Build Advice on kegs & columns

[ScotsPagan]

Hey all...not sure if to post this in here or in Construction, but new distiller here...looking to build my first still;

I want to distill both pot-style & column (I'd like to try whisky & rum, but also will want to do neutral as well for gin and liquor making)..
So a hybrid still seems the best idea.

I have acquired two old kegs (legally - they are from a pub closure, and due to the remoteness of the pub cos its in the highlands and the fact they had only a few kegs in, the brewery said to just do what they liked with them - and the landlord gifted me two!).

But which to use?
The 50L one has a 2" sankey in the middle, so would be easy to attach a 2" copper pipe to. But 50L is quite a big boiler etc., and I'm going to be running electric so I'm worried about being able to cover the elements I'll have to put in if I want to do a small run...but the 40.9L one has the outlet off to the side, and also has a hole midway down covered in plastic (no idea what thats for!)..
Which would y'all use for the boiler, and what sort of column/hybrid design would/could you recommend.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

The oneon the left, for sure. Use the other one for collecting, aging, etc. You'll want the biggest one later, when you see what you're actually doing.

I run that one, and it takes about 4 gallons to cover my element. Others can do less.

Remember, a 15 gallon wash will yield you only about 2-3 bottles of final product (1/2 gallon). You'll want the extra room. Trust me now, thank me later.

[ScotsPagan]

4 gallons just to cover it?

Hmmm...how would that work...I make a 15 gallon wash, do a stripping run with a hybrid column in potstill mode...and I'm left with maybe 3 or 4 gallons...
I know this is more design stuff, but is there a way to sink the elements really low?
That's what I was looking at the barrel-shaped 9 (imperial) gallon keg...the bottom diameter of it is a lot smaller than the mid-section...

The 50L one does look easier from a construction point of view I'll give you that...and I get the "bigger is better" argument too...I just don't want to limit myself down the road to only being able to do massive batches...

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

The difference is negligible. You can go in from the bottom and bend it 90 degrees. Personally, if you want to do less than 5 gallons at a time, I would make a second, 5 gal, boiler that will fit the same head. It will be much more versatile then trying to shave garlic with an axe.

[Swedish Pride]

I think you'll find that the onn on the left will not take a normal triclamp, looks an odd shape.

I'd still go with it as the boiler as the one on the right is partly double walled, would be a pita to sort.

i got a keg and takes about 10l to cover it, so 15 l batches are the smallest I'd be able to do.
In reality it's always full, or closer to 40l as AG is fairly foamy.

for small batches to do gin and what not a small pot is handy enough to make out of a pot from teh kitchen, add a bowl and a few copper bits and you're good to go

[Saltbush Bill]

Im pretty sure the one on the left will be ok Swedish, the funny shaped bit should screw off when the spear is removed.
That is the one I would be using give the choice. 50L may sound a lot , but you will need some head space which will leave you with a working capacity of about 40L.

[Yummyrum]

I'll also go with the lefty .
Have you thought about a small gas burner and bottle .
I hate it for safety reasons but although I have a small electrc boiler I still use a gas burner 95% of the time .

Seriously you may think that a 50 liter boiler is too big but trust us , in time you will see the benefit .LOL there was a time I thought the 50 liter was rediculously big . .... now I mostly use an 80 liter

Also concider that most do multiple strips and combine these for a final spirit run . Save the strips in the right hand keg and use the left for the Spirit Run

[ScotsPagan]

Thanks all.

I should have specified - the left one is.a 50L keg, the right one is technically known as a "cask" (tho everyone here just calls them kegs anyway!).>
The fitting on the keg is a "grundy" keg fitting...basically the same tho, and I think I can just grind the lobes that make it triangular off (hopefully without needing to weld a new rim on for the clamp!)...
I'm nervous about 50L just cos I don't think I'll be stilling *much* so the idea of waiting months to make enough to combine stripping runs for a spirit run worries me a little...
I guess a 40L wash would work OK for pot-still mode right, though? Wouldn't need to combine pot-still runs unless I wanted to double-distill..

[Swedish Pride]

Thanks all.

I should have specified - the left one is.a 50L keg, the right one is technically known as a "cask" (tho everyone here just calls them kegs anyway!).>
The fitting on the keg is a "grundy" keg fitting...basically the same tho, and I think I can just grind the lobes that make it triangular off (hopefully without needing to weld a new rim on for the clamp!)...
I'm nervous about 50L just cos I don't think I'll be stilling *much* so the idea of waiting months to make enough to combine stripping runs for a spirit run worries me a little...
I guess a 40L wash would work OK for pot-still mode right, though? Wouldn't need to combine pot-still runs unless I wanted to double-distill..

do a 50 l wash, strip 40l , should yeald about 8ish liters, add the remaining 10 of wash with the 8l of lowwines, should give you a nicer drop than singlefooting a 40 l charge. and keep the element safe, if you need 10 l to cover the element that is

[Saltbush Bill]

Scotts what you have there is one of these I think , the following link will show you how to remove the spear.
Be sure to lay the keg on its side while you work on it or you could end up with a face full of left over stale beer or worse a face full of spear and spear parts. Also be sure to release any pressure from the keg before trying to remove the spear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kNQ27XWHpA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Once you have removed the spear you should be left with an opening with a small lip around it. If you make or buy a still with a a tri flange at the bottom it should clamp straight to that lip using a tri clamp. You will need a gasket of some sort to do this or a few wraps of plumbers tape around the whole affair before clamping it up.

[Antler24]

Don't have too much to add that wasn't already covered, other than the size. I know your thinking 50 liters is big now, but you'll be glad you have it in the future. Another suggestion is to aim to produce double what you can drink, and age the rest. You'll be drinking 3yr old rum and whiskey in no time!

[Truckinbutch]

All good advice . To make it more user friendly also add a bottom drain and a fill opening on the top . A hot boiler is difficult to pick up and drain or break down to fill .

[Swedish Pride]

All good advice . To make it more user friendly also add a bottom drain and a fill opening on the top . A hot boiler is difficult to pick up and drain or break down to fill .

Sage advice

[ScotsPagan]

Aye, thanks everyone. I was thinking a 4" filling/cleaning hole in the top, angle-grind off the front of the handles at the top for access...then a 3kW element in the bottom, a drain tap in the bottom.

Until I have worked out which column to build (a boka? A CCVM?) for it, I'll be using it as a brew kettle for beer/washes so the access hole will be essential. Grain makes a mess.

Anyone any column build advice (I'll be posting in the column forum too)? 54mm copper cos I'm Scotland will be the likely build here...

[Antler24]

Aye, thanks everyone. I was thinking a 4" filling/cleaning hole in the top, angle-grind off the front of the handles at the top for access...then a 3kW element in the bottom, a drain tap in the bottom.

Until I have worked out which column to build (a boka? A CCVM?) for it, I'll be using it as a brew kettle for beer/washes so the access hole will be essential. Grain makes a mess.

Anyone any column build advice (I'll be posting in the column forum too)? 54mm copper cos I'm Scotland will be the likely build here...

The 3kw element will make heat 10+ gallons pretty slow, I'd guess 2hrs or more. The price difference between a 3kw element and a 5.5kw element is next to nothing, and either one will need 240v power supply, so I'd recommend you go with the 5500w, it'll mean much faster heatup for very little cost difference.

[Twisted Brick]

Anyone any column build advice (I'll be posting in the column forum too)? 54mm copper cos I'm Scotland will be the likely build here...

Go modular. Makes for easy changes from pot strips/whiskies to reflux neutrals, to flavored thumper runs to .....

[ScotsPagan]

Modular was my plan yeah. I’m just not sure which base designs work well together. I’d like to keep the main column as short as possible but want to be able to pot & column stilling...
Boka or CCVM seems to be the way.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

CCVM. All the way. Yes, it's what I have, but it's also the most versatile, short of the flute.

[still_stirrin]

CCVM. All the way.

+1 Scott.

The vapor management makes the “through the run” operations almost self-regulating. Once you’ve set the reflux ratio with the valve (or reflux condenser in the case of the CCVM), the vapor balances itself nicely between the reflux return to the column and the spirit take off. It needs very little, if any adjustment once set.

I don’t have a CCVM, but I do have a conventional VM which I use for all my high proof/neutral spirit runs. I have a separate potstill head I use for stripping and full flavored spirit runs. The CCVM can easily be reconfigured into a potstill mode for those functions and the simplicity of build and operation makes it a wise choice for any new builder.

Read through DAD’s long CCVM thread for the many, many user comments. It’ll help you understand the system better.
ss

[Twisted Brick]

Modular was my plan yeah. I’m just not sure which base designs work well together. I’d like to keep the main column as short as possible but want to be able to pot & column stilling...
Boka or CCVM seems to be the way.

Here's one way to have both. Although I've run my pot with/without either the Tee or the 10" extension, I now prefer to spirit run with the 30" column (Thanks to Zapata) for whatever passive reflux benefits it may add.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

Well, you didn't ask me, so here it is!

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=65801&hilit=

[MM-Brew]

Im right there with you . Im working on completing 15 gal boiler with a 5500 he and a 1650 he . Take the 15 gal . Here's a few things to think about . Or at last I have
1st Dump valve. Think about turning he keg upsidedown. You then can use a try-clamp butterfly valve, or something to empty boiler bone dry.
2nd HEATING. If you put two 2"ferrules close the the now bottom of the keg. This way you and use two heating elements for faster take off, or whatever you want. Theres lors of options.
3rd CLEANING. think about put a 5" or 6" ferrule in the now top for cleaning and for filling.
4th COLUMN. think about using a 3" or 4 " ferrule for you column. You doing know where this hobby will take you. You don't want to worry about having choke point.
5th STAND. if you turn it upside down. Then you'll have to use a stand with wheels, you'll thank me latter. also rember your ceiling height. To ensure that your column will fit work area.
6th FERMENTER. I like to make enough mash/wash for 2 stripping runs and then I can do a spirit run. That's can be up to, about 25 +/- gallons.

So, just some food for thought

[ScotsPagan]

Thanks for all the responses...sorry for delay in responding; father in law suddenly passed away there
Sad thing is, we'd just started to really bond, and he (a long time home-brewer) was about to embark distilling stuff as well.

Looks like I'll be making a wee toast to him with my first glass of drinkable...assuming I ever get the still built (he was also gonna gie us a hand with the stainless welding bit!)

Well, you didn't ask me, so here it is!

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=65801&hilit=

Thanks for that; looking on with interest. Think I'll begin serious designing over next few weeks then post some stuff in the design forum for advice/refining and build from there...

[Scottish auld balrog]

Any further forward Pagan?
SAB

[ScotsPagan]

Alas, not really.
Father in law owned the welder; I shall have to procure one as well as learn to weld...also had car issues etc. but they're fixed now. Hopefully once I've solidified on a design and ran it past folks, I'll have got some parts together by end of summer...

[ScotsPagan]

Update a bit on the design;

I'm still not sure what to use at the end (maybe a simple 2|" to half-inch reducer and length), but how does this look to folk? Does it pass the "sanity" test?

Ferrules are left out cos I couldn't be bothered modelling them and it's easier to see what's going on as well (likewise water pipes etc; blue is cold, hot is return)...