First Run soon

Many like to post about a first successful ferment (or first all grain mash), or first still built/bought or first good run of the still. Tell us about all of these great times here.
Pics are VERY welcome, we drool over pretty copper 8)

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Stratstill
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First Run soon

Post by Stratstill »

Hi!

So I finally decided to go for my first distilling run. I still need to do a vinegar and sacrificial run as it's the first time ever I use my still, but I have quite a few doubts I wanted to clear out as I'm fairly nervous and really dont wanna screw it.

First of all, how much vinegar/water solution do I have to charge my still with for the vinegar run? I only ask as I've read 20% of the still on some posts and 50% on others.

Secondly, I decided to use Odins cornflakes whiskey for the sacrificial run as its the recipe I intend to use as my first proper distillation (so I'm guessing it would be nice for practicing), but it was hard to find an actual yeast amount indication. Some folks said 1/2 cup. I'm planning on using bakers yeast, so 1/2 cup of bakers yeast for a 5 gallon batch would be okay? And would an average temperature of 68° be enough for the mash to ferment in 5 days? (Cant really achieve much higher temps with the current weather over here).
Also, I've noticed people talked about "generation 1, 2, etc.." when discussing the cornflakes recipe, so does that mean it can be treated the same as a UJSSMM (replacing old cereal with new one, some backset, sugar and water)??

Thanks a lot in advance and please excuse me if my questions are too many or too basic (I've been reading as much as I can but I get really messed up, so I though it would be safer just asking directly).

Cheers,
Strat
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still_stirrin
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Re: First Run soon

Post by still_stirrin »

Stratstill wrote:...how much vinegar/water solution do I have to charge my still with for the vinegar run?
Enough to run the still for 60 to 120 minutes. You’ll want the aquaeous acetic acid solution to wash the internal structures to breakdown and eliminate oils and/or construction products inside.

Do you have an internal heat element, or use propane? Your boiler holds how much? A 2 hour boil will pass a gallon or 2, so you’ll need enough to keep the element wet even after boiling out that much of the liquid. Vinegar is inexpensive at the grocery store...don’t get cheap with this important part of the preparation. Buy a gallon or two...you’ll be glad you did.
Stratstill wrote:...1/2 cup of bakers yeast for a 5 gallon batch would be okay?
A “god’s plenty”. You could manage with a tablespoon of yeast if it is healthy and properly rehydrated. Yeast will reproduce (called, “budding”) as necessary to generate the required cell population for latent fermentation. But, the yeast need oxygen during the budding phase. After that, during the fermentation phase, the process is anaerobic (without oxygen). So don’t stir or introduce O2 after pitching the yeast.
Stratstill wrote:...And would an average temperature of 68° be enough for the mash to ferment in 5 days? (Cant really achieve much higher temps with the current weather over here).
Well, you want the ferment to be in the noted prime temperatures for which the yeast function best. Typically, bread yeast works better in a warm enviroment...68* will be very low and result in a slow metabolic lifestyle. If you insulate the fermenter, the internal heat generated by the metabolic processes of the yeast will help keep it warm and in its prime range. Too cool of ambient temperatures and it can cause the yeast to flocculate and settle before completion of fermentation.

If nothing else, stick your fermenters in the bathroom of the house. If you can live in that temperature environment, the yeast can too. In fact, they would be quite happy in the bed with you at night. Yeast live very well at your body temperature.
Stratstill wrote:...Also, I've noticed people talked about "generation 1, 2, etc.." when discussing the cornflakes recipe, so does that mean it can be treated the same as a UJSSMM (replacing old cereal with new one, some backset, sugar and water)??
Yes, sort of... It is not uncommon to use the backset (the hot liquid from the boiler after distillation) to start the next batch. The backset will be sour (acetic) and will lower the pH of the fresh ferment making the environment better for the yeast. But be careful with pH because if too low it will shock the yeast and cause it to stall. So, often when acidifying the wash, brewers will add calcium carbonate to help buffer the pH so it doesn’t crash during the fermentation. Ideally, a pH of 4.8 to 5.0 is good for the start of a ferment. So, get you some litmus paper and pay attention to pH, especially if adding backset.

I hope my answers have helped you. Or at least triggered further study (homework) before you start. Knowledge is great to accentuate experience...but one comes before the other.

Be safe, responsible, and discrete.
ss
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
Stratstill
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Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:02 pm

Re: First Run soon

Post by Stratstill »

still_stirrin wrote: Enough to run the still for 60 to 120 minutes. You’ll want the aquaeous acetic acid solution to wash the internal structures to breakdown and eliminate oils and/or construction products inside.

Do you have an internal heat element, or use propane? Your boiler holds how much? A 2 hour boil will pass a gallon or 2, so you’ll need enough to keep the element wet even after boiling out that much of the liquid.
I use propane and my boiler is 5 gallons. I think I'll charge 50% or 60% of it just to be sure. So, if I have understood correctly, I'll run it around 20 min or so without water in the condenser and start the cooling system after that period. (Right?)
still_stirrin wrote: A “god’s plenty”. You could manage with a tablespoon of yeast if it is healthy and properly rehydrated. Yeast will reproduce (called, “budding”) as necessary to generate the required cell population for latent fermentation. But, the yeast need oxygen during the budding phase. After that, during the fermentation phase, the process is anaerobic (without oxygen). So don’t stir or introduce O2 after pitching the yeast.
I think I'll play it safe and use a couple more tbsps just in case. And can I aerate the mash IMMEDIATELY after pitching the yeast? Its hard to explain, but it would be easier for me to do it in that order.
still_stirrin wrote: If nothing else, stick your fermenters in the bathroom of the house. If you can live in that temperature environment, the yeast can too. In fact, they would be quite happy in the bed with you at night. Yeast live very well at your body temperature.
Sounds good. I think the warmest room in my house can reach 77° no problem. I'll sort it out if thats not good enough.
still_stirrin wrote: Yes, sort of... It is not uncommon to use the backset (the hot liquid from the boiler after distillation) to start the next batch. The backset will be sour (acetic) and will lower the pH of the fresh ferment making the environment better for the yeast. But be careful with pH because if too low it will shock the yeast and cause it to stall.
Awesome! I was planning on buying a pH meter for beer purposes so I guess thats a bonus.

Thanks so much for the help still_stirrin!! Truly appreciate it.

Cheers,
Strat
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still_stirrin
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Location: where the buffalo roam, and the deer & antelope play

Re: First Run soon

Post by still_stirrin »

Stratstill wrote:...I use propane and my boiler is 5 gallons. I think I'll charge 50% or 60% of it just to be sure. So, if I have understood correctly, I'll run it around 20 min or so without water in the condenser and start the cooling system after that period. (Right?)
That’ll work.
Stratstill wrote:...I think I'll play it safe and use a couple more tbsps just in case.
Overpitching is not always the best approach. When the yeast buds, it generates fresh healthy cells to populate the wort. Overpitching will send it straight into latent fermentation and if your yeast is not the healthiest yeast, it can produce undesireable byproducts, such as the congeners which produce excessive heads.

I always prefer to pitch 11 to 20 grams of dry yeast (rehydrated, of course) per 5 gallons into a wort which has had oxygen bubbled into it (I use a stainless aeration stone and a small tank of O2 for this). This gives the yeast plenty of energy to start budding and the fresh yeast cells are healthy to ferment the wort fast and with minimal off flavor byproducts.
Stratstill wrote:...And can I aerate the mash IMMEDIATELY after pitching the yeast? Its hard to explain, but it would be easier for me to do it in that order.
You can...but it is not the BEST approach (read how I do it above).
Stratstill wrote:...Sounds good. I think the warmest room in my house can reach 77° no problem. I'll sort it out if thats not good enough.
77*F should work OK for baker’s yeast. It will work better in the 80-85*F range, but it’ll work fine at 77*F. I wouldn’t worry too much about that. You can wrap it with a blanket to help.
Stratstill wrote:...I was planning on buying a pH meter for beer purposes so I guess thats a bonus.
If you do get a tester, make sure to get the neutralization solution for it. You need to keep the element wet in the neutral solution. I just use specific range of litmus test strips. They work fine and don’t require any special maintenance. But a tester would be a great tool for your brewing tool kit.
ss
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
Stratstill
Novice
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:02 pm

Re: First Run soon

Post by Stratstill »

Got it! Great advice, thanks again so much still_stirrin!!

Cheers,
Strat
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