First puke!

Many like to post about a first successful ferment (or first all grain mash), or first still built/bought or first good run of the still. Tell us about all of these great times here.
Pics are VERY welcome, we drool over pretty copper 8)

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MtRainier
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First puke!

Post by MtRainier »

Got my first puke! Of course when I wasn't watching it.

The first half of my molasses rum run went fine, but I went upstairs for around 5 minutes to check on kids and it was long enough for the column to fill with brown. 8)

I hadn't realized that as the boiling point increases in the boiler that the boil will get foamier. Guess I know now. Coming from homebrewing usually a boilover happens right at the beginning and settles down as it goes, so that's when I had been careful.
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Fiddleford
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Re: First puke!

Post by Fiddleford »

popped yer cherry :thumbup:
Rye whisky rye whisky oh dont let me down
Gunna have me a drink then gambol around
Here's some fiddle music
Pt1
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Re: First puke!

Post by Yummyrum »

Fiddleford wrote:popped yer cherry :thumbup:
:ebiggrin: :clap:

And seen a classic case of why not to leave your still unattended . We kep saying shit will happen when you’re not looking .

Back on topic . 1/2- 2/3 filling your boiler and adding a table spon of vege oil helps with puking .
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Re: First puke!

Post by MtRainier »

oil is a good tip. I started searching on puke prevention and saw someone suggest butter too. Maybe it would taste good in the rum too. 8)
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Fiddleford
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Re: First puke!

Post by Fiddleford »

Shouldn't need a lot, just enough to mess with the surface tension
Rye whisky rye whisky oh dont let me down
Gunna have me a drink then gambol around
Here's some fiddle music
Pt1
Pt2
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Re: First puke!

Post by MtRainier »

What's left of the wash is still in the boiler cooling. I'm trying to decide if I should try to start it back up tomorrow to finish, but I probably will just add some to the dunder pit and dump the rest when it cools. I was starting to smell tails anyway. Still has about half the alcohol in it. Oh well.
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Fiddleford
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Re: First puke!

Post by Fiddleford »

Alot of the nice flavors can be in deep tails
Collect it all the way down and then add it to the pit
Put a cool damp towel on the riser or column so you don't lose any ethanol
Rye whisky rye whisky oh dont let me down
Gunna have me a drink then gambol around
Here's some fiddle music
Pt1
Pt2
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Re: First puke!

Post by MtRainier »

Good idea. I have the column off and just put some aluminum foil over the boil flange. The column is in parts soaking. I'll attach the reducer, horizontal arm, and product condenser and run it as a pot still all the way down tomorrow. After adding some oil.
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Re: First puke!

Post by Skipper1953 »

Is foaming really that much of a problem once you get past the hot break? I've only done a few molasses runs so I don't have a lot of experience with them. Do they behave a lot differently than barely cleared all grain washes/charges?

Any way, congratulations. What did ya name it?
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Re: First puke!

Post by Skipper1953 »

Fiddleford said:
"@Skipper: you ever make candy or boil a high sugar liquid, or make syrup. its different from grain and sugarheads the molasses not only has residual sugar left over its also still a thick liquid being boiled down plant matter"


No experience with candy making. I made some Golden Syrup today for my Pumpernickel Bread recipe. No foaming.
Next time I do a rum run, I'll run it DEEP into tails and then crank up the heat and see what happens. Your response has made me curious. The backset from my rum runs has not been noticably thicker than the backset from my murky whiskey washes.

edit: something seems to be missing.
Last edited by Skipper1953 on Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First puke!

Post by Fiddleford »

If you do all grain take a small jar of wart and throw it in the microwave for ten mins
Monitor it reduce it open the door now and then let it cool eventually it will boil over quite rapidly but it wont be like a water boil over it should be like the consistency of a malt extract
I think it has to do with the proteins
Someone more acquainted with molasses could answer the specifics for you
I just know cause I seen it not cause I know whats happening backstage
I'm going off topic sorry OP
Rye whisky rye whisky oh dont let me down
Gunna have me a drink then gambol around
Here's some fiddle music
Pt1
Pt2
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Re: First puke!

Post by NZChris »

If you puke a pot still rum strip, all you have to do is turn the heat off for a couple of minutes then back on again at a lower power. Including a bit of puke in the spirit run is no different to adding some fresh wash to it, except that the amount of puke would be much smaller.
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Re: First puke!

Post by rubelstrudel »

Same happened to me yesterday when I stripped my molasses wash. My low wines ended up slightly brown, but since I would be adding fresh wash for the spirit run anyway I just kept on running. Had to reduce my power input down to 400w to avoid puking. Ended up spending 6 hours per stripping run.
Always impatient. But learning.
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Re: First puke!

Post by bilgriss »

First puke isn't so bad. First scorch, that's disappointing.
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Re: First puke!

Post by MtRainier »

bilgriss wrote:First puke isn't so bad. First scorch, that's disappointing.
Don't jinx me!

I am already dropping Christmas hints on some nice big bain marie kettles I see online, but then I'd want a pump that can move solids and a steam generator.... and maybe a mash tun with an agitator motor and a lease on a place where I can set it all up. Once I've done all that I might as well submit for a DSP. 8)
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Re: First puke!

Post by MtRainier »

Ordered some Fermcap S to see if that holds down the molasses wash.

I tried a couple tablespoons of canola oil and it laughed at it. I had to run at under 2kW to keep it down. I could try coconut oil too which might add nice flavor.
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Re: First puke!

Post by rubelstrudel »

2KW!?! Thats fast! I had to dial back to 300-400W to avoid puking. Each of my 50l strippings took over 6 hours.
Always impatient. But learning.
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Re: First puke!

Post by Saltbush Bill »

rubelstrudel wrote: I had to dial back to 300-400W to avoid puking. Each of my 50l strippings took over 6 hours.
That's just a crazy amount of time to take to strip 50L.....it should be all over much sooner than that, you need to put less in your boiler , or add butter or oil to keep the frothing down.
Also splash you wash into the buckets and boiler as hard as you can to degas it before you even start heating.
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Re: First puke!

Post by Expat »

rubelstrudel wrote:2KW!?! Thats fast! I had to dial back to 300-400W to avoid puking. Each of my 50l strippings took over 6 hours.
I ran the strip runs for my rum last week, @4kw. I could see the bubbles dancing in the sight glass above the boiler but it no puke. 3 hours from power on to clean up.

No oil added for surface tension break, just sufficient head room.
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Re: First puke!

Post by MtRainier »

Running next generation tonight. Added three drops per gallon Fermcap S. Have 10 gal in 16 gal boiler. So far it's just swirling, not foaming. Just pulling off fores right now after loading the column but it's really well behaved.

I may regret those words in another hour. 8)
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Re: First puke!

Post by GCB3 »

Well, I joined your club today, too. It’s truly an honor to be among such august company! :oops: the “learning opportunities” just never seem to end!

I was stripping 12 gal of 7.5% Jimbo’s SM AG wort (+ 1/2 stick of butter) in a 15 gal boiler. It has two 1500 Watt internal elements. The lower element is on/off only. The upper element has a PID controller. This is only my second ever AG strip. All others have been rums and sugar washes.
M
My normal procedure is to heat at 3000 Watts until the head temp hits 100*F. At that point I cut the second element to 50%. Also, I’m using one, 24”, unpacked column section just to create separation between the pot and the head. There is a wad of copper scrubbies in the upper end of the column section. It’s normally about 1 1/2 hrs to reach takeoff and a little over 2 hrs to get 2 1/2 to 3 gal (down to 15%).

I shut it all down and washed everything except the pot. I left it full and am planning to start over in ghe morning. Sure wish I had seen NZChris’ comment above before I did all of that.

Is 12 gal just too much in 15 gal pot for this type wort? Or can I keep the volume the same and control this better by reducing the heat input earlier? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks
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Re: First puke!

Post by NZChris »

GCB3 wrote:Is 12 gal just too much in 15 gal pot for this type wort? Or can I keep the volume the same and control this better by reducing the heat input earlier? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks
A rough rule of thumb for any pukey type wash is 2/3rds full.
What I have done when I've had a bit too much wash for one charge but not really enough for two is 2/3rds fill it then, when I've taken off the same volume as the leftover wash, shut down and added the leftover.
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Re: First puke!

Post by GCB3 »

Thanks Chris. I can take 2 gal out in the morning and try your approach. I was treating this like my all moly rums and just got too greedy I guess. Do you have any suggestions on how to manage the power input?
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Re: First puke!

Post by NZChris »

My elements are similar to yours and it seems like we run them the same way for stripping. Once I've found the Watts where the puke happens, I dial the SRC controlled element down a bit, record the Watts and don't go over that for the subsequent strips.

I don't watch the output abv as I don't think it's important. I want a predetermined total low wines abv for the product I've decided to make and aim for that by floating the alcometer in a collection vessel large enough to take the whole run.
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Re: First puke!

Post by GCB3 »

Mine is a homemade controller that a fellow member (electrical eng.) was nice enough to help me with the design. Unfortunately, there is no watt meter. So, I’m just interpolating based on the control knob position.
With the extra 2 gal margin and less heat, maybe I’ll figure out the sweet spot. Think I’ll try just killing the primary element when the head temp starts climbing. That’ll still give me control over the remaining element.
Thanks for your time and input.
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Re: First puke!

Post by NZChris »

GCB3 wrote:Unfortunately, there is no watt meter. So, I’m just interpolating based on the control knob position.
Likewise. The cheap Chinese Ammeter I used tells lies, so I have to calculate the Watts from the control knob position. :D
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Re: First puke!

Post by GCB3 »

You are way more advanced than me!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: First puke!

Post by NZChris »

GCB3 wrote:You are way more advanced than me!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Don't talk yourself down. Using two elements is up there in the clever department for a couple of very good reasons, including an element failure, (I've had that happen once in thirty years).

One of the tricks I use is running the two elements in series, giving me 750W from the two elements. It's a great low Watt density solution for a dirty wash and a nice slow Wattage for a 'hands off' spirit run without a controller.
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Re: First puke!

Post by GCB3 »

I’d like to hear more about the series configuration, but, right now I’m reheating my puker.

I took the two gal out as you suggested. Are there any special steps or precautions for adding cool wash back to a hot still? I will remove the insulating wrap to help with cooling. It would appear my only real option is to pour it down from the column top. There are no open flames in here and the only thing near 40 pct will be the low wines. I can cap them and move them outside. I don’t really see any fire risk. Am I overlooking something?
Any idea how cool should I let it get before doing the add back?
Thanks for the help, Chris.
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Re: First puke!

Post by NZChris »

GCB3 wrote:Are there any special steps or precautions for adding cool wash back to a hot still?
The greatest risk is implosion if the vapor collapses too quickly for the vents. I wouldn't go pouring cold wash down a hot column with plates or packing into a closed boiler.

I've installed a shooter valve for mid-run additions and start the addition at a dribble for the first pint. In hindsight, I should have installed a bigger valve.
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