Did you correct for temperature on your hydrometer reading? If you did it could just be an error in the hydrometer. My $8 one is 3 proof off from my $35 high accuracy ones. What is you altitude?
This was the first thing that came to mind while reading your post. I always have a slightly different reading once my product has sat covered compared to the reading I get from the reading I get while doing the run with the alcoholmeter in the parrot.
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Re: First reflux run...

Post by Scorpster »

I didn't correct for temp but I am not at any altitude and my condensate was quite cool, but I did find it interesting that it took way less PC coolant flow than when running in pot still mode with a similar stream of output. My condenser was only hot for the first inch or two the whole run, and the stream of coolant was about the same as the stream of distillate. (Not surprising give the 540 cal phase change for water and the 160ish? cal phase change for ethanol).
The collection rate didn't noticeably change until the ABV started to fall, I wasn't all that concerned with any time factor this round but I'd estimate it collected at about 2L/Hr, consistent pencil stream.
I haven't done any blending yet so I can still do more accurate ABV measurements, but even corrected to room temp it's within 2% and I was probably running cooler than that. Will remeasure this weekend.
Think I might dilute it back down and rerun it as it was kind of a mishmash of mash, and (this time) I'm after a clean neutral.
Did I learn anything...well it's a Russian still made in China so all the video demos are in Russian, so I only had relative advice from my readings elsewhere and had no direct advice on how to run it, so I learned that the design seems to work well, when starting at 23%. I bought a second .5m column that I thought I might need, but not sure if I'd bother trying to go from regular wash strength to the "pure" strength. Also bought a tee that I can put below the RC and make an inner wound RC that drops down and makes it a VM still. However the way it ran this time that may never happen either.
The one surprise was my research seemed to indicate my RC output temp would want to be around 143F, but it never even got to 80F, but it is just a simple external jacket maybe 8" long, and I have pretty cool water supply. I thought about shoving some packing into it to help with the cooling but wanted to run it "stock" first time round. Also didn't bother with the direction of coolant flow in the RC as the thing is so short I felt it wouldn't make much difference and was easier to avoid an air pocket with the output at the top, good needle valves on both condenser outputs (from advice here) sure makes adjustments easier, plus I put a pressure regulator inline set down to 25lbs, as my house pressure varies between cut in (45) and cut out (65) pressures.
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Re: First reflux run...

Post by Scorpster »

Here's a pic. Consider hand slapped for silicon tube on output of parrot! And the light switch awaiting replacement.
Thats a chopped restaurant equipment stand and 8' stainless restaurant prep table with built in sink. Faucet supply is seperate from regulated coolant supply. You can see both my induction hot plate and internal element controller.
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MoonBreath
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Re: First reflux run...

Post by MoonBreath »

143° reflux temp would almost match your takeoff temp = no reflux..Thats why you're gettn the accurate sourced temp.
Don't get to wrapped up in figures and guess work..Feel that thang.
You would prolly be in pot mode ifn reflux gets that hot..Droppn proof and keeps..Heres a couple of rules of thumb....
50° is preferred optimum temp for reflux condenser water.
Accurate abv reading requires a 60° product temp..Hot likker is angry likker, with prolonged bite.
That kettle is insulated well enough to remove the column wrap and free up some free ambient reflux..More contained heat requires mo cold water volume.
Ditch the plate, stick with the element..Simplify.
High initial proof is shots (heads), sounds proper due to 23% feinted wash and backing off before takeoff, slowing and refluxing longer.
Condenser outlet should be luke to warm, with the flow definitely more than your product/spirit stream.
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Scorpster
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Re: First reflux run...

Post by Scorpster »

MoonBreath wrote: Don't get to wrapped up in figures and guess work..Feel that thang.
Sure, first run just wanted to watch what the data told me for how I was running it, rather than the other way around.
MoonBreath wrote: 50° is preferred optimum temp for reflux condenser water.
Is that input or output? I think my water comes out in the mid 50's.
MoonBreath wrote: That kettle is insulated well enough to remove the column wrap and free up some free ambient reflux.
Good idea, will definitely try it down the road.
When I do a non refluxed spirit run I use that exact setup except the RC is gone and the column wrap is gone.
All that passive reflux means the pot still calculators don't work :(
And that column is always filled with copper mesh packing.
MoonBreath wrote: Ditch the plate, stick with the element..Simplify.
Well, not only does it add power during heat up (then gets shut off), but when the volume may become so low (<10L) that the internal element would get exposed I use the induction only.
MoonBreath wrote: Condenser outlet should be luke to warm, with the flow definitely more than your product/spirit stream.
That's been my experience up until this run, which is why I noticed the difference...

Thanks for your insight.
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