How long before first success?

Many like to post about a first successful ferment (or first all grain mash), or first still built/bought or first good run of the still. Tell us about all of these great times here.
Pics are VERY welcome, we drool over pretty copper 8)

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Saltbush Bill
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Well said Bushy.....I think a lot of us can relate to that.
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NZChris
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by NZChris »

Bushman wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:04 pm What I called success when I began would not be considered success today. But doing my first run and producing alcohol has to be measured as a success. Quality came later and is measured in small increments of improvement.
I reckon my first pot stilled sugar wash would still pass now. I can do better now because I have a Boka, but I still use some of my ordinary sugar wash the same way I did thirty years ago.

My first rum was a success and it's narrow cut was enjoyable from the first sip until the last bottle was drunk a year or so later. I make better rum now, but everyone enjoyed that narrow cut stock food rum from the get go. When making some of my later rums, the molasses quality I was getting had dropped from ok to downright nasty and it has taken years for some of them to come right. Some still haven't, but they are getting better and I'm confident they will eventually make it into my drinks cabinet.

My first brandy was a success. I was given a barrel of red wine in exchange for half the brandy from it. Everyone was happy with that deal.

I don't remember ever thinking that I'd got over the hump. It started good and has kept on getting better. Most of my fails weren't really fails, they were experiments that didn't get the results I'd hoped for. I've just turned some of them into hand sanitizer.
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by T-Boon »

My first turbo made a pretty good hand sanitizer in the times of covid.

Second turbo made some stripped then fairly strictly cut just passable Midori (and ive got about 1l left to do something with).

Next up is some birdwatchers so we will see how that goes.
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by SwollenGoat23 »

I can understand what you're saying withorwithout.
I've been at this for somewhere around 3yrs or more and I'm still a little hesitant to offer a drink to close friends or family. My wife says I'm a perfectionist and it's good but,
I had 1 friend that like my UJSSM as much as Tito's..... see what I mean. IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO TASTE LIKE TITO'S!!
All in all, my first run was the best paint thinner you ever spit out. Each run gets better somewhere...if you look for what positive you can take from it and I know it's hard when you expect to have something that resembles something close to your expectations after all your time and effort.
So for me you have sort of an open ended question for me.....

It took me 1 run to get over the hump of my high expectations and realize that, though I did 7 months of research (4hrs min. everyday) before I even bought 1 piece of equipment, it won't taste like a master distiller's make. But, my setup and breakdown time is better and more efficient. My ferment start to finish is fine, no more stalls from PH. I get over a lot of humps on every batch when I look at it as a whole, which is positive progress.

Secondly, The 1 change I made that changed my results the most was curbing my excitement enough to do more reading and slow my Entire process down.
What I get to make now is "OK" in my book but I'll never be "ok" with "ok". I have 2qts of UJ on oak that I like, out of gallons and gallons of "finished" product.
I may have missed the mark here trying to answer but, Man do I know exactly what you're saying. Good Journey Bro!

"Patience is the Hardest thing to put in a Bottle"
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by WithOrWithoutU2 »

SwollenGoat23 wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:52 am
I had 1 friend that like my UJSSM as much as Tito's..... see what I mean. IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO TASTE LIKE TITO'S!!
:lol:

Glad you can relate. Misery does love company. I think it is great people are sharing how many runs it took to get to something they'd be proud to share. As I stated before, I hope it helps give perspective to those of us just starting the journey. It's also is kind of fun to read because there are some funny members that tell a good story.
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by Truckinbutch »

My good friend Georgia Flatwoods says that 'patience is the hardest thing to put into good whiskey .'
That said ; I started out with a simple keg boiler and a Liebig condenser doing sugar washes . Rough , but drinkable . Focused on sweetfeed and got good at it with BigBob's help .
Was drug kicking and screaming into the AG realm when I was introduced to enzymes as opposed to malted grain conversions .
And then I built a keg thumper and pushed it to it's limits for stripping and spirit runs . Learned more about making cuts and airing and blending .
Few people get it all right the first time .
Focus on one good recipe and vary your approach until you get good at that . Then vary a little bit to find what best fits your pistol .
I haven't had anybody bitch my offerings at several S-3 gatherings .
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by GreenEnvy22 »

My first batch, just this year, was/is decent. I come from a home Brewing and winemaking background, so this just felt like an extension of that.
My second batch, and first one of my own recipe, is on the go now. This one I just cobbled together from what I could find on-hand, so it might just end up being a few gallons of hand sanitizer.
---
I have a 50L pot still with dual Liebig condenser.
I typically make Whisky, grappa, and brandy.
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by tombombadil »

I've been at it a few months. Some of my stuff has been good, some just ok and some not good at all.

The 'not good at all' batch was ag whiskey with wide cuts (too much tails!) so it's been stuffed in to the back of the shed.

The rum is just ok.

The corn likker and bourbon were good right away. The corn likker is on oak cubes and getting better. The bourbon is on sticks and getting better.

The single malt is good after some time on oak spirals and sticks, wasn't very good right away.

However, I do not have a refined palate at all and it's likely that I only like the stuff because I made it.
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by tombombadil »

Have you tried the charred oak spirals? Definitely not a substitute for 10 years in a barrel but adds some sweetness and some oakiness after just a few weeks in a jar, that might help make some of your likker more palatable in the short term while you're waiting a few years for the rest of it to come around.
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by WithOrWithoutU2 »

tombombadil wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:20 am Have you tried the charred oak spirals? Definitely not a substitute for 10 years in a barrel but adds some sweetness and some oakiness after just a few weeks in a jar, that might help make some of your likker more palatable in the short term while you're waiting a few years for the rest of it to come around.
I have some pretty good white oak planks that a member here generously donated to me that was already toasted, I just cut and char the sticks as I need them. And I've got quite a bit more that drying out that I had a local lumber yard cut for me. We have tons of white oak where I live so these small lumber companies clear trees for a living and then turn it into lumber. Great little source for white oak on the cheap. They knew exactly what I was doing with I asked them to cut it down for me. The old man at the yard told the younger guy to grab some specific boards that hard more heart wood in it. He gave a wink, a nod, smile and said, "that will be better for what you want to do with it". :D
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by Chauncey »

I was lucky enough to have someone aid me in my first runs and building my first still. I made some high gravity fruit wines and they ran off real good. The only unsuccessful run i ever had was one that came out metallic tasting and i reran it which fixed that up.

Guess im lucky even with wide cuts and pushing abv limits doing single pot runs everything was at leazt a decent drop. As i corrected these methods things just got better.
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by Corsaire »

WithOrWithoutU2 wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:53 am The old man at the yard told the younger guy to grab some specific boards that hard more heart wood in it. He gave a wink, a nod, smile and said, "that will be better for what you want to do with it". :D
That guy deserves a medal... or a bottle of your finest ;-)
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by WithOrWithoutU2 »

Corsaire wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:54 am
WithOrWithoutU2 wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:53 am The old man at the yard told the younger guy to grab some specific boards that hard more heart wood in it. He gave a wink, a nod, smile and said, "that will be better for what you want to do with it". :D
That guy deserves a medal... or a bottle of your finest ;-)
+1

I have a feeling he has been at it longer than me, so I don't want to piss him off with some of my stuff. :lol:
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by Chucker »

I first stuck my toes in the water in 2011. The results were anything but impressive but I was thrilled nonetheless. Every year showed improvement; recipe evolution, learning to better operate the still, better mash technique (sugarhead corn), wood toasting and char methods, etc...
I made no equipment changes except to upsize the pot from a milk can to a half bbl. 2014 was probably the first I could really call successful and even then as I refined the recipe and started to use more corn and less sugar and some enzymes it still got better. Changing from local oak (red) to some white oak really made a huge difference a couple of years ago and then last season I went AG with corn and malt rye. Whoa! Best yet!
With my relatively short season I can do about 4 batches. I been doing one recipe and method for each season. It makes for a long learning curve. Whatever I make about now won’t be truly ready for a real taste until December or so. (I’ll have to check progress to be sure!).
In short, I don’t really know if you know when you get there. If it pleases you or your friends along the way, then you’ve got a measure of success. But the potential best batch is always your next one.
This year is officially underway with the first ferment just about done. I wanted to try some barley malt in the corn base this year but somehow wound up with a bag of roasted barley instead of malt so I guess that will be the base instead. Since I’m using enzymes it’ll still work fine. The beer is very dark and has an almost coffee-like flavor. It may not be exactly what I had in mind but I think that it’ll turn into something different and very special. Then again, I didn’t know what to expect from a barley malt recipe anyway, so I guess a wink is as good as a nod to a blind man.
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by WithOrWithoutU2 »

Well, I am happy to report I've got a whiskey (AG 70% Corn, 30% Barley) that has been aging for about 18 months that I would consider a success. As I've said before, I don't like the taste of whisky but just like making it. So I have a friend who is my taste tester. I ask him to use the following ratings

Thanks but no thanks
Not for me, but maybe a college kid would take it
Good enough to use in mixed drinks
Good everyday sipper
Use for special occasion and when trying to impress


I had him try the same batch after about 3 months aging and he said, almost something a college kid might want. But when he tried it again after 18 months, he said it was on par with the quality of Jim Beam which is between a good mix drink whisky and everyday sipper for him personally. So I will take that as progress and demonstrates the power of aging.
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by Truckinbutch »

I like reports of consistent improvement .
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by n_plains_drifter »

Speaking as a total newb with exactly one spirit run under my belt, I'll say that it took me one to get something that makes ME happy, and that could be shared without complete embarrassment. I just hope I don't have a 5 year drought before my next success!

That said, it comes after 2 decades of brewing and making wine, and a couple of years of research here, so I had a solid foundation.
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by Chucker »

My very first attempt was pure crap, but I was proud of it nevertheless. As things progressed I learned more and proceeded largely by trial and error and before finding this forum. After the first couple of seasons I thought I was doing pretty good and each was getting better. I really didn’t have much of an “archive” to go back and compare. At one point I did have a chance to taste something from a few years prior and was amazed.
Exactly as an earlier post has stated, what I thought was pretty good wasn’t nearly as good as I thought. Current refinements are becoming less and less and now, after about 9 seasons, the results have paralleled what I’ve learned. I’m done with sugarheads and am no longer adjusting recipes in major ways. Maturation has changed some and consistency is much better. But it really took 3-4 seasons to get to a passable point.
The 3 major influences to current success, IMO, were; this forum, learning to use enzymes, and switching to white oak (instead of red oak from the yard)
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by SuburbanShiner »

I was pleased with my very first run. I would never claim to have a very refined pallet but I do believe that my product has gotten better over the years. I am sure that if I were to have some of that first run to try right now, I would think it was horrible. Probably too much heads/tails made it into the mix as I was greedy with volume from my small still.

The major humps for me that helped was getting a larger and easier to run still (5g to 13g) and making better cuts which comes with practice. Another major improvement was moving from one-and-done to 3 strips and a spirit process.
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by Demy »

The first was an instant success. The first thing I distilled was some wine. I didn't have any good information except that there is a head, heart and tail. Very "improvised" alembic, as product coolant a copper coil immersed in an aluminum bucket. I made cuts with the senses and had some drinkers taste it and it was a hit, great brandy. The failure came later with the first grappa from the marc and with some fruit (prickly pear).
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by jonnys_spirit »

I'd have to contribute that i thoroughly enjoyed my first runs and continue to learn and experiment. I haven't done sugar washes for neutrals and started with brandies, all grains, and similar - some sugar enhanced spirits but I found that I try to use a sugar source with flavor as much as possible eg; using grape juice or cheap wine kit to extend a grappa pomace run. I think that when I get around to shooting for a neutral I might use a sugar head approach.

My first runs may not have been cut as well but I still enjoyed them a lot. My judgement may have been clouded by the starry tears of joy in my eyes as the first drops liberated themselves from the product condenser (true story).

Experimenting with cuts has led to more diverse product and I did scorch a couple early runs so have implemented further clearing until I get a thumper plumbing setup.

Cheers!
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by Demy »

jonnys_spirit wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:25 am
My judgement may have been clouded by the starry tears of joy in my eyes as the first drops liberated themselves from the product condenser (true story).
You're right jonnis, the first drops of the first distillation made me laugh while I was alone, I looked like a child. Even now when I experiment with something new and it works I have the same feeling, maybe madness or maybe that's what fuels all the hobbies we have even beyond distillation.
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by zapata »

My first run was in the last millennium, and the breadth and depth of our collective knowledge is a whole new paradigm. Read till your eyes bleed. Think it through when you're driving down the road. Put it to practice, then think it through with every sip. It's all right here. That said, my first run was proudly shared, but I was making a white corn likker, not scotch or rye. And it was better than the jar most passed around the fire, and far better than the only white corn on the market back then. So yeah, be realistic with what you're making. Make something that can easily be enjoyed fresh. That's mostly vodka and various folk spirits like corn n sugar, some fruit spirits, or a really tightly cut or refluxed light rum.

My number one tip though? Scale. I upgraded to a keg boiler fairly early on and nothing before or since has made such an instant improvement. Cuts. Volume to sit on. Patience to let stuff age. Warm fuzzy security that one full batch of something for now will put 3 gallons on the shelf. By the time that's gone you can have 15 gallons aging, being reworked and rerun, whatever. The only things I've done that have come close to being as universally helpful are all logistical and workload things, running on the grain, no more straining, ferment control, working in season etc.
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by Bph »

My first run was pretty great. I did 40# of corn and 5# of honeysuckle that I converted using enzymes. I ran it as slow as I could and it was tasty. Smooth and full of flavor. But... Now I run it hot and dirty. Been collecting up my lowwines to do my spirit runs in the future. I dont see any reason why they wont come out good. My plan next year is to spend even more time picking honeysuckel so I have as much as possible. I want to try just adding dried flowers to the boiler with the wash. The flavor was special. I hope I can recreate but I plan to make it even better. Just keep making shit and give it time. From what I understand time is the most important ingredient.
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by WithOrWithoutU2 »

Bph wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:58 am From what I understand time is the most important ingredient.
+1 :thumbup:
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by n_plains_drifter »

Late to the party.

My first is eminently drinkable, but I've had this craft as a to-do since the late 70's, and I've been lurking here and learning for a half dozen years. Add to that that I've been brewing for 20+ years and wine for the last 8 or so, and I had a bunch of the basics down.
First was an AG corn whiskey that was my Valhalla. By some luck, I hit everything on the nose, kept a very conservative cut, and and while not perfect, sharing is in its future.

Next was some simple sugar washes, and one batch was 4x distilled for neutral. It is amazingly good, and I've shared it to rave reviews.

I recently did an AG trad bourbon recipe and I missed on total conversion. In first tastings, I wonder if I didn't keep a bit too much tails. But age it a bit and it will probably be fine. But what I learned is that even with my experiences, there is still a lot to learn.

Long story short: There are probably 100 variables that affect output. Experience can't be bought. Others have said that repetition is a key to getting quality product. I'll suggest that repetition breeds an understanding of the variables, and a distiller looking to improve will learn from the repetition and be willing to expand horizons.

YMMV, Drifter
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by WithOrWithoutU2 »

Another update...

I have about 4L of Irish Whiskey sitting on once used Oak for about 6 weeks. And it is by far the best I've done so far and really look forward to sharing it. I made it for a friend because I lost a friendly bet. I just hope I will pull it off oak at the right time so I don't over oak.
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by Deplorable »

Well, I've yet to throw anything I've made away. There was one jug of KSSF that I somehow missed the heads cut terrible and had to add that to the feints keg and redistill it as part of my first neutral run, but so far everything else has been drinkable.
Last edited by Deplorable on Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by bluc »

I was suprised how good my first rum Was too.
If your trying to replicate store bought your in for lots heartache. If you just wanna make a good drop I dont think its that hard..
Having said that some exceptional spirit has stuck its head up more then once in my trials. Making every batch exceptional and trying to nail down specific profiles is when it gets difficult.

Store bought burbon twang is the hardest for me to nail down so far..
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Re: How long before first success?

Post by dukethebeagle120 »

Truckinbutch wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:05 pm My good friend Georgia Flatwoods says that 'patience is the hardest thing to put into good whiskey .'
That said ; I started out with a simple keg boiler and a Liebig condenser doing sugar washes . Rough , but drinkable . Focused on sweetfeed and got good at it with BigBob's help .
Was drug kicking and screaming into the AG realm when I was introduced to enzymes as opposed to malted grain conversions .
And then I built a keg thumper and pushed it to it's limits for stripping and spirit runs . Learned more about making cuts and airing and blending .
Few people get it all right the first time .
Focus on one good recipe and vary your approach until you get good at that . Then vary a little bit to find what best fits your pistol .
I haven't had anybody bitch my offerings at several S-3 gatherings .
I followed your advide a few years back on the thumper strip.
That uped my game 1000%
I never looked back.
That uped yhe quality of my spirits
its better to think like a fool but keep your mouth shut,then to open ur mouth and have it confirmed
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