Molasses Rum

Many like to post about a first successful ferment (or first all grain mash), or first still built/bought or first good run of the still. Tell us about all of these great times here.
Pics are VERY welcome, we drool over pretty copper 8)

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TDick
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by TDick »

OtisT wrote:
rubelstrudel wrote:I'll try to mask it a bit with more cinnamon and cloves, perhaps. And then let it be a couple of weeks or months. But right now I have a feeling this batch goes back in the boiler for a reflux run.
Be careful rubelstrudel. Cinnamon is also famously known to be overpowering. As previously suggested; smaller amounts over a longer time works for most things.

With cinnamon, a small amount for a short period of time is a good place to start.

Also, +1 on recommending you do cuts by taste. It's good to smell as part of the cut process to help hone in on the cuts, but I have had much better success making drinkable product since making cuts by taste. Many a good smelling jar has missed the cut.
Otis
For what it's worth, many gin experts adamantly use Cassia because it has a more subtle presence than Cinnamon.
Cassia.jpg
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by rubelstrudel »

Hmm. I didn't know about cassia bark. That is worth looking into.

I will give my rum some time. After all, it's only a week since I distilled it. It is hardly prudent to expect everything to be perfect now. I don't know if my white rum was the way it is expected of a white rum or not. It is hard when I don't have any reference point. I might try doing a rum again later - if I can bother with all the cleaning and mucking around with molasses and dunder, or I may stay with clean neutral and make tinctured gins that I actually like. I haven't decided yet if I actualle even _like_ rum. I like whisky and I like gin, but rum...... I don't really know.

So for this batch I'll just have to see if the result in a month or two is worth continuing with. Christmas is coming up, so even if the rum is overloaded with spices, that is probably not such a bad thing. It's christmas after all, everything is supposed to smell of cinnamon, vanilla, cloves and nutmeg.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by Saltbush Bill »

rubelstrudel wrote:I believe I have made a monumental mistake with my "rum". I have made a 25l batch of vanilla bomb instead of rum.
I think the biggest mistake you have made is to expect your rum to be good and ready almost instantly. The second biggest was adding all those weird things to it. Leave it be...let it be rum ...give it oak and time. Time doesn't mean 2 months, it means 6 months a year, maybe more. Then it might turn out to be something you can be proud of. :thumbup:
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by rubelstrudel »

When it comes to impatience, I am very guilty.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by rubelstrudel »

Maybe this will end up in the ledgers as a success after all. After adding the 6th ingredients of the holy hexaplex, and adjusted some spices to match the vanilla my brew is starting to take on the Christmas spirit. And a week on oak chips have made some real changes to.

In my rum I have now added cloves, cinnamon, vanilla, nutmeg, anis and finally orange peel and things are looking up. There's also an extra dash of clarified stuff from the boiler in there to strengthen the molasses taste. The big batch is now at 55% and already it is not at all a shady dram.

I'll leave a handful of oak chips in there now for another week and see where that is getting us. After a few weeks now we'll see if I should dilute some more for serving strength.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by rubelstrudel »

Rum is weird!

Things are changing by the day. And stuff that was strange and unpalatable only a few days ago are changing into definite "good stuff" territory with nothing but a few days to mature. ... Or maybe I am just getting more acclimatized to what a rum is and should be. Last night I even had a third short one, just to make sure I was tasting right, and it was getting good.

Anyway, what I thought was just a lost cause vanilla bomb last week, has now changed into a quite decent dram. And I still have almost two months until christmas to let this process continue before my first attempt at bottling will take place. I'll probably leave 15-20l in the glass balloon for another few months just to see what happens.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by Andy Capp »

OMG this thread has my head spinning :crazy:
Far too much tweaking going on for what should be the easiest drink to make.
Please don't take this the wrong way but keeping it simple makes the best rum and your effort was anything but simple. :lol:
Blackstrap molasses, bakers yeast, water. The only ingredients you need.
If you want a smooth rum then ferment fast and hot then pull it off the yeast bed.
For a funkier taste, ferment slow and cooler and leave on the yeast bed when done to improve the funky flavour.
Strip down to 5% or lower because this is where the true flavour of all rums comes from.
Spirit run as you would normally. Pot still method works best.
Age as long as possible on charred oak sticks.

Rum is just the easiest drop to make. I hope this helps in some way.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by rubelstrudel »

Wilco next time around.

But doing a lot of things wrong at first have always been my preferred way of learning. Or at least I have to assume that... since that what I always do.

Stripping down to less than 5%.... That is way more than I have read anywhere else. But it does make sense given all the talk about "rum oils".
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by zed255 »

I went down to 5% ABV off the still during the stripping on my first rum and it is definitely oily down there. Per Pugirum I saved the spirit run tails from 40% ABV to 20% ABV as the 'rum oils'. My rum is different from anything at the liquor store but undoubtedly it is rum.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by rubelstrudel »

You all said it, I have problem listening.
But even a little time has changed things into something much more palatable.
Now the bottles are labeled to, so they look nice.
15g/liter of caramel rounded off the spices and molasses nicely.
Also, diluting to just below 40% abv lets the rum tastes come through the alcohol fog.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by Leon »

Ran my first rum a couple of weeks ago fermented from the same brand of molasses as rubelstrudel’s. Plan was to try refluxing it directly from wash and save heads and tails for next run in the same way i run ujssm according to odin and smileys schedule.

Wash was 5 litres of molasses and 3kg white sugar in 28L topped with pugis yeast bomb using bakers yeast. Took off like a rocket, but no spills. Smelled intensively of molasses.

After tossing fores and slowly bleeding off more fores than i’m used to I got close to 2,5L of body. The smell and taste wasn’t anywhere close to any rum i’ve ever tasted. Kind of burnt licorice with a hint of burnt electronics...

Figured it’s maybe burnt a bit and foamed a bit up the column, so I diluted to 20L and reran in a clean column. It became drinkable, but not really rummy or yummy, so diluted to 60% and put on oak. Really difficult to make neutral from molasses! Tested yesterday, but no real improvement.

I think the molasses we have here in norway is made from beets and not cane jugding by the smell. I know the smell of rotting sugarbeets very well from sitting almost on top of piles of it for a few winters during some fallow deer culling operations. They’re good deer feed, but not for rum obviously.

Our feed store molasses is meant for animal feed, so it might be borg from beets and cane, depending on the batch I guess, seeing other people have success with it.

Beeing stupid I started another ferment using one litre less molasses. This time I will strip first, then reflux with some spent wash.

Love a good rum, but if first try is a trendsetter I’ll rather run whisky from now on. My ujssm is simply awesome.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by rubelstrudel »

I just called the FK agri factory at Kambo and asked about what type of molasses was sold in the big yellow 35l cans, and a very nice guy named Lars checked up in their purchasing database and confirmed that it was pure cane molasses from south america or india. The article number of the molasses was 1733 in their internal database, and is probably printed on the cans somewhere. The factory recieves large tanker shipments and fill the yellow cans there in Kambo for distribution in norway.

So, the molasses itself is good enough. It is our way of using it that is lacking. I had the same experience - the spirit I produced was nothing like what I expected it to be, but then - that is what all the recipes says - raw rum is nothing like you expect. It isn't until you've run a few rounds and are starting to get a really good dunder pit running that you can expect to be getting anything interesting.

When I did my run I made 100l of wash with 35kg of molasses and 10kg of sugar. From that I got 22l of low wines from my stripping runs. I added the last 10l of molasses wash to the low wines for my spirit run (in pot still mode) and ran it fast and deep into the tails. First I took of a tiny bit of fores that smelled of the usual acetone et al. Then I pulled of 2l of heads before I collected the hearts. The heads jar smelled strongly of ground coffee. My feints jar still smells strongly of ground coffee even now.

The hearts was nothing special, just plain moonshine - no special esters beyond the usual suspects as far as i could deem. But when I started on the tails interesting things were coming out. Still not much of those rum smells, but I got a bit of smoke and bitter caramel that at first I was considering dumping, but after a day or two I decided to combine it into the hearts. Wether that was a good idea or not is difficult to decide without more tests, but it definitely gave the spirit more body and a bit of bite.

After that of course I started adding enough spices to make my rum halfway into a christmas-bitter, so whatever is down there under all the spices has been completely masked off.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by rubelstrudel »

Rum is weird

I ran a second generation rum today. I had a single 25l fermenter going with the rum backset from the previous a couple of months ago and a bit of fresh molasses and some sugar. For good measure I threw in the feints from my first big rum run, the first jar that smelled of coffee. And since this was a rather small batch I decided to reflux it to see how clean it would get. A few hours later I now have about 3l of 96% that has the weirdest smells. (I dumped the first 3dl.) Every single of my seven jars have some unique quality to it. Theres coffee in some, but not all, theres still quite a lot of molasses, even after reflux. It is all in all really really strange.
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This really is some strange substance, this molasses.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by fizzix »

rubelstrudel wrote:Rum is weird
It is without a doubt the most subjective drink to make.
Years-old Rum Court Battle over a name and style.
It helped fuel a Revolution as sugar refineries found a way to use the molasses goo that oozed from clay pots.
Ask two people here about a dunder pit and get 3 opinions.
I'd argue Crow's Rum with its turbinado sugar is beyond any store-bought---and it's not even done aging yet.
Should one use sugar? White, brown, or raw? Some argue sugar shouldn't be in there at all.
Molasses: Blackstrap, sweet, dark, or feed-grade?
Spiced rum? With what? Holy crap that's a raging topic all its own. I do vanilla and anise. You?
This doesn't even begin to scratch the surface.

I think rum is the loosest product we can make. So many variables, styles, opinions, esters, bananas, butters, and the kitchen fuggin sink.
Now that I've made whiskey, rye, Booner's, a few bourbons, brandy, vodka, gin, and who remembers what else in my short time here,
you're Rum Is Weird statement brings me back to what I really like: Rum. Time to explore it more.

Sorry to go off topic. Struck a nerve.
Carry on.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by rubelstrudel »

Two days of airing out now. I discarded some and recombined my hearts... And..... This second generation rum actually is starting to taste and smell like what a real rum should smell and taste. Refluxing didn't spoil it, but rather let more subtleties through. Maybe a bit much ethyl acetate in the nose, but the tongue detects many more subtle nuances. Feels sweet and warm, with hints of raisins and fruits and a faint whiff of coffee.

And this is a pure white rum. Almost a vodka. Far from perfection, but much more of what I expected than before.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by Leon »

Just did my second rum too. This time with 1kg less molasses (4kg+3kg white sugar). Stripped thru a 2feet copper packed column with minimum reflux, almost full blast on both vm and lm. The strip had strong notes of pineapple all the way through.

Will reflux again soon diluted to 40% and then add 50% backset and heads and tails from last attempt. This time I will not add any spices, just rest for a few weeks on american oak and then another few weeks on french. Promising so far. No shitty smells and promising taste even on the stripping run.

Might test another batch with 3kg molasses and 4kg sugar just to test for any trend in the ester composition.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by BoisBlancBoy »

I think this thread has turned up some good information on a many facets. It is really showing the amount of variables that rum runs can produce. Also the amount of patience it requires, along with being persistent with subsequent generations how things can improve the final outcome.

Keep it going! Run is something that I have yet to try but this is making me excited to do it.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by rubelstrudel »

Another variant I do is to keep a spiral of copper pipe in the boiler when doing my spirit runs as copper sacrifical. I feel it works just as good as copper in the vapour path. An interesting effect of low wines with molasses is that the copper sulphides that normally form are cleaned right off in the boiler and my copper comes out all shiny.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by Saltbush Bill »

That happens to any copper in any boiler with any low wines or wash....nothing new there.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by rubelstrudel »

Ok, but when I redistill rather clean low wines my copper spiral often goes a bit black. Probably because it's allready just about only eth and water in there.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by Leon »

I think that copper in the column is better than in boiler. Sulphur compounds in boiler can evaporate into product before it ever meets the copper in the boiler. I believe copper in the vapour path must be a more efficient way. That’s why I usually strip with a two feet column hard packed with copper wire balls and also use half a litre of copper spp in the bottom of my column for the spirit run regardless of reflux or potstill mode.

I believe molasses is fairly rich in proteins and thus sulphur compared to most other washes, so suspect it can be more imortant with copper in vapor path for rum than maybe a whisky.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by rubelstrudel »

My second generation white rum is getting better and better. After a week of airing out it is starting to reach sipping quality, without any additions. Who would have thunk....

Rum is definitely weird.

Maybe some of the secret to good rum is to get rid of the gunk, the fats and waxes that builds up in your boiler to extract the cleared backset and concentrate that?

I am starting to regret dumping the backset from my last run now. But if I ever do rum again I will absolutely try to clarify the molasses more before running. And then perhaps ferment and strip in stages to create a more and more concentrated and fat/wax/gunk-free backset.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by Leon »

Rum is weird, i concur.

Did the spirit run on my last rum strip the other day. Turned out drinkable right away. I find that a lot of the rum flavor are in the early fractions, so tried to compress the heads very much to try and bleed’em over to hearts with a very very small amount of heads left in the hearts.

After two days on french oak it is really starting to get somewhere.

Spirit run was with the strip diluted with same amount of water, heads and tails from last run and 5l backset from the stripping run for a total of 13l in boiler.

Started a new ferment with 5l of backset, 3l molasses and 3kg white sugar. The last two litres of wash and yeast from last run was boiled and used for nutrients. Took off like a rocket with new bakers yeast.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by rubelstrudel »

When I am working with my own spirits, I have a tendency to stop noticing anything that I am not actively seeking. Can't see the forest for the trees. Especially when it has been a long time since I tasted anything not of my own making. It is a bit of a worry that I am working on something that is really not so good as I believe it is. So I try to have second opinions. My brother and Brother-i-l are nice guys and they will always offer an opinion if I ask, but it is hard for them to make an informed comment on half-products since they have little experience there. Or so I tell myself when they hate the stuff I have them try.

This second generation white rum was out for testing the other day and my brother did not get it. In his nose it smelled of dirty diapers and sweaty feet. ... Not exactly what I was fishing for.... My BIL was a bit more diplomatic and said it "tasted" better than it smelled. Luckily the guys at the office cheered me up when they exclaimed: "That's a RUM!" upon smelling it. (Moonshine tasting sessions are a bit more difficult to organise during the morning coffee break.) Personally I thought it was getting pretty good now.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by rubelstrudel »

Since I started this thread I have put a five rum runs behind me. And although rum definitely is weird, I seem to be getting concistence. And most of the variance now comes down to molasses quality.

Now, the dunder is the key secret ingredient in rum, that is common knowledge. And books have been written about proper care and maintenance of dunder. In addition Shineon has postulated that giving your dunder and wash a bit of time and heat before distilling can do wonders.

All this I am now starting to see and experience first hand. Thanks to all you guys that have worked on this before me and shared.

My latest batch was my biggest yet with 70kg molasses in 140l brute fermenter. And after distilling and cutting I ended up with 12L 75% good stuff. Not a great yield, but already a drinkable rum.

This has now been put to age for a year with freshly toasted oak sticks and I have great hopes for this batch.


On another note: the first big batch of spiced rum I did last year was not really that great when I gave away most of it at Christmas. But the last 4 months have really made a great impact. The nutmeg have mellowed more, the caramel has come forth, the molasses has transformed, and it is starting to really come out as something really decent. Very satisfying.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by NZChris »

rubelstrudel wrote:On another note: the first big batch of spiced rum I did last year was not really that great when I gave away most of it at Christmas. But the last 4 months have really made a great impact.
You shouldn't be in such a hurry to show off your new skills. I'd rather buy someone a bottle of rum than let them taste mine while it's still immature.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by rubelstrudel »

NZChris wrote: You shouldn't be in such a hurry to show off your new skills. I'd rather buy someone a bottle of rum than let them taste mine while it's still immature.
Patience comes with age and experience. At the moment I am like a two year old child. A 4 month delay is almost one sixth of his entire life, unbearable.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by rubelstrudel »

Rum, rum, rum ... rum is weird

And age is just so much more important thant I ever imagined it was. My big batch of rum has now matured for two years, and when I visit it every two-three months I can taste and smell the development going on on in there. Every time i take a sample there has been more development, and so far only to the better. That overwhelming molasses funk is now slowly transforming into .... rummyness, something far less offputting and way more interesting. And I realize that the process is far from over, so the rum is sitting there making itself and will continue to do so in the years to come. Maybe one more year, maybe three, maybe 10?
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by Saltbush Bill »

rubelstrudel wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:51 am Rum, rum, rum ... rum is weird
:thumbup: Nice post, ya getting the hang of it.
It just gets better with time.
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Re: Molasses Rum

Post by rubelstrudel »

But I haven't done any more rum since my big 100l batch. The smell was just to much to handle. I do however have that huge carboy half full of cask strenght rum in the waiting. That's around 20l of 60% that will probably last the rest of my life. If it does continue to develop though, maybe I will regret not making another batch yet.
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