First build 3" still

Many like to post about a first successful ferment (or first all grain mash), or first still built/bought or first good run of the still. Tell us about all of these great times here.
Pics are VERY welcome, we drool over pretty copper 8)

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mashins
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First build 3" still

Post by mashins »

After about a year of searching for parts, 2 off island trips to France and EU, I am beginning to build my first. Managed to get a stainless 20L still and started the changing of the cylinder. Took off plastic tap, added stainless valve. Also had friend put flange on lid by silver solder. Made bigger hole, so like 60mm for fitting.

Managed to find a used valve in shop.
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Dont mind rest on top of flange, not complete yet. Still need tube 150cm to go.
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Also forget paper in glass, still experiment with what to do there on top.
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cede
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Re: First build 3" still

Post by cede »

Nice but I don't get the point of the brass part in the middle as you have stainless TC fittings all the way from the cover.
You will hear is often here: make sure it's lead free brass !

I guess the paper with slanted cuts is a mockup :)

For stainless parts and fittings there are a few sources on aliexpress that will send to Reunion's Island.
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mashins
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Re: First build 3" still

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Yes paper mockup, spotted well :) thank you try them to import as well. The brass was all I could get, yes its for water drinking supply, so lead free. Its use is dissasembly for glass as some fittings that are inside glass will go in top part. I am trying some different design.
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mashins
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Re: First build 3" still

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I do understand the dangers of leaving distillation alone, now what I want not to do. But I am easily distracted and loose mind over what to do. So forgetting to close bath tap many times. Had to change kettle as my have burnt out from dry boil and buying new kettles many times is to expensive. Now using whistle to alert me or family. This is same idea as this attention losing is too dangerous for when stilling.

Brewing control is needed for me. I have attention span of a gnat to be mildly good to myself. As IT worker I love data, so want to log many things to understand but that is nother story for nother day. Please help where wrong and guide me please.

Heat input into boiler from control interests me. I have SCR 4-20mA controller and Tmp controller programmable with Ladder PLC control from some other failed project furnace now abandoned. I need learn programming to power limit heater depending on if heatup or boil. Heatup at full power until just before boiling. How to detect boiling I don’t know, as boiling is changing around ABV. Maybe measure Delta of Temp as heat temp change fast with little energy input, so full power heatup from low Temp, Temp Delta is fast.

Once boil, Delta of Temp is very low or nothing? Where to measure, thinking low in boiler closer to heating coil or surface, no? My capacity for boiler be 25 Liters.

Now Question, does Delta Temp change when close to boiling? I would think yes it slows down…. Second Q. How would insulating the boiler influence the Delta Temp, special close to boiling as now there is less loss of Temp…? This is also using less energy when done, so less cost. Maybe experiment and measure what happens, or goole and find out, any links to look for?

Assuming this is right then we go. So PLC program in Temp controller must measure Delta Temp and reduce input Power when close to boil and regulate input power or heat to continue boil at level desired. I do not yet know how to do so in PLC? Idea would be following: When cold far away from boil an low temp, heat full power, measure Delta Temp. when Delta Temp slows down by say 75% start slowing heater input SCR power till very small Delta Temp say 5% or whatever % then heat input becomes lesser % of total power. Also sound Siren when close to boil temp, use 10 degrees below as warning as thinking this is where acetone methanol ethanol vapours come, also extra danger starts.

How much input power % don’t know, will experiment later to find.

Second part of control now. again with PLC and 4-20mA ball valve control cooling water. Set Temp of output water after cooling to Temp, maybe 55 or 65C or other temp by experiment and let PLC Temp controller do that. Thinks that PLC PID will be better than me forgetting, remember kettles. Maybe water outlet Temp can be used to cool ethanol dripping out Temp also but how much lower dripping temp will be dont know.

Is this cheap, no, and I want to save money but burnt down house and cars will be more money, not to talk life or never seeing wife and kids again. Also curious about process and want to learn principles and understand also. This is not about controlling boil, but controlling steam/ethanol vapours or not even control but influence how good reflux and vapour speed is managed. Am I right in thinking this?
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mashins
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Re: First build 3" still

Post by mashins »

Ahh so found a curve of water heating and Delta temp gets less with time. Water gets close to boiling, Temp Delta slows down.
http://mrslagunascience2014.wikispaces. ... 0JoeyS.jpg

So we can detect boiling point by following Temp rate of change as it slows down near boiling!
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mashins
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Re: First build 3" still

Post by mashins »

And actually things are getting better now, some good friend dropped off yesterday...
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5/16" (8mm) copper tube

Also finished building this....
About 125mL when full. Not to bad for empty contents to prevent smearing.
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mashins
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Re: First build 3" still

Post by mashins »

cede wrote:Nice but I don't get the point of the brass part in the middle as you have stainless TC fittings all the way from the cover.
So that part was avaliable to me, and i want to dissasemble the glass from rest of tube. But where the TC fitting is at bottom, i cannot fit my distillate tube, not enough place. So the fitting will go into brass coupling screw fitting and up to plate collector. Plate collector will be seen from top looking down in side from site glass.

Top part of brass screw part will not come off sight glass again, dissasembly will be by unscrewing pipe with brass bottom screw from sight glass part. Hope that is clear.
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mashins
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Re: First build 3" still

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Did experiment today :) water boiling, i know boring....

Constant power input 2000W, on average logged every 15sec. Added a linear best fit line to compare to. We see the slow down, rate of change reducing until boiling point. (low pressure today) The probe were calibrated on ice bath as per spec, dead on. Accuracy is +- 1C

There is support for hypothesis of rate of change to detect boil. Yay :clap: :think: maybe this could work.

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Edit graph to better see
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mashins
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Re: First build 3" still

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So managed to ask and Chemist answered, somewhat.... :roll:
"Jim Griepenburg, chemist
Answered:
Boiling point is an artifact depending on an unconfined atmospheric pressure. Confined water under its own vapor pressure has a slightly decreasing heat capacity from 1.009 at 0C to 0.9974 cal/gram at 35C above 35C the heat capacity rises [seemingly] smoothly to 1.155 cal/gram at 300C.
If the liquid is unconfined exposed to an external atmospheric pressure as the vapor pressure approaches the external atmospheric pressure more and more of the input heat is removed by the evaporating gas and the temperature stabilizes at [or near]the boiling point at that pressure. (my emphasis) One could possibly work up a set of differential equations to describe this.
If a liquid is exposed to its vapor space when heated; the heat will distribute to heat the liquid, evaporate some liquid and heat the gas. Again equations could possibly be written."

So my Hypothesis seems to be true, no?
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mashins
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Re: First build 3" still

Post by mashins »

So nother experiment done, distilling 12% wine in alambic still. This is the temp graf:
Image
Right at the line vertical is change in slope of temp. First kink in yellow graf (ignore other graf) is when temp slope (delta) changed. It produce distillate at about 85C. After that it indicates slow rise in temp as boiler ABV changes, at point when line in graf was when most methanol was done.

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mashins
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Re: First build 3" still

Post by mashins »

The temp was measured at the top of arm of still for yellow graf.

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Re: First build 3" still

Post by Beovoxo »

looking nice
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mashins
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Re: First build 3" still

Post by mashins »

Image
Now newly sprouted sugarcane for my rum experiments :D
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Twisted Brick
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Re: First build 3" still

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I would be interested to hear of your sugar cane progress. I planted 2 pieces of cane on Aug 1 and they have grown nicely in the summer heat (they think its Jamaica here). They're currently between 40" and 48" in height.
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mashins
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Re: First build 3" still

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These are now about a week old, was germinated from seeds. Took about 10 days for em to sprout. Want to see what yeast can be isolated from them. Hoping to get some S.Pombe on there but who knows. Still on waiting for the S.Pombe yeast I ordered from a research institution, more a favour from them to humour me....
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Fiddleford
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Re: First build 3" still

Post by Fiddleford »

I was thinking about the progress on this earlier this week
I subscribed to that post
Good post here to :thumbup:
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mashins
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Re: First build 3" still

Post by mashins »

Now received the Reference Thermometer: Range from -55 to 150°C (-67 to 302°F) Accuracy to ±0.05°C (±0.09°F) Plugs directly into USB Port Resolution to 0.01° Calibration grade with Calibration cert.
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Now we can measure boiling point accurately and log properly the change according ABV.
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Re: First build 3" still

Post by Yummyrum »

mashins wrote:
Now we can measure boiling point accurately and log properly the change according ABV.
Not so sure about this . You would be better off determining ABV from boiler vapour temp rather than boiler liquid temp .
Depends on your wash . For water or a sugar wash you can determine it from wash temp but if you are doing say an all mollases wash with dunder in it the salts will alter the boil temp relative to the vapour temp which is truely indicative of ABV .
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mashins
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Re: First build 3" still

Post by mashins »

That my friend is just one parameter, it will also be used for vapour experiments for ABV etc.
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