How long before first success?

Many like to post about a first successful ferment (or first all grain mash), or first still built/bought or first good run of the still. Tell us about all of these great times here.
Pics are VERY welcome, we drool over pretty copper 8)

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Rrmuf
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by Rrmuf »

I've mostly made Gin.

Batch by batch:
#1 was lousy due to over-powered cassia bark , but it really masked other deficiencies as well.
#2 was great (i thought) because it tasted like gin. In retrospect, it was just ok.
#3-#4 much like #2 but with some incremental improvements.
#5 was much better as I finally got off the turbo yeasts, and tried Wineo washes and OEG. Result was very good.
#6 was better still as I when I switched to TFFV as a wash formula and got much better at refluxing for producing my neutral base.
# 7 + have been great with the botanical bill being adjusted to taste, and experiment.

I would say, in retrospect, Batch 1 was lousy... but I did use it to blend in some cassia flavour in batches 2,3.
Batches 2-4 were just ok. But I had fun making it and it was definitely drinkable.
Batches 5 were the first gins I shared with friends and I would say blew them away. I have a collection of Gins I like, from all over, and honestly can say I like my gin more than 90% of them. The Gins I used to love, I find faults with now. My friends feel the same way.

It's interesting because a few of the Gins I am still chasing in terms of taste and quality are from the same region (Manitoba, Canada of all places!)

Now, I started looking at Bourbon, did one SCD ferment, strip and I feel it is a whole new ball game. I look forward to learning there as well. Corn is a b*tch to cook. :-) I am researching here to see how I can make for a smoother brew and ferment.

If someone was starting out, my advice would be:
#1 get off the turbo stuff.
#2 start with a T&T recipe here.
#3 Keep good notes to help you learn from every effort.
#4 Small batches will help you iterate faster.
#5 Research here, ask questions. People might get prickly sometimes but they are here to help.
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Stonecutter
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by Stonecutter »

WithOrWithoutU2 wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:40 pm Another update...

I have about 4L of Irish Whiskey sitting on once used Oak for about 6 weeks. And it is by far the best I've done so far and really look forward to sharing it. I made it for a friend because I lost a friendly bet. I just hope I will pull it off oak at the right time so I don't over oak.
Congratulations U2. As we venture down the rabbit hole. That’s one hellofa payoff for a friendly wager.

I must of got the same dealer as Michigancornhusker because my first attempts with AG and SW were a great success. I’ve since run into all sorts of pitfalls and hurdles while chasing the rabbit. In all I’d say it took me about 15 runs to where I’m feeling really good about my Hooch. My #1 was a change in how I ran my distillers beers and wines. I switched to a copper packed column with a small amount of rasching rings with reflux chamber and it has cleaned everything up a ton. I’m sure I’ll look back later and think to myself…shit I didn’t know anything and my spirit was crap. But it’s a win win either way.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Good post Rrmuf :thumbup: I think that sums up the learning curve nicely. You learn by experience, your product improves with time. Anyone who thinks they can just clone a commercial product straight off is living in la la land.
Our aim should be to make something unique, something as good if not better than what can be bought by walking into a shop.
To me this hobby never gets stale or boring.....you never stop learning or improving.
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Scott Tracy
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by Scott Tracy »

I have a suspicion that we all come to like what we make, and maybe that distorts the judgement... but I've enjoyed drinking everything I have made so far. I haven't offered anything from the first few runs to anyone I like though.

Probably the best thing that happened to me was long delays in getting hold of my still. It made me read for longer and learn much more than I would ever have had the patience to do if the toys were there to play with from the beginning. Left to my normal ways I would have charged in earlier and would have been the worse for it.

I did eventually get impatient and started playing with an air still. But I fermented a lot more wash than I could easily distill and took a lot of time with still runs, cutting more out than I kept in and doing all of it slowly while keeping notes. I think knowing there was plenty of wash helped me to avoid the temptation to cut too widely. Feints jars can go back in the still after all.

The other thing which helped me a lot was to focus on the end to end. Distilling is just a small part. I took T and T recipes, took care with anything I cooked, took care to control fermentation temps and pH, didn't push boundaries that might stress the yeast, waited for things to ferment out, waited for washes to clear, distilled slowly even on stripping runs and so on.

Seems to me a key theme of this hobby is patience. A good drink is the product of many steps - ingredient selection, mashing, fermentation process, clearing, stripping, spirit run cuts, blending, oaking and ageing. Screwing up any one of them can spoil the result. Taking the time to do things carefully and to avoid big errors at any step really seems to be rewarded.

I am just getting started, so I make no claim to any particular insight or skills. But there is a lot of great information here, and my experience so far is that absorbing as much as you can, and coming back and reading up on each issue I run into as I learn is letting me make drinkable booze from the get go, and every product so far has been better than the last one.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

IMO the above is another shit hot post..........that is how you will make great booze and keep improving........................Pay attention Newbs
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Deplorable
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by Deplorable »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:12 am IMO the above is another shit hot post..........that is how you will make great booze and keep improving........................Pay attention Newbs
I had to re-read the first part of your post. At first, I thought you said it was a shit post, and I was like this> :crazy: then I read it again and was like this> :wink: :thumbup:
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
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Rrmuf
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Re: How long before first success?

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Deplorable wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:52 am
Saltbush Bill wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:12 am IMO the above is another shit hot post..........that is how you will make great booze and keep improving........................Pay attention Newbs
I had to re-read the first part of your post. At first, I thought you said it was a shit post, and I was like this> :crazy: then I read it again and was like this> :wink: :thumbup:
... I think I had to do some translating myself. :-)
-- Rrmuf
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FL Brewer
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by FL Brewer »

I've been brewing beer (extract and all grain) for decades, so I did have a head start on the mashing and fermentation parts of the process ...... I mainly make whiskey.

Batch #1. OMG, terrible. Small batch (single 10 gallon ferment) and I didn't know how to do cuts. Taste terrible, gave me a terrible headache.
Batch #2. Not nearly as terrible, realized on my pot still the heads cut should be much bigger than batch #1. Still bad headache.
Batch #3. I finally figured out (because of reading this forum till my eyes bled, then reading some more....) that sweet taste is not the corn in my bourbon grain bill, it's ethyl acetate. Much better. Not quite as good as the worst commercial whiskey you can buy.
Batch #4. A little better than #3, still too early on the heads cut.
Batch #5. Made a very conservative heads cut, figured out the tails cut. Made a good white dog. Didn't age long enough (like all my previous runs), but I think this is the point where I had a good distillate.
Batch #6-10. Experimented with aging. Finally figured out that there is no substitute for time on oak. At some point in this stage my friends started asking for another glass.
Batch #10 +. Figured out how to do spirit runs on my new VM head, switched to a bigger (15.5 gallon keg) boiler, did three ferments and stripping runs with 20 lbs of grain per spirit run, and figured out how slow to run the heads to get a good clean heads/hearts cut. Optimized my wood prep (toasting and charring) and amount (one 3/4 x 3/4 x 8 in charred stick per 3/4 full gallon jug of 60% distillate) and time on oak (at least a year, two is better, three is really, really good). My friends prefer my whiskey to even the expensive commercial whiskeys now .... and so do I.

So the things I figured out, in order, each of which made big improvements in the result were:

- making cuts (easier for bigger batches)
- oak prep and amount
- patience! let it age long enough
Everyone has to believe in something. Me? I believe I'll have another drink......
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by ratdog01 »

i've only been doing this since lockdown in the UK started so not that long really but have loved it and still loving it
but like above i read everthing and anything about this hobbie and took notes lots of notes found this site and never looked back

reflux + sugar wash no issues as such on first time but the more i have done the better they get
pot still = a whole new world i would say lots 1 and 2 very poor so came back reading i am now doing all grain / fruit and even still of a load of wine we had for years
much better but still leaning best advice was keep going keep your own notes and read
cuts are a personal taste thing but you get to know the feel and smell and each time you do it you get a little better

you will also get to know your own still and how it likes to be treated
i only reflux sugar wash never done one in the pot but i may do one in pot still just to see what it comes out like

lots of good people on here that will help you , the recipes are great

keep going and enjoy it

thanks
RD01 :lol: :lol:
opus345
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by opus345 »

Noobie experience notes:

1) Focus on a T&T Recipe. For me it was Rad's All Bran. I used it for my sacrificial run and then I've made 7-8 runs where I'm using it for things like a Pineapple Upside Down Cake and Apple Pie and I've already got very good reviews from samples.
2) Take good notes and review them with the experiences of others here on HD.
3) While I support the recommendations that All Grain or All Fruit will yield better results, I have experienced decent success with Sugar washes while All Grain has been kicking my ass. My recommendation is to make sure your fermentation and distilling process is solid with a T&T sugar wash before moving to All Grain/All Fruit mashing.

Remember that the bottom line is not who else likes your product, but do you like it. Ultimately that is the customer you need to please.

Have fun and stay safe.

opus
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Rrmuf
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by Rrmuf »

opus345 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:47 pm Noobie experience notes:

2) Take good notes and review them with the experiences of others here on HD.
+1 on taking notes.
-- Rrmuf
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by Jimbo »

My first was an apple brandy from 3 gallons of cider I spent way too long juicing on a table top juicer after quartering the apples. It was good enough to get me to try again. Second was a pear brandy. Same laborious methods. It turned out amazing and hooked me. That was '96 or so. 25 years later and the scale and equipment has grown a bit, 2400 lbs of apples this year. 20 gallons of bourbon put up over last winter Some batches are better than others. Some go south for one reason or 7. Keep careful notes of what works. Methods, yeasts used, temperatures etc. Apple brandy and bourbon Ive done enough times with variations that I dont feel the need to experiment too much anymore. For others its fun to throw curveballs and see what comes of it.

Youll get there, stick with it. The most important things for success are good ingredients, good yeast, a slow ferment at cooler temps and making careful cuts.
In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. But in practice there is.
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