First TPW for neutral run
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- Kindafrench
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First TPW for neutral run
Sitting in the sun, enjoying life, just after I checked the fermentation of my first TPW.
Started yesterday morning with pulling out lots of reverse osmosis water for the wash. Used 5 kg of plain white sugar, mixed it with 5 liters of warm RO water. Heated it up to about 80 °C and gave it a stirr time by time over a period of 30 minutes. Got a nice golden color. Put 13 more liters in the plastic fermenter. Mixed 250g concentrated tomatopaste with 1 liter water and poured it all together. I put 2 vitamin B complex tabs with magnesia in, too. Checked the temperature, was 26 °C, mixed in 5 g yeast, which was this one https://www.cdiscount.com/vin-champagne ... 63165.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Made for sweet wine, so it might stop too early with fermenting, we‘ll see. Expecting something like 12% alc in the wash at the end.
Not sure if the mix misses some epsom salt, but I give it a try, because the epsom salt that I got is not pure and has 30 % sulfur (whateveroxyd) in it and I don‘t want to put that in my wash!
It started bubbling after 3 hours. It‘s not like the alcotec 48 h yeast, I can tell ya. I‘m controlling the wash heater with a diy pid controller, to keep the 27°C I am shooting for. There is no foaming and it smells better than the best dark, sweet beer I ever had. Wish I had one like that
Don‘t want to open the fermenter again, till it stops bubbling. Then I will taste and rake it. Not sure if I‘ll instantly put it in the still or let it settle. Time will tell. Surely I will get the SG at the end and may ask some questions. This will be my 3rd batch of about 20 liters then. Would be nice to get some neutral for my sweety. She loves Limoncello and I surely would enjoy a Vodka-ish spirit to mix with Martini and some bitter.
Keep you updated.
Kindafrench
Started yesterday morning with pulling out lots of reverse osmosis water for the wash. Used 5 kg of plain white sugar, mixed it with 5 liters of warm RO water. Heated it up to about 80 °C and gave it a stirr time by time over a period of 30 minutes. Got a nice golden color. Put 13 more liters in the plastic fermenter. Mixed 250g concentrated tomatopaste with 1 liter water and poured it all together. I put 2 vitamin B complex tabs with magnesia in, too. Checked the temperature, was 26 °C, mixed in 5 g yeast, which was this one https://www.cdiscount.com/vin-champagne ... 63165.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Made for sweet wine, so it might stop too early with fermenting, we‘ll see. Expecting something like 12% alc in the wash at the end.
Not sure if the mix misses some epsom salt, but I give it a try, because the epsom salt that I got is not pure and has 30 % sulfur (whateveroxyd) in it and I don‘t want to put that in my wash!
It started bubbling after 3 hours. It‘s not like the alcotec 48 h yeast, I can tell ya. I‘m controlling the wash heater with a diy pid controller, to keep the 27°C I am shooting for. There is no foaming and it smells better than the best dark, sweet beer I ever had. Wish I had one like that
Don‘t want to open the fermenter again, till it stops bubbling. Then I will taste and rake it. Not sure if I‘ll instantly put it in the still or let it settle. Time will tell. Surely I will get the SG at the end and may ask some questions. This will be my 3rd batch of about 20 liters then. Would be nice to get some neutral for my sweety. She loves Limoncello and I surely would enjoy a Vodka-ish spirit to mix with Martini and some bitter.
Keep you updated.
Kindafrench
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Re: First TPW for neutral run
Just finishing the strip runs of my first TPW. I used bread yeast and couldnt get temps above 22. Still finished in 2 weeks. I didnt bother letting mine settle, its murky but hasnt caused any problems in the still.
- Kindafrench
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Re: First TPW for neutral run
Do you use any kind heater for the wash?
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Re: First TPW for neutral run
I put an aquarium heater I had in the barrel. Then realized it wasnt working! Thought I might be in trouble but it all worked out. I did wrap the barrel in insulation. Outside temps around 3-15 C night to day. It was a 32 gallon mash so that was a lot of mass to help stabilise temps.
- Kindafrench
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Re: First TPW for neutral run
Wow, that’s a huge amount of liquid for an aquarium heater. I only know the smaller ones, up to 100 Watts. Could imagine that with some insulation, the temperature may have risen a bit higher.
I use a big 2 kw electric preserving pot, which I bought a couple of years ago, where the plastic fermenter just fits in. Controlling the heat it with a PID. Once the pot went out of water and melted the big plastic spacer at the bottom. Took some hours to clean. Stupid error, because I left it running over the night, steaming hot. Wanted to preserve 14 glasses of veggies. Luckily they didn‘t break and put fancy juice on the hot bottom.
Did the stripping runs work as expected? What are you going to do with it? Double, tripple distill in your pot still?
I use a big 2 kw electric preserving pot, which I bought a couple of years ago, where the plastic fermenter just fits in. Controlling the heat it with a PID. Once the pot went out of water and melted the big plastic spacer at the bottom. Took some hours to clean. Stupid error, because I left it running over the night, steaming hot. Wanted to preserve 14 glasses of veggies. Luckily they didn‘t break and put fancy juice on the hot bottom.
Did the stripping runs work as expected? What are you going to do with it? Double, tripple distill in your pot still?
Last edited by Kindafrench on Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: First TPW for neutral run
RO water is devoid of the minerals that yeast need, so if you don't replace them you might have trouble fermenting to dry and get some off flavors.
Aquarium heaters are designed to work with forced current from aerators and pumps. Without forced circulation you may get stratification, leaving the yeast bed in a cold zone.
Aiming for 12% abv may stress the yeast and give you more off flavors than if you had aimed for 8%.
Aquarium heaters are designed to work with forced current from aerators and pumps. Without forced circulation you may get stratification, leaving the yeast bed in a cold zone.
Aiming for 12% abv may stress the yeast and give you more off flavors than if you had aimed for 8%.
- Kindafrench
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Re: First TPW for neutral run
Thanks for the input, NZChris. I'm thankful for every push to get me into the right direction.
As I told my wife, that I need epsom salt, she said "let me have a look, there must be some.....". She left the room and came back with 100 g of fine epsom salt. A bit dated, but it shouldn't get old, the way it was stored. Was still nicely boxed from the pharmacy. So I mixed 4 g with 100 ml of water, let it sit for 10 minutes and gently stirred it into the fermenter, which bubbled nicely. Temp is 27 °C. There was still the smell of sweet dark beer, as I entered the room. After taking away the lid, a smell of applejuice, sweet cider came off the ferment. I love it. No idea about what I get out of it, but I'm positive.
With the next wash I will aim for 8 %.
As I told my wife, that I need epsom salt, she said "let me have a look, there must be some.....". She left the room and came back with 100 g of fine epsom salt. A bit dated, but it shouldn't get old, the way it was stored. Was still nicely boxed from the pharmacy. So I mixed 4 g with 100 ml of water, let it sit for 10 minutes and gently stirred it into the fermenter, which bubbled nicely. Temp is 27 °C. There was still the smell of sweet dark beer, as I entered the room. After taking away the lid, a smell of applejuice, sweet cider came off the ferment. I love it. No idea about what I get out of it, but I'm positive.
With the next wash I will aim for 8 %.
- rubelstrudel
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Re: First TPW for neutral run
Epsom salt was probably a few million years old when it was dug out of the ground. It'll be fine.
Always impatient. But learning.
Re: First TPW for neutral run
Magnesium chloride would be better than Epsom salts if you needed magnesium for a ferment that was deficient. I've never used either.
- Kindafrench
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Re: First TPW for neutral run
And it bubbles, softly.
Kf
Kf
- Kindafrench
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Re: First TPW for neutral run
On and on it bubbles. Will stop posting now, until it stops. Feeling like a spammer, sorry for that.
Re: First TPW for neutral run
No worries.. It's your thread, and you're just updating. Now let 'er finish and good luck!Kindafrench wrote:On and on it bubbles. Will stop posting now, until it stops. Feeling like a spammer, sorry for that.
Re: First TPW for neutral run
Thanks for the thread mate! I just finished my first TPW too. I only have the still spirits super reflux still (outdated one) so I ran it through and got 6.5L at 60%. Tasted amazing compared to the turbo stuff (can’t believe I ran 30L of alcohol with turbo, duh a waste). It came out with no off smells and very little after burn. Tasted sweet which I was surprised with since it’s a reflux still.
It had some floaters in it so I decided to still it again. I had about 10L in there to cut the ABV done and it ran at 76C for an hour but after that it was averaging 88-92C. I ended up with 5.5L at 60%. No floaters, no after burn, no bad smell and only a little sweet. Perfect for flavouring.
I must admit that I was a little sceptical at first but with these results I can’t wait to try more recipes. I’ll didn’t realise that some flavour would get through a reflux still!
Do I even need a carbon filter anymore?!?
Cheers mate.
It had some floaters in it so I decided to still it again. I had about 10L in there to cut the ABV done and it ran at 76C for an hour but after that it was averaging 88-92C. I ended up with 5.5L at 60%. No floaters, no after burn, no bad smell and only a little sweet. Perfect for flavouring.
I must admit that I was a little sceptical at first but with these results I can’t wait to try more recipes. I’ll didn’t realise that some flavour would get through a reflux still!
Do I even need a carbon filter anymore?!?
Cheers mate.
- Saltbush Bill
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Re: First TPW for neutral run
You dont need to filter......you need to learn about and make good cuts.
Re: First TPW for neutral run
Yeah that’s my next learning curve. Funny thing is, even without making cuts and simply collecting it all after the first 100ml. Still tastes better than turbo after double distilling and triple filtering haha. Crazy eh?!?
- Kindafrench
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Re: First TPW for neutral run
Thanks JuniorDan and congrats for your improvements.
There is a thread about improving a super reflux still: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=14555
I clearly move away from neutral taste when I get lower than 85%. Sugar taste survives the destilling process quite well on my still. On my future runs, I‘ll go for 1 liter azeo and the rest is playground. Have to get a better understanding of what flavours and taste I might get on different abv levels. The TPW will hopefully help me a bit, before I do the Kirsch.
And taking notes, which is a pita for me. Have to change my mindset on that
Now for a little update. It‘s day 20.
Had to move my equipment to another room, because some friends will arrive next week. I guess he would like the smell of beer and the steampunk copper decoration elements , but her... no idea.
The TPW still gives some bubbles at 27°C each 10 seconds in the waterbath.
I decided to do some measurements and tasting. My hydrometer said 0% which tells me it would be ready to go in the boiler. Well, it‘s roughly estimated because the scale is hardly usable. 1 mm difference in floating hight is 1%, so i almost need a magnifying glas to read it. Just ordered a refractometer for future measurements.
The tasting was surprising. Very fizzy, sweetish wine taste. I consumed 2 cl and it gave me a gentle fizzy brain, too Wanted to have some more, I really liked it, but noooooooo way....
No tomato taste at all, light red color. Still a smell of a good beer, but not that sweet anymore.
So go on yeasties, pull it dry
There is a thread about improving a super reflux still: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=14555
I clearly move away from neutral taste when I get lower than 85%. Sugar taste survives the destilling process quite well on my still. On my future runs, I‘ll go for 1 liter azeo and the rest is playground. Have to get a better understanding of what flavours and taste I might get on different abv levels. The TPW will hopefully help me a bit, before I do the Kirsch.
And taking notes, which is a pita for me. Have to change my mindset on that
Now for a little update. It‘s day 20.
Had to move my equipment to another room, because some friends will arrive next week. I guess he would like the smell of beer and the steampunk copper decoration elements , but her... no idea.
The TPW still gives some bubbles at 27°C each 10 seconds in the waterbath.
I decided to do some measurements and tasting. My hydrometer said 0% which tells me it would be ready to go in the boiler. Well, it‘s roughly estimated because the scale is hardly usable. 1 mm difference in floating hight is 1%, so i almost need a magnifying glas to read it. Just ordered a refractometer for future measurements.
The tasting was surprising. Very fizzy, sweetish wine taste. I consumed 2 cl and it gave me a gentle fizzy brain, too Wanted to have some more, I really liked it, but noooooooo way....
No tomato taste at all, light red color. Still a smell of a good beer, but not that sweet anymore.
So go on yeasties, pull it dry
- Saltbush Bill
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Re: First TPW for neutral run
You really do need to lean to make cuts , it will be the single biggest improvement you can make to the quality of your booze.JuniorDan wrote:Yeah that’s my next learning curve. Funny thing is, even without making cuts and simply collecting it all after the first 100ml. Still tastes better than turbo after double distilling and triple filtering haha. Crazy eh?!?
Turbo yeasts and the other rubbish sold by HBS owners really isn't the way to go if you want a good end result.
They are there to make money ...most know very little about distilling ....they just parrot the rubbish told to them by the suppliers of the goods they sell. They wont improve the quality of what you make.
Re: First TPW for neutral run
Hi Kf
The bubbles you are getting could be trapped co2 from your ferment it should be finished by now.
It sounds like you are using a alcometer/spirit meter or alcohol hydrometer they have various names they are only of use once you have distilled the wash and do not work on a ferment. What you need is a homebrew hydrometer for calculating %abv. This maybe of help
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=42746
If I have it wrong sorry look forward to hearing about your run also take a look at the new distilling section there's some great info there.
Lee
The bubbles you are getting could be trapped co2 from your ferment it should be finished by now.
It sounds like you are using a alcometer/spirit meter or alcohol hydrometer they have various names they are only of use once you have distilled the wash and do not work on a ferment. What you need is a homebrew hydrometer for calculating %abv. This maybe of help
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=42746
If I have it wrong sorry look forward to hearing about your run also take a look at the new distilling section there's some great info there.
Lee
- Kindafrench
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Re: First TPW for neutral run
The news: the ferment stopped bubbling after 5 weeks. I let it sit until yesterday, raked it into the boiler. Tomorrow I‘ll run it. Taste and smell of beer are gone. It‘s more like wine now. Not a bit of CO2 in it.
So after all, it went fine.
Will post about the final product taste when it‘s done and aired.
So after all, it went fine.
Will post about the final product taste when it‘s done and aired.
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- Bootlegger
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Re: First TPW for neutral run
Great to read your first TPW experience, as I just put on my first TPW in three batches 2 days ago, having never distilled before.
I bought 2 25L ltd Youngs' brew fermenters, with a grommet in the lid. Im also using a 5 gallon water bottle as a third fermenter.
Made the wash, pitched yeast on the first at 28 degrees, second at just over 30 degrees, read from the temperature strip I put on the side of the fermenter (well i couldn't read the second as the strip only goes to 28, but guesstimated it wasn't over 35). SG was 1080 and 1070, oh and 1070 on the 5G water bottle.
Put the waterlocks in and put them in the bathroom which is a fairly constant 24/25 degrees. I don't use an aquarium heater or anything to keep it on a temperature, this will have to do. Now on day 2 both vessels are still 26/27 degrees which i guess I'm happy with. The water bottle doesn't have a temp strip, but I'm assuming temp is similar to the other 2.
Seem to have an issue with the fermenter lids not closing properly though, the waterlocks are slightly under pressure but are definitely not bubbling...at all.
I peeked, and one has a foam layer, the other is just bubbly. Measured SG and its around 1055 so it must be fermenting. Thinking of contacting the supplier to ask for new lids?
From what i read searching the forum is that airlocks and lids are notorious for leaking. My only worry now is... Im away home next week for two weeks and will bring the still back with me (as I live in Scotland but work (and guess also live) in Saudi Arabia) so will only have the still here in 3 weeks, provided customs let me through as alcohol is illegal here and the sale of it will still get you some jail and possibly 50 lashes (BTW I'm posting this using a VPN and will not sell, just saying). So it will be over 3 weeks from now before I will clean the still and use it. With the fermenters seemingly not airtight, what is the chance of the washes going off or being spoiled on my return?
I bought 2 25L ltd Youngs' brew fermenters, with a grommet in the lid. Im also using a 5 gallon water bottle as a third fermenter.
Made the wash, pitched yeast on the first at 28 degrees, second at just over 30 degrees, read from the temperature strip I put on the side of the fermenter (well i couldn't read the second as the strip only goes to 28, but guesstimated it wasn't over 35). SG was 1080 and 1070, oh and 1070 on the 5G water bottle.
Put the waterlocks in and put them in the bathroom which is a fairly constant 24/25 degrees. I don't use an aquarium heater or anything to keep it on a temperature, this will have to do. Now on day 2 both vessels are still 26/27 degrees which i guess I'm happy with. The water bottle doesn't have a temp strip, but I'm assuming temp is similar to the other 2.
Seem to have an issue with the fermenter lids not closing properly though, the waterlocks are slightly under pressure but are definitely not bubbling...at all.
I peeked, and one has a foam layer, the other is just bubbly. Measured SG and its around 1055 so it must be fermenting. Thinking of contacting the supplier to ask for new lids?
From what i read searching the forum is that airlocks and lids are notorious for leaking. My only worry now is... Im away home next week for two weeks and will bring the still back with me (as I live in Scotland but work (and guess also live) in Saudi Arabia) so will only have the still here in 3 weeks, provided customs let me through as alcohol is illegal here and the sale of it will still get you some jail and possibly 50 lashes (BTW I'm posting this using a VPN and will not sell, just saying). So it will be over 3 weeks from now before I will clean the still and use it. With the fermenters seemingly not airtight, what is the chance of the washes going off or being spoiled on my return?
- Yummyrum
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Re: First TPW for neutral run
They will be just fine .
Three weeks at 25-27 degC and they should have finished and settled .
Don’t get hung up on seals and airlocks . My last three washes have been outside in a 200liter ex Olive barrel with a sheet of thin polystyrene on too with a piece of ply to hold it on with a brick on top for a weight .
So long as the CO2 is not disturbed , it will form a layer on top of the wash that keeps it safe .
Only problem is if you keep lifting the lid after its finished .
Three weeks at 25-27 degC and they should have finished and settled .
Don’t get hung up on seals and airlocks . My last three washes have been outside in a 200liter ex Olive barrel with a sheet of thin polystyrene on too with a piece of ply to hold it on with a brick on top for a weight .
So long as the CO2 is not disturbed , it will form a layer on top of the wash that keeps it safe .
Only problem is if you keep lifting the lid after its finished .
My recommended goto .
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory
- Kindafrench
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Re: First TPW for neutral run
There shouldn‘t be a problem with leaving the fermenters alone for weeks, as long as there are no bugs or insects entering the buckets. Well, I read about a HD member who had hornets raiding his garage for the delicious stuff , so better close the windows .
To bring my story to an end, I got 2 liters of 90%+ neutral out of the still. Reused 1 liter of feints, which I mixed with the wash before destilling and got the same amount of feints back after.
So, happy ending with this run.
To bring my story to an end, I got 2 liters of 90%+ neutral out of the still. Reused 1 liter of feints, which I mixed with the wash before destilling and got the same amount of feints back after.
So, happy ending with this run.
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- Bootlegger
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Re: First TPW for neutral run
excellent cheers fellas, looking forward to the still in action, making the cuts and enjoying my spirit in a dry country.
Kindafrench, thats exactly how I plan to run, making tight cuts and keep the feints for each next run.
Kindafrench, thats exactly how I plan to run, making tight cuts and keep the feints for each next run.