CCVM still first time build

Many like to post about a first successful ferment (or first all grain mash), or first still built/bought or first good run of the still. Tell us about all of these great times here.
Pics are VERY welcome, we drool over pretty copper 8)

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NormandieStill
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by NormandieStill »

£60 is not horrendous (but it's very satisfying to do it yourself). I was quote 250EUR to MIG weld two ferrules onto a keg. I don't know anyone near here who has a TIG welder and I suspect the prices will not be much different.

If you make a cut out in the top ring of the keg (where the handles are) which makes access to the top and placement of condenser easier, you also get a big piece of scrap stainless with which to practice your soldering skills.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by S-Cackalacky »

Soldering stainless to stainless is a much different animal than copper to copper. Do some good research before you begin. There's a lot of good info here on the forum and also on YouTube.

After doing the initial soldering, do a leak test. If you have pinhole leaks, go at it with soft solder and a propane torch as a filler. Try to use less heat so as to not re-liquify the silver soldering.

Use a good cleaning protocol and the correct materials and you shouldn't have any problems. Good luck with it.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by MooseMan »

Thanks guys your support and advice is reminding me why i love forums and hate using FB.

Progress on the first hole/fit.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by NormandieStill »

That's looking like it might do the job. When you come to heat it, you'll want to put more heat on the nut than on the keg as there's more material. Keep the heat moving all the time, but move it more on the nut. And maybe when the solder starts to melt and wick into the joint, put a bit of heat right inside the nut where you cut the shoulder to encourage it all the way inside. That way you it'll be sealed on the inside of the keg as well (And you'll get a nice solid joint). I suspect that a soldered joint like that will handle any stress you put on it as well as a TIGed one.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by S-Cackalacky »

I like those fittings you're using for your heating elements. I've used 1" ss lockouts, but they don't have those nice little nipples to hold them in place while soldering. Neat trick.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by MooseMan »

Ok, so I've had no time at all to do anything else with my setup this week. (A full time job, a small business, 2 volunteer positions and way to many hobbies!)

But some very sexy stainless parts turned up in the post, so I've done a bit of measuring up this evening ready to chop the column to length. :D
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by kimbodious »

Getting there Moose! If the info is any help, the packed section on my 2” CCVM is 48” long. I have a sightglass tee on top of that before the offtake. It makes it really tall.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by MooseMan »

Thanks kimbodious.
My column is 2.5" but I was going to go with 48" length below the tee same as you. Do you think I'd be wise to go longer than that with 2.5"? I have the material to go way longer.
I only have 2x 2kw elements, so don't want to be struggling to push enough distillate up there.

This would mean a step to reach up to adjust the RC but that's no big deal. I'm more concerned that the neighbors might wonder what the odd looking shiny/copper thing is sticking up out of my garden!

What benefit do you get from the sight glass?
Does it make the still easier to run?
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by The Baker »

I'm more concerned that the neighbours might wonder what the odd looking shiny/copper thing is sticking up out of my garden!

Stick a flag on the top?

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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by kimbodious »

When you have a packed column there is always a risk that the condensate from the RC can’t return back to the boiler quick enough. The low purity condensate can actually spill out via the outtake. If you have a sightglass immediately below the outtake you can watch for the build up of the condensate and reduce power before the condensate floods out via the outtake.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by MooseMan »

kimbodious wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:21 am When you have a packed column there is always a risk that the condensate from the RC can’t return back to the boiler quick enough. The low purity condensate can actually spill out via the outtake. If you have a sightglass immediately below the outtake you can watch for the build up of the condensate and reduce power before the condensate floods out via the outtake.
Ah, I get you, and you'd not see that happening with no sight glass so would be relying on experience to tell you it's happening, which I certainly won't have for some time!

Very glad that I stumped up the extra for the TC parts now, as once I have the spare funds I'll be able to buy a sight glass and add in to the setup.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by MooseMan »

Decided I'm going to go for a nice round 50 inches for column length. This gets me just into the 20x diameter ratio that seems to be the ideal?

It will require a small step to reach the RC but won't make the setup so high that it's really conspicuous to my neighbors.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by kimbodious »

All good Moose! I put a lot of thought and time into assembling my CCVM yet only run it once a year now, but when I do I am grateful for the time and effort! Your neighbours will probably appreciate a Christmas gift of some liqueur particularly once they understand it was locally made.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by MooseMan »

kimbodious wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:37 am Your neighbours will probably appreciate a Christmas gift of some liqueur particularly once they understand it was locally made.
Yes I'm sure they will! :D
On top of the cider, blackberry wine etc..
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by MooseMan »

Quick update.
I've had a couple of "Spare" hours, so cut the copper column to length and made another easy flange on the other end, cleaned up and faced off.
All fitted together lovely so I'm very pleased with progress so far.
IMG_20210620_120149_602~2.jpg
I now need to turn my attention to what PC I make.
I have about 40" of 2.5" copper left, plus several lengths of 28mm, 22mm, 15mm and a coil of 10mm. And a foot of 3" that I found!
Suggestions very welcome!
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by Rum Agol »

You could make a liebig from the 22mm and 15mm but I would suggest a shotgun using the 2.5" and the 15mm. Its a bit more difficult to build but with a flange would fit your existing TC set up and be a lot more compact.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by S-Cackalacky »

If you have the skills and patience, go with a shotgun PC. It has the best knock down power for stripping runs. A dimroth is probably the easiest PC build. There's plenty of build info for both here on the forums.

I like your modular design. Use it to your advantage by taking the top RC section, from tee and above and flip it upside-down to use as your pot still. This way you won't need to remove the packing each time you run in pot still mode. Check out Kimbodious' build thread to see an example.

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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by Sailman »

A shotgun really isn't that hard if you take your time. Look up ez 2in shotgun condenser by Twisted Brick, if you don't have the tools or skills to cut out the baffles. This is what I did and haven't looked back.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by MooseMan »

Ok, I know I'm getting WAY ahead of myself here, but I've just found 4 of these and got them FOC.
16" long, 6" plus dia, 4mm wall thickness.
Should be pretty sturdy, probably toughened anyway I'd guess.
Could I use in my build? :D
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by MooseMan »

Short update to my progress here, as I'm very frustrated. It's rare that I let something beat me.

I have tried 3 times to silver solder the element inserts into the keg and, despite doing the research, the nice tight fit on the turned shoulder, good prep and having what seems to be the correct materials (5% silver solder, kester liquid flux) I simply cannot get the solder to take well.
After the 3rd attempt with the solder beading off and clumping, I called it a day.
My time is too precious at the moment to keep wasting it.

I reached out to a few local friends and managed to get a guy in a local car specialist place to tig them in (Back flushed, proper job) for £50, picking the keg back up next week.
I wish I'd done that to begin with...
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by S-Cackalacky »

My keg boiler took a while too. In the end I had one little pin hole leak around the element fitting. Solved that by using some soft plumber's solder as a filler with less heat so as not to liquefy the silver solder. I got that good advice from Swedish Pride who is well known for f'ing things up and finding ways to fix it - man's a genius...
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by NormandieStill »

MooseMan wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:01 am Short update to my progress here, as I'm very frustrated. It's rare that I let something beat me.

I have tried 3 times to silver solder the element inserts into the keg and, despite doing the research, the nice tight fit on the turned shoulder, good prep and having what seems to be the correct materials (5% silver solder, kester liquid flux) I simply cannot get the solder to take well.
After the 3rd attempt with the solder beading off and clumping, I called it a day.
My time is too precious at the moment to keep wasting it.

I reached out to a few local friends and managed to get a guy in a local car specialist place to tig them in (Back flushed, proper job) for £50, picking the keg back up next week.
I wish I'd done that to begin with...
Price seems reasonable so not a total loss.

That said. Which flux was it? I just took a look at the Kester product line and their liquid fluxes seem to all be for wave soldering of circuit boards. You need a flux designed for use with stainless steel. I have one from Griffon (A Belgian manufacturer which is for stainless and zinc). StayBrite have one which you might have more joy getting in the UK than I had in Europe. If it doesn't specifically mention that it's for stainless, then it probably won't work. If you have any friends in the roofing trade who work with zinc, ask if you can test their flux.

If it's not the flux then I'd guess that you didn't get it hot enough. You do really want to try and get some solder to flow onto a piece of scrap before you start working on the real thing though. Just to get an idea of how it behaves,
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Higher silver content in the solder makes it easier.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by MooseMan »

Thanks guys, I think the flux may not be the correct one, I was given it when I asked at work for "Acid flux" and didn't want to explain further.

I did look around for flux specific to stainless, and the only one I found that's not online order was £40, so for another tenner I'm actually very happy that I'm having them tigged in.
I would have spent way more by the time i bought the flux and higher silver bearing solder.

I'll still give the area as good a polish as I can when I get it back, just to make sure. I can get a finger in and around to the back of the weld.

Is there anything recommended to use for helping re-passivate?
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by MooseMan »

NormandieStill wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:38 am
MooseMan wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:01 am You do really want to try and get some solder to flow onto a piece of scrap before you start working on the real thing though. Just to get an idea of how it behaves,
Neglected to mention, before I had a go at the keg, I tried soldering the waste nipples that I parted off my inserts, to a scrap bit of stainless plate, and got a bead, but nowhere near good enough for a seal, and it didn't have any strength at all.
Possibly got a partial result with that as there was no real material mass, to wick away the heat.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by MooseMan »

First go at winding a coil went surprisingly well!
3/8" packed with well dried builders sand.
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Made a rough and ready mandrel out of a length of Ali that had a useful flat on it to help hold the copper tail.

A mate came over to rotate the mandrel for me while I ran the coil over it nice and slow.

Not at all pretty, but it should do the job, great water flow through it too.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by Bushman »

Coils for some members are one of the hardest part of the still to build. My first still was a VM with a double helix coil. I was lucky enough to pick up a couple pillow blocks for cheap at a garage sale that made the job a lot easier. I also filled the tube with silica sand, a lot easier than salt to remove to keep it from kinking.
Good job, should serve you well.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

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Bushman wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:21 am Coils for some members are one of the hardest part of the still to build. My first still was a VM with a double helix coil. I was lucky enough to pick up a couple pillow blocks for cheap at a garage sale that made the job a lot easier. I also filled the tube with silica sand, a lot easier than salt to remove to keep it from kinking.
Good job, should serve you well.
Thanks Bushman I'm really pleased with how it went. I expected some flattening and thought it would be harder to keep tight to the mandrel, but it wound pretty easily really!
I had no pillow blocks/bearings, so I used a pair of house bricks (The type with holes in) lined with plastic film to rotate the mandrel in. Very rough and ready!

In fact it went so easily that I'm thinking of doing it again and making a Dimroth type PC, instead of buying copper sheet to make a shotgun.
Will a Dimroth knock down as well in 2.5" do you think?
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by OtisT »

MooseMan wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:44 amIn fact it went so easily that I'm thinking of doing it again and making a Dimroth type PC, instead of buying copper sheet to make a shotgun.
Will a Dimroth knock down as well in 2.5" do you think?
Yes. I have made and used a 2”, 3”, and 4” dimroth style condenser in my columns and I have a 2” dimroth PC that I’ve used with success for years. Designed/sized right they offer a lot of knockdown power in a compact space, similar to a shotty. Otis

I should note there is one issue I have found with a dimroth PC. Product output can be warm or hot at higher powers. The issue is that the shell of the dimroth is heated by vapor and the shell is not cooled (unless you do some extra design work). Product cooled by the coil drips onto parts warmed by the shell before existing the condenser giving you warmer output. My 2” dimroth will produce cool output up to about 2000- 2500w before it starts coming out warm. Stripping at 5500w my output is very warm. Warm output has never been a problem for me, but I did build a 2” shotty I use more now and am happy with its performance. My dimroth can be seen in the Pot-n-thumper thread in my signature below, and i built my shotty with Twisted Brick’s plates that he sells.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by MooseMan »

Thanks for the info Otis, really useful!

I do understand what you mean regarding the shell warming the product back up after its dripped off the coil.
This may, oddly, not be a problem for me, as I was planning to make some kind of "Brace" or leg to support the PC section and make the still setup in general a little more stable.
So if I surrounded the bottom section of the Dimroth shell with Ali and bolted on a couple of heatsinks, this should provide extra cooling mass and keep the shell much cooler?
If it still proves an issue I could even add a couple of 12v computer fans to add air cooling!?
(Fully air cooled still was actually my intention when I started research, but I think I need to learn to run a still first before I start getting clever!)
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