My first ... year

Many like to post about a first successful ferment (or first all grain mash), or first still built/bought or first good run of the still. Tell us about all of these great times here.
Pics are VERY welcome, we drool over pretty copper 8)

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GluGlu
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My first ... year

Post by GluGlu »

Hey friends,

I will start by saying that I am extremely grateful this forum exists, and I am thanking everybody for their contributions, big or small, this forum was literally my kick start in distilling as a hobby, the volume of information here helped me in more ways than I can tell, so, a big thanks to everyone and admins for keeping this alive.

In march I moved from a busy city to the quiet countryside and looking for a hobby and being a fan of store bought brandy, I decided to go for distilling my own. The area is full of wild fruits, orchards, and a strong culture of wine making (and distillates). I literally spent two months with 40-50 browser tabs open, reading everything I could on this forum, learning and taking notes.

After this time, I bought myself a decent still, and started gathering fruit, mashing, fermenting, and the lot. In the mean time I found some old wine barrels staves (10-60 years old), so I started toasting, charring, distilling, making blends and cuts. The knowledge gathered here was and is extremely useful and I am so damn happy I got some first batches that are absolutely tremendous, TBH I never expected such good results from the first runs, and I owe this to the info I found here, so kudos!

Some photos attached.
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dieselduo
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Re: My first ... year

Post by dieselduo »

Awesome looking still !
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acfixer69
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Re: My first ... year

Post by acfixer69 »

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: Beautiful back round for the still. I'm jealous.
GluGlu
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Re: My first ... year

Post by GluGlu »

Thanks guys. I am so happy I went for copper instead of stainless steel. And yes the build is good, perfect for home use, and especially by a beginner.
Sadly winter is coming, and this season is over, first batches are already few months old so the tasting season will begin :D
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Demy
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Re: My first ... year

Post by Demy »

Welcome from me too.
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jonnys_spirit
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Re: My first ... year

Post by jonnys_spirit »

Beautiful kit GluGlu! Welcome and you’ve been busy! Looking forward to your notes.

Cheers,
J
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
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The Baker
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Re: My first ... year

Post by The Baker »

The still looks great, GluGlu.

You said, ' In the mean time I found some old wine barrels staves (10-60 years old),
so I started toasting, charring, distilling, making blends and cuts.'


What did you think of the really old staves?
I got onto some really old staves from a really big barrel.
They had been in the weather for ages...

I am working on a maybe project based on Badmotivator barrels (have you seen that in the threads? Worth a look.)
So the idea is to fit oak over the end of a one and a half litre coffee jar. Laying down.
At the moment I have cut the staves into 13 inch lengths and am steaming each piece for an hour
then clamping it between boards in the vice for an hour til the next one is ready.
There's a lot of cracks in the wood but it looks as though most can be used.
Don't know if the weather and the steaming has leached too much woodiness (...) out of the oak
but I can stick a bit of new oak in the jar...

Geoff
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GluGlu
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Re: My first ... year

Post by GluGlu »

The Baker wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 4:40 pm The still looks great, GluGlu.

You said, ' In the mean time I found some old wine barrels staves (10-60 years old),
so I started toasting, charring, distilling, making blends and cuts.'


What did you think of the really old staves?
I got onto some really old staves from a really big barrel.
They had been in the weather for ages...

I am working on a maybe project based on Badmotivator barrels (have you seen that in the threads? Worth a look.)
So the idea is to fit oak over the end of a one and a half litre coffee jar. Laying down.
At the moment I have cut the staves into 13 inch lengths and am steaming each piece for an hour
then clamping it between boards in the vice for an hour til the next one is ready.
There's a lot of cracks in the wood but it looks as though most can be used.
Don't know if the weather and the steaming has leached too much woodiness (...) out of the oak
but I can stick a bit of new oak in the jar...

Geoff
I am too new at this business to have an informed opinion but I will share what I discovered.
The first question that comes to mind is, why steaming?

The old staves I got, I cleaned the upper dirty layer with a flappy disk attached to my angle grinder until the wood looked clean. I cut the stave in 10cm long 1cm thick pieces, toasted them as per the chart circulating in this forum at 210 degrees Celsius, and before adding them to my distillates, I charred them alligator skin.
I did all these steps as I noticed mostly everybody on this forum does exactly the same, and the difference in taste and color comes from age and exposure to wine in the past. It is too early to tell you how the distillate tastes as its still too young, almost 1 month old with the toasted + charred stave pieces. I will surely follow up on this, all I can say ATM is that smelling the stuff, smells amazing and much better than batches where I put regular toasted + charred oak.

Just red about the BadMotivator barrels. Personally, from my experience, I think its way too much work and the effect is quite the same, as if you would put the toasted + charred wood pieces in glass jars along with the distillate.

Many people on this forum talk about the word surface exposed to the distillate for the best effect, in which case you can cut your old staves to little chips, toast and char them to have maximum surface exposure and use glass jars, which is much faster, less work and IMO you will have the same effect.

Again, if somebody else feels something could be done better, do not hesitate to correct me. All I can say my experiments in glass jars with toasted + charred old staves, smell pretty unexpectedly awesome and I can`t wait to taste them!

Cheers,
GluGlu.
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jonnys_spirit
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Re: My first ... year

Post by jonnys_spirit »

One thing about the BadMo's and barrels in general that you don't get with sticks in glass is the angels share that evaporates out through the wood - This behavior evaporates either more alcohol or more water depending on the humidity and temp but at the same time it concentrates the flavors of the spirit in the barrel in addition to the oaking and aging... Some people will leave their jugs with a pinhole to outside air or something similar to also approximate this effect. I use various oak fingers in glass jugs regularly but also have some barrel's and getting ready to order some BadMo's to have options.

Cheers!
-j
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
————
GluGlu
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Re: My first ... year

Post by GluGlu »

jonnys_spirit wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:53 am One thing about the BadMo's and barrels in general that you don't get with sticks in glass is the angels share that evaporates out through the wood - This behavior evaporates either more alcohol or more water depending on the humidity and temp but at the same time it concentrates the flavors of the spirit in the barrel in addition to the oaking and aging... Some people will leave their jugs with a pinhole to outside air or something similar to also approximate this effect. I use various oak fingers in glass jugs regularly but also have some barrel's and getting ready to order some BadMo's to have options.

Cheers!
-j
I am airing once a week to mimic the same effect, not sure if its enough.
Since you have both fingers in glass and BadMo`s, is there any noticeable difference? I mean one difference that can make up for all the additional work?
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jonnys_spirit
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Re: My first ... year

Post by jonnys_spirit »

I just got a five gallon Gibbs barrel and am ordering some BadMo's so I'll find out but expect Barrels and BadMo's left alone for 1+ yrs to be preferred.. Give me a couple years :)

Cheers!
-j
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
————
The Baker
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Re: My first ... year

Post by The Baker »

GluGlu said, 'The first question that comes to mind is, why steaming?'

I am not just cutting the staves into 'sticks' to put in glass containers of spirit.
Though I will have lots of leftover bits I can do that with.
I want flat or fairly flat pieces to fit over the open end of one (or maybe two) (laid down) coffee jars.
With maybe a routed groove for the (smooth) tops to sit into.
With a piece of scrap wood on the other end for a support and to allow tightening with threaded rod.

Wikipedia says Steam bending is a woodworking technique where wood is exposed to steam to make it pliable. Heat and moisture from steam can soften wood fibres enough so they can be bent and stretched, and when cooled down they will hold their new shape.

So after the steam the pieces of the staves are screwed up tight between planks in a vice.
To flatten them as much as possible; to remove the end-to-end curve and the side-to-side curve of the barrel shape.
BTW there are a lot of cracks in this old wood so probably many pieces will leak.
Hopefully many will take up when filled. Beeswax on any visible end grain may help.

Geoff
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squigglefunk
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Re: My first ... year

Post by squigglefunk »

do you guys aging in these stainless steel "barrels" ever notice any metallic taste? I know I can't stand stainless steel flasks for that reason.
GluGlu
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Re: My first ... year

Post by GluGlu »

The Baker wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:32 pm GluGlu said, 'The first question that comes to mind is, why steaming?'

I am not just cutting the staves into 'sticks' to put in glass containers of spirit.
Though I will have lots of leftover bits I can do that with.
I want flat or fairly flat pieces to fit over the open end of one (or maybe two) (laid down) coffee jars.
With maybe a routed groove for the (smooth) tops to sit into.
With a piece of scrap wood on the other end for a support and to allow tightening with threaded rod.

Wikipedia says Steam bending is a woodworking technique where wood is exposed to steam to make it pliable. Heat and moisture from steam can soften wood fibres enough so they can be bent and stretched, and when cooled down they will hold their new shape.

So after the steam the pieces of the staves are screwed up tight between planks in a vice.
To flatten them as much as possible; to remove the end-to-end curve and the side-to-side curve of the barrel shape.
BTW there are a lot of cracks in this old wood so probably many pieces will leak.
Hopefully many will take up when filled. Beeswax on any visible end grain may help.

Geoff
Yeah ok, but is there any proof that all this amount of work is better for the distillates, rather than just toasting + charring and aging them in glass containers?
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Re: My first ... year

Post by GluGlu »

squigglefunk wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:38 am do you guys aging in these stainless steel "barrels" ever notice any metallic taste? I know I can't stand stainless steel flasks for that reason.
I am not storing any distillate in stainless. But again, there are many types of stainless, and the manufacturing process for stainless are so different that it does not worth the risk. Glass + Oak seem the most eco recipe..
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Re: My first ... year

Post by squigglefunk »

GluGlu wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:01 pm Yeah ok, but is there any proof that all this amount of work is better for the distillates, rather than just toasting + charring and aging them in glass containers?
some people think that letting the booze breathe through the wood is another part of the magic

hence why I believe he is trying to flatten out the staves and use them as a cap on the jar and laying them sideways? The booze will lay against the wood, and the wood is in contact with the air and I guess this is thought to help facilitate the "aging"
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Re: My first ... year

Post by squigglefunk »

GluGlu wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:03 pm I am not storing any distillate in stainless. But again, there are many types of stainless, and the manufacturing process for stainless are so different that it does not worth the risk. Glass + Oak seem the most eco recipe..
sorry that was for the "badmo" guys... this is a type of aging vessel that utilizes a stainless steel can of some sort with an oak cap.
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Re: My first ... year

Post by jonnys_spirit »

38DA0CD3-6FAB-4D2A-BC60-D0EDDB13915E.jpeg
My little SS flask seems to be fine for short term but it’s really too small for being that useful lol. Not sure what kind of SS it is but it’s stamped SS on the bottom. Good for bringing a nip out for a small tester or maybe even a hike in the woods but I’d need two of em (for diversity not volume - ahem… lol)….

I’ve got some bain marie canisters from restaurant depot like the BadMo’s and it’s def different material.

Barrels and similar do more than just “oak” that’s for sure. I see it with my wine barrels too. If they didn’t then multiple macro-industries wouldn’t use em for aging wine and likker. Simple fax (as my kid puts it)..

It’s easy for me to fool myself too but take a nice $100’ish bottle of likker or three and compare your own side by side and be honest with yourself.

$40-60 commodity fifth no real prob to beat so…

Not sayin that yours or mine ain’t “special” - it definitely is - and very exclusive which does matter -

It’s all on a spectrum anyway…

Cheers!
-jonny
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
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GluGlu
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Re: My first ... year

Post by GluGlu »

jonnys_spirit wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:06 am I just got a five gallon Gibbs barrel and am ordering some BadMo's so I'll find out but expect Barrels and BadMo's left alone for 1+ yrs to be preferred.. Give me a couple years :)

Cheers!
-j
Lols, keep me updated, I`ll stick around! 8)

jonnys_spirit wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:47 pm
My little SS flask seems to be fine for short term but it’s really too small for being that useful lol. Not sure what kind of SS it is but it’s stamped SS on the bottom. Good for bringing a nip out for a small tester or maybe even a hike in the woods but I’d need two of em (for diversity not volume - ahem… lol)….

I’ve got some bain marie canisters from restaurant depot like the BadMo’s and it’s def different material.

Barrels and similar do more than just “oak” that’s for sure. I see it with my wine barrels too. If they didn’t then multiple macro-industries wouldn’t use em for aging wine and likker. Simple fax (as my kid puts it)..

It’s easy for me to fool myself too but take a nice $100’ish bottle of likker or three and compare your own side by side and be honest with yourself.

$40-60 commodity fifth no real prob to beat so…

Not sayin that yours or mine ain’t “special” - it definitely is - and very exclusive which does matter -

It’s all on a spectrum anyway…

Cheers!
-jonny
I am not sure if buying a $300 brandy bottle assures inside is the real thing. The taste can be better, but they are adding colorants, they are using patented aging techniques, and I am pretty much sure its not all about simple oak aging, they`re doing a lot of nasty stuff to their distillates due to competition and profit margins.
I prefer mine anytime, at least I know its 100% made of organic fruit and grapes and without any shortcuts.
TBH, I keep some store bought brandy bottles, but they`re for gits only.
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Re: My first ... year

Post by NormandieStill »

For his 70th birthday I bought my dad a bottle of Armagnac from the year of his birth. (I'd love to have done the same for his 80th, but the extra 10 years more-or-less tripled the price!) I don't think it had been on oak for the entire duration, but certainly for a good long while. The condition was that he drank it, not treasure it.

It was rich, fruity (plummy), had a very full mouthfeel and almost no burn whatsoever. It was one of the nicest drops of spirits to ever pass my lips.

Not to say that every $300 bottle is going to be amazing, but with some careful selection you could be in for a treat. I do think that there could be a dead zone between "cheap'n'nasty" and "nectar of the ancient gods". There's definitely a price point where the distilleries put out an older product for more money without there necessarily being any good reason for it other than "we just found this barrel in a corner and need to get shot of it".
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Re: My first ... year

Post by GluGlu »

NormandieStill wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:02 am For his 70th birthday I bought my dad a bottle of Armagnac from the year of his birth. (I'd love to have done the same for his 80th, but the extra 10 years more-or-less tripled the price!) I don't think it had been on oak for the entire duration, but certainly for a good long while. The condition was that he drank it, not treasure it.

It was rich, fruity (plummy), had a very full mouthfeel and almost no burn whatsoever. It was one of the nicest drops of spirits to ever pass my lips.

Not to say that every $300 bottle is going to be amazing, but with some careful selection you could be in for a treat. I do think that there could be a dead zone between "cheap'n'nasty" and "nectar of the ancient gods". There's definitely a price point where the distilleries put out an older product for more money without there necessarily being any good reason for it other than "we just found this barrel in a corner and need to get shot of it".
Normally all brandies that are labeled Aged X years, should really be aged that amount of years, and of course made 100% from fermented and distilled quality fruit or grapes.
But sadly, as we know with wine and beer industries (and not only), they are not forced to declare all ingredients and methods used, and I am sure that is the case with brandies and mostly with anything else commercially sold. I truly hope there are also honest producers, but good luck to us finding which ones are the good ones lol...
Recently in Romania (and not only), there were found dangerous quantities of lead and other heavy metals in what were supposed to be sold as organic supplements...
Too bad I didn`t know I love brandy when I was a teenager, otherwise I would`ve had some decently aged brandy now :lol:
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Re: My first ... year

Post by dragon9874 »

that is an absolutely amazing setup w/ an even MORE amazing view! and all those jars infusing, WOW... my mouth is watering!! sheer perfection......

PROST!!
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GluGlu
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Re: My first ... year

Post by GluGlu »

dragon9874 wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 1:29 pm that is an absolutely amazing setup w/ an even MORE amazing view! and all those jars infusing, WOW... my mouth is watering!! sheer perfection......

PROST!!
web
Thanks for your appreciation, means a lot!
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Re: My first ... year

Post by bilge »

Awesome still and awesome jars on the shelf. Best wishes
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Re: My first ... year

Post by NorthWoodsAb »

Wow I love that still, a thing of real beauty.
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Re: My first ... year

Post by cob »

I am sorry I missed this thread when it was first posted.

I wish I could express how refreshing it is to have someone

come through the front door carrying a book as opposed to

those who show up beating on the front door with their

tin cup. Nice set up you appear well prepared.
be water my friend
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