My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Many like to post about a first successful ferment (or first all grain mash), or first still built/bought or first good run of the still. Tell us about all of these great times here.
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My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by mudflap »

Where I live I'm lucky enough to have an abundance of free apples. From what I'm told, this is the best kind of apple for making brandy :wink: Keep in mind, and as will become glaringly obvious, I am very much a novice distiller. However, it was late summer, and not even the birds were eating the apples, due to having plenty of other food sources, because of the fairly wet, green summer. Anyway, I collected as many apples as I could with what little spare time I had. Now, two mistakes I made here. Firstly, I should have started collecting earlier, and gotten more apples. Secondly, I didn't record how many apples I collected. I want to say somewhere close to 200kg (440 pounds), but I could be way off.

I have one apple tree on my property, my parents have one on theirs, and a nearby vineyard I'm friendly with has a patch of two or three real big trees. The first two trees, I plucked mostly off of the branches, and any damage from wildlife was fresh and easy to cut around come processing time. The apples I collected from the vineyard, for whatever reason, had mostly started to fall off the trees, so the majority I collected were from the ground. I reckon these trees had already been collected from, but who knows. Long story short, most of the apples had that deep sugary smell, heading towards what you would call rotten (but not unpleasant), as opposed to a fresh "appley" smell.
One of the apple trees, with a local Rosella.
One of the apple trees, with a local Rosella.
Next, was to get to juicin'. I'd bought a stainless steel juice press off of ebay, and to be honest I had no clue what I was doing. I just dumped the apples in whole, twisted down on the press, and fuck-all happened. I cursed dodgy Chinese manufacturers and gave up. But, with a healthy reminder to myself that I am an idiot, I did a few minutes of research and used the thing as intended. Firstly, I cut up the apples into quarters / eighths, discarding any yucky bits to the chickens. Secondly, I put the pieces into a bucket and mashed down upon them with a semi-clean wooden fence post. Thirdly, lining the press with a muslin cloth, I then filled it with my apple mush and lo-and-behold, I twisted down and a healthy amount of fresh smelling juice sprung forth. Rinse and repeat, for about two solid evening of manual labour, I was rewarded with a bit under 25 liters (6.6 gallons) of juice.

Now, I distinctly remember taking a gravity reading here, but I can't for the life of me find where I recorded it. Lesson learned! I am somewhat confident it was about 1.066. I added a packet of EC-1118 yeast, and left it. I knew enough to know that this fermentation was not going to happen in a hurry, so I left it undisturbed for three weeks. The first time I checked, it was 1.03. I checked a week later, 1.03. Convincing myself it had stalled, I ordered two more packets of EC-1118. When they arrived, I activated them and prepared to pour them into the fermenter. Luckily, I checked the gravity again and it read 0.95. I used the yeast for something else, and stuck to protocol for once, leaving the fermenter alone for another month.
Possibly the end of the ferment? I did not take good records.
Possibly the end of the ferment? I did not take good records.
The stripping run was fairly uneventful. It was however, sinking in that I did not have enough juice to begin with. I ran my 25L pot still until the distillate was cloudy, discarding about 100ml of foreshots. I ended up with about 3 liters (0.8 gallons?). Due to life reasons, these low wines sat on the shelf for another month and a bit.

Now, I knew this spirit run good potentially be a little dicey. 3 liters in a 25 liter boiler is not ideal. My elements are covered so I wasn't too worried about that, however it does make my still very top-heavy. So I strapped it to the roof beams best I could, and used some clamps to make sure it didn't topple over as the boiler emptied. Turns out she was solid, and did not fall over. I discarded fuck-all foreshots, as I'm told this is where the flavour hides. I took conservative cuts, about 200ml each. I ran her down to about 65-70% ABV, I knew there was barely anything left in the boiler at this point, and it wasn't worth the risk for what little tails I would get. I left the jars air overnight (possibly two), and starting in the middle, I tasted, took notes, and blended the night away.

From my notes, I noted baked apple (shocker), "good" apple, "nice applyness", "a bit weird" and "this should mellow". My tasting and blending skills have a lot of room for improvement, obviously. Not being totally off-put by any of the jars, I kept everything, and mixed them all together. I put a piece of very lightly toasted French Oak, from a red wine barrel, into the jar. This is it about two weeks later;
This was just after reducing the amount of wood.
This was just after reducing the amount of wood.
Planning on tasting it again at Christmas. I you've made it this far, I really appreciate you reading and not judging my stupidity too harshly. Any comments or advice are totally welcome. Cheers!
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by Demy »

I built a grinder (washing machine engine) for fruit because it is really difficult without. You have to grind your fruit, then you decide whether to separate the juice (using a press) or ferment with the pulp (I recommend this option because your product will be more aromatic). The best result is achieved with very mature fruit, I tell you from experience, I chopped non-ripe fruit (hard as the stones) and the yield is very poor, poor also the aroma. In any case, great job is always useful to experience!
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by Hambone »

Good story!

I have a meat grinder and put my fruit through that with 1/2 inch grind plate.
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by S-Cackalacky »

My favorite tipple is Apple brandy. First time I made it, I went through a similar process as yours. That one time was enough for this old fart. I now buy cheap apple juice at Walmart and take a less laborious approach. Cost more, but flavor seems about the same.

In your case, I'm sure the learning experience was probably worth more than what came out of the spout. If you want to learn more about producing apple brandy, read some of Jimbo's and Cranky's threads on the subject. Those two are the all time HD apple brandy junky nerds.
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by Bushman »

A grinder is the only way. Apples are easy to get so I got my two adult kids and my wife’s brother to split the cost of a grinder. The grinder is portable 22 lbs. see photo below. I then press it with a 20 ton press from Harbor Freight.
D4E07667-E836-4C96-819B-ADA626A16086.jpeg
My whole process other than I replaced the grinder can be found here:
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 83&t=51537
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by Setsumi »

congrats on your product. from 3 lt low wines you say you did not discard any foreshots to preserve flavours? ok, did you do a fores cut on your your strip? and you kept the rest down to 70%? what about heads? do you run a column or a pot?... i may be wrong but you should stock up on panado.
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by MooseMan »

Very interesting Mudflap!

I'm a cide maker of many years, so can offer a couple of tips that may help you next season!

Build or aquire a "Scratter" of some type.
I've been through several iterations from smashing them up with a bucket and lump of wood, through to a full on washing machine creation that was a monster.
What I use now is the best so far no question.

I got hold of one of those garden shredders, the ones you put twigs in etc.
Block the feed port in the side, open up the hole in the top to a size to take apples, jack up one side so that juice can run out quick, give it a really good clean out and your done!
I've also altered the angle of the blades inside to a more blunt profile, so that they kind of "Rip" the apples rather than cut them, as I find that apple bits around pea sized, yield far more juice when pressed than fully pulped as that tends to block the cheese cloth.
It will triple your yield over what you're doing now, with a few other tweaks to process.

Build yourself a big press, as that's the bit that takes time. I can press 4 full "Cheeses" at a time and get about 30l per press.
It's super simple if you can build a still.
Big wooden frame, car jack, something to contain the cheeses and something to catch the juice.

Pick the apples as late as you can, and any hard ones you get, (Some trees ripen way later) wash and store them until they start to get nice and soft, way more sugary juice yield for the same work!

I could go on but that's the stuff that will get you better results quickly, so hope it helps!
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by Demy »

1625691010676-min.jpg
I built this a few years ago
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by mudflap »

Demy wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:53 pm 1625691010676-min.jpgI built this a few years ago
Hi Demy, that looks impressive. It's good to know I can ferment on the pulp, definitely what I will do next time. Also good to know I seem to have foraged at the right time regarding the age of the fruit. Cheers!
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by mudflap »

MooseMan wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:30 am Very interesting Mudflap!

I'm a cide maker of many years, so can offer a couple of tips that may help you next season!

Build or aquire a "Scratter" of some type.
I've been through several iterations from smashing them up with a bucket and lump of wood, through to a full on washing machine creation that was a monster.
What I use now is the best so far no question.

I got hold of one of those garden shredders, the ones you put twigs in etc.
Block the feed port in the side, open up the hole in the top to a size to take apples, jack up one side so that juice can run out quick, give it a really good clean out and your done!
I've also altered the angle of the blades inside to a more blunt profile, so that they kind of "Rip" the apples rather than cut them, as I find that apple bits around pea sized, yield far more juice when pressed than fully pulped as that tends to block the cheese cloth.
It will triple your yield over what you're doing now, with a few other tweaks to process.

Build yourself a big press, as that's the bit that takes time. I can press 4 full "Cheeses" at a time and get about 30l per press.
It's super simple if you can build a still.
Big wooden frame, car jack, something to contain the cheeses and something to catch the juice.

Pick the apples as late as you can, and any hard ones you get, (Some trees ripen way later) wash and store them until they start to get nice and soft, way more sugary juice yield for the same work!

I could go on but that's the stuff that will get you better results quickly, so hope it helps!
Mooseman! this is golden info, I really appreciate it. Just so I'm understanding, the apples go through the Scratter/shredder -> then the "cheese" goes into the press? Just out of curiosity have you fermented onto the "cheese" (assuming this is like some kind of pulp-cake?) rather than juice?

Again, super helpful, really appreciate it!
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by mudflap »

Setsumi wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:36 am congrats on your product. from 3 lt low wines you say you did not discard any foreshots to preserve flavours? ok, did you do a fores cut on your your strip? and you kept the rest down to 70%? what about heads? do you run a column or a pot?... i may be wrong but you should stock up on panado.
Hi Setsumi, thanks. As per my post I did discard foreshots, 100ml in my stripping run and about 50ml or so in my spirit run. My understanding is that a novice such as myself should risk going too far into the heads rather than lose any apple flavours. Also as per my post, I ran a 25L pot still.
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by mudflap »

Bushman wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:17 am A grinder is the only way. Apples are easy to get so I got my two adult kids and my wife’s brother to split the cost of a grinder. The grinder is portable 22 lbs. see photo below. I then press it with a 20 ton press from Harbor Freight.
D4E07667-E836-4C96-819B-ADA626A16086.jpeg

My whole process other than I replaced the grinder can be found here:
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 83&t=51537
Appreciate the wisdom Bushman. I had come across that post in my research, however the mulcher / press setup was a bit much for my first attempt. As you can probably tell I'm hooked now, will definitely get a grinder > press setup for next season. Cheers!
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by mudflap »

S-Cackalacky wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:04 am My favorite tipple is Apple brandy. First time I made it, I went through a similar process as yours. That one time was enough for this old fart. I now buy cheap apple juice at Walmart and take a less laborious approach. Cost more, but flavor seems about the same.

In your case, I'm sure the learning experience was probably worth more than what came out of the spout. If you want to learn more about producing apple brandy, read some of Jimbo's and Cranky's threads on the subject. Those two are the all time HD apple brandy junky nerds.
Thanks Cackalacky. Cranky's thread from the Tried and True was my guide this particular time, I found that thread has a lot of wisdom that I'm slowly discovering applies to all aspects of distilling.

I'm keeping an eye out for cheap juice, out of curiosity how much juice do you buy at a time? and how much brandy do you end up with? Thanks again.
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by mudflap »

Hambone wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:09 am Good story!

I have a meat grinder and put my fruit through that with 1/2 inch grind plate.
Cheers Hambone! Definitely researching more mechanical processes to save my rotator cuffs from the fence post poundings! I'll keep meat grinders in mind.
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by S-Cackalacky »

mudflap wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:04 pm
S-Cackalacky wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:04 am My favorite tipple is Apple brandy. First time I made it, I went through a similar process as yours. That one time was enough for this old fart. I now buy cheap apple juice at Walmart and take a less laborious approach. Cost more, but flavor seems about the same.

In your case, I'm sure the learning experience was probably worth more than what came out of the spout. If you want to learn more about producing apple brandy, read some of Jimbo's and Cranky's threads on the subject. Those two are the all time HD apple brandy junky nerds.
Thanks Cackalacky. Cranky's thread from the Tried and True was my guide this particular time, I found that thread has a lot of wisdom that I'm slowly discovering applies to all aspects of distilling.

I'm keeping an eye out for cheap juice, out of curiosity how much juice do you buy at a time? and how much brandy do you end up with? Thanks again.
The last couple of batches I made I used about 26 gallons of Walmart Great Value brand apple juice. A 96oz bottle cost $1.74. I think 25 gallons works out to about 32 bottles of juice. To that I also added 8 or 10 cans of frozen concentrate. I use the concentrate to boost the starting gravity a bit. Anyway, money was tight at the time, so I would buy maybe 4 or 5 bottles at a time spread over a few months. All total, I probably spent about $70.00 on ingredients. After the spirit run, my final blend for aging at 62% ABV was about 1.5 gallons. Less than $12.00 per quart, still a bargain over commercial.

If you decide to go that way, check the ingredients list for preservatives. The Walmart stuff uses citric acid as the preservative which is OK. Also, I found that Lavlin 71B-1122 yeast helped with some good esters. Anyway, if you decide to use juice, I hope it works out well for you. Good luck with it.
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by The Baker »

Just out of curiosity have you fermented onto the "cheese" (assuming this is like some kind of pulp-cake?)

I've never done it, but, I think;

When the apple is pulped, the pulp is laid on a piece of hessian on a board,
the hessian is folded over the pulp.
Then another board, and so on.

All this is pressed to get the juice out, and I think what is left on the hessian is called the 'cheese' and is probably discarded.

Seems no point in pressing to get the juice out when you can with a lot less effort get more product and more flavour by fermenting direct on the pulp??

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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by MooseMan »

mudflap wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:23 pm
Mooseman! this is golden info, I really appreciate it. Just so I'm understanding, the apples go through the Scratter/shredder -> then the "cheese" goes into the press? Just out of curiosity have you fermented onto the "cheese" (assuming this is like some kind of pulp-cake?) rather than juice?

Again, super helpful, really appreciate it!
[/quote]

You're welcome, I'm getting lots of help here as a newbie Stiller making my first rig, so I'm happy if I can give anything back at all.

I never ferment on the pulp and I don't know any cider makers that do, lots of reasons why not but the main one from a "Cider" point of view probably being that it's just too much bulk to keep and makes life really hard post ferment. It's also far more prone to infection.

Yes, sort of.
The "Cheese" is the slab of freshly Scratted pulp that is prepared to go in the press.
After pressing the pulp, the dry matter left is referred to as pomace.
You can actually rehydrate the pomace with warm water and get another, weaker (Both in taste and sugar) press out of it, if you are struggling to get enough apples.
I've done it, but only once...

I'll dig a couple of pics up that I took of pressing time from a couple years back.
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by MooseMan »

By the way, put the dry pomace into your compost.

You will NEVER see so many worms in your entire life.
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by Setsumi »

mudflap wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:27 pm
Setsumi wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:36 am congrats on your product. from 3 lt low wines you say you did not discard any foreshots to preserve flavours? ok, did you do a fores cut on your your strip? and you kept the rest down to 70%? what about heads? do you run a column or a pot?... i may be wrong but you should stock up on panado.
Hi Setsumi, thanks. As per my post I did discard foreshots, 100ml in my stripping run and about 50ml or so in my spirit run. My understanding is that a novice such as myself should risk going too far into the heads rather than lose any apple flavours. Also as per my post, I ran a 25L pot still.
sorry, i did miss the 100ml foreshots on the strip run. it is true that heads is more fruity and for that reason you would want some heads in a brandy. but myself would rather err on the small side than to use all. espesialy on a pot still.
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by bluc »

I dont like heads in anything. Just sayin.
With a good ferment you should not need extra flavour from heads. Hearts should be delicious.
Ideally i would pulp fruit add zero water(all it adds is...water) then steam strip hard fast down to 10abv(20proof) Then spirit run either pot for max flavour and a little dirty, long age 12-24mnths Or 4 plates collect at 85-88abv (170-176 proof) and shorter age 6-12mnths.
Disclaimer only just getting setup for steam and not much experience with fruit(rum is my thing). But getting into whiskey and fruit will be a welcome bi product from my equipment.
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by bluc »

Oh and dont get me started on tails :crazy:
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by The Baker »

The Baker wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:34 pm Just out of curiosity have you fermented onto the "cheese" (assuming this is like some kind of pulp-cake?)

I've never done it, but, I think;

When the apple is pulped, the pulp is laid on a piece of hessian on a board,
the hessian is folded over the pulp.
Then another board, and so on.

All this is pressed to get the juice out, and I think what is left on the hessian is called the 'cheese' and is probably discarded.

Seems no point in pressing to get the juice out when you can with a lot less effort get more product and more flavour by fermenting direct on the pulp??

Geoff
P. S. Why take out the peels and cores and stuff (when you press the pulp),
only to put it in again if you add the 'cake' back???

Geoff
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by stillanoob »

Great first foray! I have been making cider for many years and I believe that the best brandy is made from cider that is so delicious you have a hard time distilling it because you want to swill it as is. I find the best drinking cider is fermented at cooler temperatures over a fairly long period. When you ferment quickly a lot of the delicate apple flavor is lost. Choice of yeast is an influence too, I prefer Mangrove Jack cider yeast. My last 29 gallon batch took 5 months to finish. I cheat and add enough honey to boost my ABV by 3%. A lot of the apple flavor is in the what is usually called the heads. When you first start the run, after the foreshot, comes a period where there is this intense green apple flavor. This is ethyl acetate and you don't want that. As soon as that flavor fades I start collecting. Then as soon as the flavor change again towards tails I am done. If you want to try longer ferments I recommend that you do not open it to check it and that you do a really good job sanitizing. Apple cider is easily infected. Have fun!
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by NormandieStill »

I have commented a few times on this subject so here are some comments on distilling and finishing an apple brandy.

Calvados is normally fermented cool (not cold) and left to sit on the lees for 6 months before distilling.
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by jonnys_spirit »

I've done batches of apple before and add pectic enzyme and ferment on the pulp - it mostly breaks down and will need to be cleared to a certain extent but PE added to the pulp 24h before pitching yeast will help with breaking down the solids through the ferment.

Grocery store juice + a bunch of apples is a good stop gap if all fresh isn't feasible for whatever reason...

Skins have good flavor too so it might be possible to infuse low wines with skins or place in the vapor path during spirit run?

Cheers!
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by S-Cackalacky »

My last apple brandy run, I got a bit too much heads into my final blend. After maturation it had some heads bite to it. To mitigate the problem, I put the product through a heat process. For this batch, I used one of those big turkey roasters. I set the temp for 150 dF with about 1.5 gallons of water in the roasting pan. I poured the brandy into quart jars to about 3/4ths full. After the water in the pan reaches 150 dF, I allow the jars to sit in hot liquid for several hours. I then turn off the roaster and allow everything to cool to room temp. I then taste it and if I'm not happy with the result, I do another cycle. It took three cycles of this last batch to get it right. The ABV dropped from 62% down to 60%.

This could also be done in a microwave oven, much like the nuclear aging process. Instead of placing lids on the jars, use coffee filers, or paper towels. Place the jars in a cooler to extend the cool down period.

I've never been very good at finding the heads to hearts cut. This process has saved a product a few times.
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Re: My First Apple Brandy (plenty of mistakes)

Post by S-Cackalacky »

jonnys_spirit wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:45 am I've done batches of apple before and add pectic enzyme and ferment on the pulp - it mostly breaks down and will need to be cleared to a certain extent but PE added to the pulp 24h before pitching yeast will help with breaking down the solids through the ferment.

Grocery store juice + a bunch of apples is a good stop gap if all fresh isn't feasible for whatever reason...

Skins have good flavor too so it might be possible to infuse low wines with skins or place in the vapor path during spirit run?

Cheers!
-j
I should have mentioned this in my earlier post about using store bought juice in a ferment. In a 26 gallon ferment, I use about a peck of a mix of different varieties of apples. I also roast the apples for some caramelization. I use one of those corer/slicer tools to cut them up, then put them on baking sheets and into a 350 dF oven until golden brown. I mash them with a potato masher. I've done this with the last couple of batches. Gives a good flavor boost.
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