CCVM still first time build

Many like to post about a first successful ferment (or first all grain mash), or first still built/bought or first good run of the still. Tell us about all of these great times here.
Pics are VERY welcome, we drool over pretty copper 8)

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MooseMan
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by MooseMan »

Got my keg back after having the element inserts welded in.
I'm very happy as it's a real neat job.
16258152416511970916137016651400.jpg
I did a quick read up on re-passivating, and it seems an acid paste for around 15mins contact is enough, so once I've cleaned the weld areas of heat staining I will make a paste up with citric and oxalic acid and slap it on!
The hole is just big enough that I can get my little finger in around to the inside, and because I turned that shoulder into the fittings, it's a nice neat groove, so I'll paste that up to re-passivate as well.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by MooseMan »

Cleaned and passivated.
16258244784933299968513699357300.jpg
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by Yummyrum »

Looks good moose

Whats your story on the passivating ?

Did you use the concoction you mentioned ?

What was your method , how long did it take ?
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by Hambone »

Do you need to heat the acid paste to passivate? Seems like I’ve read citric acid heated to 150 F…
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Re: CCVM still first time build

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Yummyrum wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:12 am Looks good moose

Whats your story on the passivating ?

Did you use the concoction you mentioned ?

What was your method , how long did it take ?
Thanks Yummy

I cleaned up the heat staining with a scotchbrite pad, also getting inside with a curled finger through the hole, couple minutes of work.
I then mixed a teaspoon of citric acid in a cup, with a handful of Rhubarb leaves (High in oxalic acid, cleans copper amazingly well!) Blended up to a paste.

Smeared it all over the face where the weld was, and the fitting both in and out.
Left in contact for nearly 30 mins then scraped it off and dried the area with a clean rag, it needs oxygen to then passivate the area according to the site I read.
I saw no mention of having to heat it so I applied cold.

I'll leave it 24hrs now before I touch it or get it wet.

Thanks for your interest in any case!
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by MooseMan »

Whilst the keg was "Pickling" I made another coil with the help of a mate, who seems to be my lucky copper winding mascot, as this one went really well too!
Poppy seems to like it! :clap:

The first one I wound is going to be a Dimroth for the PC, and I'm going to try this second one out as the reflux coil, it's a cold finger single coil, 16" plus length in 10mm. I'll Pack some scrubbies or copper wire into the voids to create a larger surface area I think?

IMG_20210709_124148_922.jpg
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by Deplorable »

Nice coil. I found with mine that it was more efficient without any packing between the coils. But mine is half the length and the coils a good bit closer together.
signal-2021-01-16-104457.jpg
Now I only run it with a small beard of mesh to help direct the alcohol toward the center of the packing.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by MooseMan »

Deplorable wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:55 am Nice coil. I found with mine that it was more efficient without any packing between the coils. But mine is half the length and the coils a good bit closer together. signal-2021-01-16-104457.jpg
Now I only run it with a small beard of mesh to help direct the alcohol toward the center of the packing.
Cheers, and thanks for sharing the image of yours, it's always good to see how others are doing things.
I think sometimes I learn more from a picture than from reading explanations, that's why I'm trying to get as many pics up as possible I suppose?!

I'll try running my coil like that first then, with just one bit of scrunched up copper at the bottom, and see if I get the knock down that I need.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by Yummyrum »

Thanks Moose , thats Awesome

Have heard there are commercial passivating solutions with things as nasty as Hydroflouric acid in them , so pleasing to hear good results from safer alternatives . :thumbup:
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Re: CCVM still first time build

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Yummyrum wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:05 am Thanks Moose , thats Awesome

Have heard there are commercial passivating solutions with things as nasty as Hydroflouric acid in them , so pleasing to hear good results from safer alternatives . :thumbup:
Thank you.

Yes on an industrial scale, SS is usually dipped in hot nitric acid to quickly passivate post production, probably what Hambone was referring to.

I'm a bit like that in general, if I can use a natural product/method/ingredient I will.
I brew with a lot of plant based ingredients that I forage locally as well.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by kimbodious »

Yummyrum wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:05 am Thanks Moose , thats Awesome

Have heard there are commercial passivating solutions with things as nasty as Hydroflouric acid in them , so pleasing to hear good results from safer alternatives . :thumbup:
I made up some hydrofluoric acid once for cleaning up sight glasses in effets, man that stuff made me hyper careful :egeek:. It was good gear for the task but geez it frightened me!
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by MooseMan »

kimbodious wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:21 am
Yummyrum wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:05 am Thanks Moose , thats Awesome

Have heard there are commercial passivating solutions with things as nasty as Hydroflouric acid in them , so pleasing to hear good results from safer alternatives . :thumbup:
I made up some hydrofluoric acid once for cleaning up sight glasses in effets, man that stuff made me hyper careful :egeek:. It was good gear for the task but geez it frightened me!
Hell no!
Scary stuff...

Once silly mistake and it's a life changer, so I'd rather stay away! :shock:
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by MooseMan »

Ok, bit of spare time again this afternoon, so I spread my 3rd (And hopefully final!) easy flange, backfilled with solder then filed and polished the face.
I've noticed that already my non existent soldering skills have improved just from doing the few bits that I've done in the past couple of weeks.
The solder build up on my first easy flange looked like a bird had shat on it, the second one, like I'd thrown it on from the other side of the garden, but this one actually looks, well, half decent! :D
IMG_20210711_171251_659.jpg
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Re: CCVM still first time build

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So now I have the main still parts essentially fully completed.
IMG_20210711_184152_597.jpg
I'm going to use the 1st coil that I wound as a Dimroth PC, and here's where I could do with some advice.


My plan is, to cut the PC to around 400mm (Is this enough?) and leave open ended, (A-la Dad300 style PC condenser but all copper) with the coil in/out tails folded back in the upward position so that the product drips off the bottom edge of the shell.

In my head it would be wise to cut the end of the 2.5" at a bit of an angle and fold a little tag down off the bottom edge, to help direct the product and maintain a nice clean drip/stream point.
Am I over thinking this, and do any of you guys see a flaw in my plan? I'm making the assumption that my double coil will have no trouble knocking down everything that gets there, but I can always add shell cooling if needed.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by Archee72 »

Interesting project, thanks for sharing it 👍
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by MooseMan »

Thanks Archee, I wanted to get as many images as poss into the thread as I find that if I can't hold something in my hands to see how it works, (I seem to be able too "Get" how stuff works quickly that way) it helps me loads to see images as well as reading how things are done.

There's probably an "Ism" for that these days... :lol:
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Re: CCVM still first time build

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Ah well, no one weighed in to tell me my Dimroth idea was a crap one, or doomed to fail, so I went ahead and did it anyway.

I cut the PC shell (Kept at 2.5") to 500mm long, which gives me lots of open space at the end of the coil for condensate to run freely and hopefully further cool. If it turns out to not be efficient enough I'll add some kind of shell cooling.
I put a small divot in the bottom of the shell open end, to hopefully direct the stream.
IMG_20210713_202524_176.jpg

I've cut and bent the tails at 90° now and added 10mm push fits to keep everything neat and tidy.
I have 10mm push fit plastic tubing ready to go.

Took a few shots to show the condenser lengths and how the RC suits in the tee.
IMG_20210713_202602_187.jpg
IMG_20210713_202754_891.jpg
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by kimbodious »

I have thoroughly enjoyed following this blog of your build! I also have a CCVM. At the risk of making your column any taller may I suggest that you treat yourself to a sightglass or a sight tower for immediately under the offtake? This will give you really important visual confirmation of the conditions inside the column.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by OtisT »

I’ll bet that PC works just fine. You even positioned it right to minimize any drips running down the tubing. :thumbup:

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Re: CCVM still first time build

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kimbodious wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:45 pm I have thoroughly enjoyed following this blog of your build! I also have a CCVM. At the risk of making your column any taller may I suggest that you treat yourself to a sightglass or a sight tower for immediately under the offtake? This will give you really important visual confirmation of the conditions inside the column.
Thanks Kimbodious that's nice of you to say.

I'll be honest, I'm already thinking about the sight tower section since you posted about it, but I simply can't justify the spend at the moment.
At the moment... :lol:
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Re: CCVM still first time build

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OtisT wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:50 pm I’ll bet that PC works just fine. You even positioned it right to minimize any drips running down the tubing. :thumbup:

Otis
I really hope so Otis, I've based it loosely on DAD300s Dimroth design that he shared pics of, so I guess it will work to some extent at least.
I did want the extra open section at the end too, which gives me scope to improve should I need it.

And yes, I put a bit of thought into where the tails come out after looking at as many images on here as possible, so that the condensate will hopefully run cleanly down to the bottom of the shell diameter.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by S-Cackalacky »

I like the work you did on your Dimroth PC. I did something similar, but with different materials. I started with a 2"x36" ss sanitary spool. I drilled two holes maybe 4" from one end of the spool using a step bit. I then used an angle grinder to cut the tube about midway from the center of the holes at an angle down to near the end of the spool. I slightly bent the pointy end for the same reason you did for yours. The two notches simply prevent the CSST from sliding around, much like the notch you cut in yours.

Anyway, just another way for the newbies who may view this thread. Here are a couple of pics:
20170227_122914.jpg
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by MooseMan »

Cor, I like that S-C!

It looks sort of aggressive, in a Sci-fi kind of way!

I was going to go with the angle on mine too originally, but decided to keep it square ended until I know if I will need to mod it once run a few times.
The little folded back tag was left there so that I can use it to fix the coil tails onto, should I need to. Since I've not run a still before, I don't know how much thermal expansion/contraction I'm going to be dealing with, so what seems a nice fit now, might get real loose, or tight.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by kimbodious »

MooseMan wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:16 pm I'll be honest, I'm already thinking about the sight tower section since you posted about it, but I simply can't justify the spend at the moment.
I know exactly how that feels! :thumbup: Can’t wait until I get to read about your first runs with this still.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by BlueSasquatch »

Passivated? I thought with new keg builds you just ran a vinegar and then ran a sacrificial run as cleaning prep?
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by TwoSheds »

BlueSasquatch wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:34 am Passivated? I thought with new keg builds you just ran a vinegar and then ran a sacrificial run as cleaning prep?
Cleaning runs are about getting rid of gunk that could get into your product. Flux being the one that's called out most, but any type of treatment/coating that's hanging on there.

Passivating (which was new to me too) is about making stainless steel do what you want it to. Stainless is actually protected by a thin layer of oxidation on the outer surface which prevents the typical ugly and destructive rust you get on plain steel.

Passivating is about bringing back that protective layer after you strip it away, like if you welded on it.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by MooseMan »

Yes TwoSheds that's how I understand it.

I was vaguely aware of the need to Re-Passivate SS after hot working it, before I started the build, but I did a bit of reading after getting the element fittings welded and found the best info on a brewing site.

I assume external links are ok?
"Passivating Stainless Steel Beer Brewing Equipment to Prevent Corrosion | BeerSmith Brewing Blog" http://beersmith.com/blog/2017/01/09/pa ... corrosion/
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by MooseMan »

Could I just ask a couple of questions?

Am I right in thinking that it's best to connect PC to cooling water first, then outlet from PC, into RC, so the slightly warmer water is going through the RC?

And for a single wound RC coil with finger, flow direction should be around coil and out of finger?

And double wound PC coil, flow goes in to outside coil and out of inner?

I know I can try both ways myself, but I'd rather set up correctly first time.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by kimbodious »

I can get away by running my condensers in series. The cold water goes in through the product condenser and then out through the reflux condenser.

I can’t give any advice on which way the water should be routed through the actual coils.
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Re: CCVM still first time build

Post by Deplorable »

I run mine separately and control them both from valves on a water manifold.
I run my cooling water into the coil, (single wound) and out through the center. right or wrong, that's how I do it and it works well for me.
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