Is This The Start of Something

[The Dark Alchemist]

How much fun is this!!!

Got hooked by visiting a gin distillery about a year ago, and took a gin master class. Hit another one last month and figured I could give it a go.... Lots of reading, rekindling my chemical engineering brain and off we go.

Put down a birdwatchers and let it roar. Wasn't too sure with the practicals, but ended up after 7 days with a mix that wasn't bubbling - that means something, so I drew off 10L and ran it through my new T-500.

The fun started here, where I lost a bit of control with the temps and got some pretty ordinary cuts. But I re-read and learned some more and SLOWED DOWN.

Today, held the reigns tightly on the temp, re-ran the foreshots, and boy was I happy with the result. After losing the 100ml, I hit 4x 500ml @ 92%, 91%, 90% and 89% and was surprised how easily I could tell the difference in taste.

Everything on this site is amazing and as everyone says, read until your eyes bleed and you can improve.

Will let my gallon, plus 2x 43% neutrals sit before I make a bottle of Odin's Gin (which is how I came across this site)

Thanks to all contributors as I journey up my steep learning curve!!

[Bushman]

Congratulations, hearing about others first run and the feeling of success reminds me of that same feeling I experienced years ago! Enjoy the journey.

[corene1]

I hope I am misunderstanding the thread but you really shouldn't be rerunning your foreshots to make a drinkable spirit. Those should be discarded.

[Bushman]

I hope I am misunderstanding the thread but you really shouldn't be rerunning your foreshots to make a drinkable spirit. Those should be discarded.

Good catch, missed hat one! Multiple eyes makes this a great forum.

[fizzix]

You'll like Odin's Gin for it's effective simplicity.
Don't neglect the 5-week conditioning... or at least as long as you can wait it out because it does mellow and round out the gin.
Good luck & go for it!

[The Dark Alchemist]

I hope I am misunderstanding the thread but you really shouldn't be rerunning your foreshots to make a drinkable spirit. Those should be discarded.

Good catch, missed hat one! Multiple eyes makes this a great forum.

Always learning! - I threw them back in the remaining 15L of wash as my temps were all over the place during the first distillation and though there was some good stuff in there - on the next run, stripped the foreshots off again....

Why is this not a good idea if I strip them off again?

[The Dark Alchemist]

You'll like Odin's Gin for it's effective simplicity.
Don't neglect the 5-week conditioning... or at least as long as you can wait it out because it does mellow and round out the gin.
Good luck & go for it!

Thanks - I am looking forward to it - I took 2 different cuts and will blend both off to the same recipe to compare and contrast..

[corene1]

I hope I am misunderstanding the thread but you really shouldn't be rerunning your foreshots to make a drinkable spirit. Those should be discarded.

Good catch, missed hat one! Multiple eyes makes this a great forum.

Always learning! - I threw them back in the remaining 15L of wash as my temps were all over the place during the first distillation and though there was some good stuff in there - on the next run, stripped the foreshots off again....

Why is this not a good idea if I strip them off again?

If you have already stripped off the foreshots which are mostly methanol and acetone's and some other unwanted chemicals why throw them back in and cut them out again. If it was a large quantity of good ethanol that accidentally got some fores dumped back in I would do it as well, but for just a small quantity I wouldn't waste the extra time and energy to get the small amount of ethanol that was in the original fores cut. If it was the start of the run it was mostly fores and early heads anyways. I don't keep early heads either but that is just my thought. As long as you took the extra time to get all the extra fores out that you put back in it will be fine. Remember you will need to collect twice as many fores from that run if you dumped the original fores in with a new wash. Also in the original post you make it sound like you just re ran foreshots. Just trying to be safe.

[The Dark Alchemist]

If it was a large quantity of good ethanol that accidentally got some fores dumped back in I would do it as well, but for just a small quantity I wouldn't waste the extra time and energy to get the small amount of ethanol that was in the original fores cut. If it was the start of the run it was mostly fores and early heads anyways. I don't keep early heads either but that is just my thought. As long as you took the extra time to get all the extra fores out that you put back in it will be fine. Remember you will need to collect twice as many fores from that run if you dumped the original fores in with a new wash. Also in the original post you make it sound like you just re ran foreshots. Just trying to be safe.

Thanks Corene1 - when I lost control of the early temps, I ended up collecting about 400ml of foreshots, so figured there could be some decent stuff in there. For the next run, I ran the temps under much better control, and was alot more confident in the process - great learning. Foreshots have been discarded for window cleaner and I caught some tails to reprocess next time......

Do I need to carbon filter with a BW wash? The neutral tastes ok, but have read both opinions I(I think I have anyway!!)

Now to set the gin going

[Skipper1953]

Well, you've got me curious. What temps do you think you are doing a better job of controlling? You can control the amount of heat you are putting into your wash but that is not the same as controlling the temperature.

[corene1]

Personally I have never had the need to filter any recipe I have used , but I have never made a birdwatchers recipe ,nor have I made Gin,. It just doesn't taste good to me. I make mostly whiskies and rums. If you are needing a really clean neutral I would strip out your wash collecting everything down to about 20% and discarding foreshots . I would then do a slow spirit run with the low wines you have collected. Make sure to reduce the ABV down below 40% before running it. This should give you a really nice neutral and make the hearts cuts a bit wider and more consistent.

[The Dark Alchemist]

Well, you've got me curious. What temps do you think you are doing a better job of controlling? You can control the amount of heat you are putting into your wash but that is not the same as controlling the temperature.

Skipper1953, I was referring to the water outlet temperature in the condenser; the temps were more stable through the entire process through me better controlling via cooling water flow - I had an idea what to expect from the first run. My next practical lesson is identifying the cuts I guess through outlet temperature abv and taste.

Personally I have never had the need to filter any recipe I have used , but I have never made a birdwatchers recipe ,nor have I made Gin,. It just doesn't taste good to me. I make mostly whiskies and rums. If you are needing a really clean neutral I would strip out your wash collecting everything down to about 20% and discarding foreshots . I would then do a slow spirit run with the low wines you have collected. Make sure to reduce the ABV down below 40% before running it. This should give you a really nice neutral and make the hearts cuts a bit wider and more consistent.

corene1 - thanks for that - it looks really clear and tastes good, especially 2 of the cuts I took. I'll take your advise and have a go I was considering filtering half of each of the batches and doing a taste comparison. Nothing like experimenting.

[corene1]

I have done a few of the tried and true recipes as well as a few of my own and have found that using good ingrediants and good yeast at the proper fermenting temps my product is always clean . I have heard that many of the turbo type yeasts and recipes do require some filtering but have never tried them.

[fizzix]

Do I need to carbon filter with a BW wash? The neutral tastes ok, but have read both opinions (I think I have anyway!!)

Do you NEED to? Absolutely not, because Birdwatcher's is a very clean wash.
I am in the minority who does carbon filter Birdwatcher's because I wanted to go the extra purity step.
A friend of mine with an unusual set of sensitive taste buds can taste the difference (we proved it), where the average mortal likely cannot.
That, and an unexpected windfall bonus at work just happened to lead me to a stainless steel carbon filter tower.
Mine is most certainly an unusual case. Don't feel you need to do the same!

[Saltbush Bill]

But I re-read and learned some more and SLOWED DOWN.

Slowing right down is the best thing you can do with that particular still.
Worry more about the speed that the spirt is leaving the still at, than what the thermometers are saying. The slower the product is leaving the still the more reflux you are getting .............the more reflux the higher the abv and more pure the product.
May I suggest that you try a Goo's Kale Wash if its a gin base that you want ...in my opinion it makes a cleaner and better base for a gin that Birdwatchers.

[The Dark Alchemist]

But I re-read and learned some more and SLOWED DOWN.

Slowing right Do you NEED to? Absolutely not, because Birdwatcher's is a very clean wash.

Thanks fizzix; I ended up not filtering it and see how it pans out - my taste palate is not super sensitive, but we'll wait and see.

But I re-read and learned some more and SLOWED DOWN.

Slowing right down is the best thing you can do with that particular still.
Worry more about the speed that the spirt is leaving the still at, than what the thermometers are saying. The slower the product is leaving the still the more reflux you are getting .............the more reflux the higher the abv and more pure the product.
May I suggest that you try a Goo's Kale Wash if its a gin base that you want ...in my opinion it makes a cleaner and better base for a gin that Birdwatchers.

Thanks Saltbush Bill - I'll look that up and have a crack at it. Set my first Odin's Gin last night, so now I need to wait as quickly as I can!!!!!!

[The Dark Alchemist]

But I re-read and learned some more and SLOWED DOWN.

May I suggest that you try a Goo's Kale Wash if its a gin base that you want ...in my opinion it makes a cleaner and better base for a gin that Birdwatchers.

Saltbush Bill - I have been searching for that recipe with no joy. About to lay down my 3rd BW, after my 2nd ripped through the ferment process and will be put through the still this week after settling. Another great opportunity to practice and learn.

Made some of Odin's gin and some beautiful Baileys that was gone before we knew it.........

[Saltbush Bill]

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=45372 can find Goo's Kale Wash here.

[Pikey]

I hope I am misunderstanding the thread but you really shouldn't be rerunning your foreshots to make a drinkable spirit. Those should be discarded.

Good catch, missed hat one! Multiple eyes makes this a great forum.

Especially when we're all half blind because of the methanol !

No - No I shouldn't - really shouldn't !

Well, you've got me curious. What temps do you think you are doing a better job of controlling? You can control the amount of heat you are putting into your wash but that is not the same as controlling the temperature.

Skip the T500 is a coolant Controlled reflux - the instructions tell you about "Controlling temperatures" by adjusting the flow rate. That is the only "Control" they have without modification.

[Edit - not easy to design and sell a still which can be run by anyone at all - without risking "Safety" - can't really let them loose on a Boka or a gas fired pot even - without SOME knowledge - I don't think T500 is a bad attempt at doing that ! - At least you're ensuring they are watching constantly and HAVE got the cooling water turned ON ! ]

[The Dark Alchemist]

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=45372 can find Goo's Kale Wash here.

Thank you....

[The Dark Alchemist]

I hope I am misunderstanding the thread but you really shouldn't be rerunning your foreshots to make a drinkable spirit. Those should be discarded.

Good catch, missed hat one! Multiple eyes makes this a great forum.

Especially when we're all half blind because of the methanol !

No - No I shouldn't - really shouldn't !

Well, you've got me curious. What temps do you think you are doing a better job of controlling? You can control the amount of heat you are putting into your wash but that is not the same as controlling the temperature.

Skip the T500 is a coolant Controlled reflux - the instructions tell you about "Controlling temperatures" by adjusting the flow rate. That is the only "Control" they have without modification.

[Edit - not easy to design and sell a still which can be run by anyone at all - without risking "Safety" - can't really let them loose on a Boka or a gas fired pot even - without SOME knowledge - I don't think T500 is a bad attempt at doing that ! - At least you're ensuring they are watching constantly and HAVE got the cooling water turned ON ! ]

Running now - eyes on temp and flowrate...... Fores gone; window cleaner, including car..... having some fun with all this

[Saltbush Bill]

Skip the T500 is a coolant Controlled reflux - the instructions tell you about "Controlling temperatures" by adjusting the flow rate. That is the only "Control" they have without modification.

The only temp you are controlling on a t500 is the water temp exiting the condenser, in turn that dictates how much reflex you are getting. You can run them just as well by ignoring the temp and keeping an eye on the out put speed. The slower the out put the more the amount of reflux.