First Bourbon Wash -- Fermenting!

Many like to post about a first successful ferment (or first all grain mash), or first still built/bought or first good run of the still. Tell us about all of these great times here.
Pics are VERY welcome, we drool over pretty copper 8)

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OnTheWay
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First Bourbon Wash -- Fermenting!

Post by OnTheWay »

Just wanted to contribute a bit and say that my first bourbon wash is fermenting right now -- so far so good!

Recipe (13 gallons):
  • 21 lbs -- organic cracked corn (from local farmer)
  • 5.25 lbs -- 2-Row Brewers Malt
  • 8.75 lbs -- Rye Malt
I've been brewing beer for a long time so I am approaching this from that angle as I feel comfortable there, so my process looked like:
  1. Gelatinize corn at 168F in 8.75 gallons water -- this went on for many hours because I was nervous about it not working
  2. Mashed corn + malts at 150F for a few hours (I was thinking 2 hours initially but I had to do other things so it ended up getting stretched out to 3 or more hours) -- Added 2.5 gallons water at temp needed to get to 150F after adding the malts -- also added some lactic acid to get mash to 5.2 pH at beginning of mash
  3. Ran off the mash into a pot giving me 7.5 gallons
  4. Added 5.25 gallons to the mash then stirred and ran that off into the same pot
  5. Total yield in pot: 13.5 gallons
  6. Chilled with copper immersion chiller
  7. SG measured at 1.057 -- I was aiming for 1.065 so I added table sugar to get there (actually overshot to 1.068)
  8. Added 48 mL of lactic acid to get the pH to 4.5
  9. Added Safale05
  10. 1 day later quite active fermentation. Keeping it in an area where the temp ranges from 63 to 70
I was contemplating boiling this too just to get the sg and pH closer to the right range (and do more of what I'm used to) but I added the lactic and sugar instead. Any reason why that would have been a bad idea?

If anyone sees anything concerning, please let me know. I'm looking forward to these finishing out!
Equipment:
Brewing: Propane. 20g pots for infusion mashing.
Fermenting: 6g carboys or 18g conical. Penguin glycol chiller.
Distilling: Propane. Mile Hi 3" diameter stainless torpedo pro tower. 15g keg. Penguin glycol chiller.
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bitter
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Re: First Bourbon Wash -- Fermenting!

Post by bitter »

Corn takes longer at lower temps.. For corn I like to start with boiling water. High Temp Alpha is a big help in breaking it down also. PH temp and time all very important. It helps increase yields also as the high temp alpha chews up the starch to make more available to the enzymes from the malted grains.

Good luck sounds like will be tasty.

B
OnTheWay
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Re: First Bourbon Wash -- Fermenting!

Post by OnTheWay »

I guess I'm not sure why I started lower with the corn. I will go higher next time and save myself some time. Thanks for the input!
Equipment:
Brewing: Propane. 20g pots for infusion mashing.
Fermenting: 6g carboys or 18g conical. Penguin glycol chiller.
Distilling: Propane. Mile Hi 3" diameter stainless torpedo pro tower. 15g keg. Penguin glycol chiller.
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Twisted Brick
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Re: First Bourbon Wash -- Fermenting!

Post by Twisted Brick »

Congrats on your first bourbon mash, OnTheWay. That looks to make a fine drop.

At 2.7lbs per gallon, it appears you can squeeze some more efficiency out of your mash regime . It is common achieve 1.065-1.068 from 2ppg. Milling your corn to a meal and doughing-in at closer to 200-210F will help this a bunch. If you save some backset from your strip for a subsequent mash, you can chill it (along with water) to help drop your mash to 150F just prior to malt additions. Saves time and lowers pH a tad. An alpha amylase added at 185-190F will thin your corn to a manageable level.

Excellent control, including chilling, BTW.
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OnTheWay
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Re: First Bourbon Wash -- Fermenting!

Post by OnTheWay »

Great info, Twisted Brick! Thank you for the feedback! I will definitely be implementing these things.
Equipment:
Brewing: Propane. 20g pots for infusion mashing.
Fermenting: 6g carboys or 18g conical. Penguin glycol chiller.
Distilling: Propane. Mile Hi 3" diameter stainless torpedo pro tower. 15g keg. Penguin glycol chiller.
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subbrew
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Re: First Bourbon Wash -- Fermenting!

Post by subbrew »

Sounds like you are lautering. If you grind the corn to a course flower you will need to add some rice hulls to avoid a stuck sparge. Not as easy as just barley.
Or you could just ferment on the grain. (a totally new concept to brewers, but I took the plunge) Still a pain to squeeze the grain after fermentation to get all the liquid out. You might be able to add rice hulls after fermentation and still lauter but I have not tried that. Most people do the mop bucket or fruit press squeeze.
OnTheWay
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Re: First Bourbon Wash -- Fermenting!

Post by OnTheWay »

Yep, I am lautering. I was wondering about the stuck sparge, too, but I was thinking that stirring while lautering to release the liquid can't be that bad since the alternative is actually fermenting on-grain and squeezing after (something again I'd never do if brewing beer). Maybe there's a reason to not stir while lautering, but it seems like apples to apples to me.

I may just increase the infusion temp to near boiling and add some amylase to start then see what kind of increase in efficiency that gives me. After that I'll explore grinding more finely if I'm not happy with the bump.

I very much appreciate all the input!
Equipment:
Brewing: Propane. 20g pots for infusion mashing.
Fermenting: 6g carboys or 18g conical. Penguin glycol chiller.
Distilling: Propane. Mile Hi 3" diameter stainless torpedo pro tower. 15g keg. Penguin glycol chiller.
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subbrew
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Re: First Bourbon Wash -- Fermenting!

Post by subbrew »

I suspect you will see a bump but still much lower than theoretical. Cracked corn has too many parts that are close to half a kernel. Even if the starch inside gels the "hull" of the kernel keeps the enzymes from getting in and the sugars from getting out. That is where the finer grind exposes all that starch so the enzymes can get to it and the sugar can be washed away.

As for stirring while lautering that should work well if you have a false bottom. My mash tun is a 10 gal drink cooler with the braided stainless steel hose covering as the screen. The fine voids in it that allow the liquid to pass, plug tight if using oats and no stirring will help. I assume ground corn would do the same thing from the consistency I have seen.
OnTheWay
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Re: First Bourbon Wash -- Fermenting!

Post by OnTheWay »

That all makes good sense. Yeah, some of the cracked corn I got is full kernels so there's no starch making it out of there.

I do have a false bottom, luckily, so stirring might be the way to go if I want to keep the rice hulls out of the equation. Not sure how hard I want to try to do that, but at least it seems there are options.
Equipment:
Brewing: Propane. 20g pots for infusion mashing.
Fermenting: 6g carboys or 18g conical. Penguin glycol chiller.
Distilling: Propane. Mile Hi 3" diameter stainless torpedo pro tower. 15g keg. Penguin glycol chiller.
OnTheWay
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Re: First Bourbon Wash -- Fermenting!

Post by OnTheWay »

Update: Fermentation completed!

Measured at 1.000 to give me 9.2% (from 1.068). Threw these in a fridge now to clarify.

I have a lager right now that is using my glycol chiller, but after that is done I'll be doing a stripping run on it using the glycol through the condenser which worked great on my sacrificial run.

The fermented mash actually tasted quite good (albeit boozey) and it has me wondering a little bit about what parts of this (recipe/process) I could bring over into the beer-making side of things to stretch the limits there. All very exciting!
Equipment:
Brewing: Propane. 20g pots for infusion mashing.
Fermenting: 6g carboys or 18g conical. Penguin glycol chiller.
Distilling: Propane. Mile Hi 3" diameter stainless torpedo pro tower. 15g keg. Penguin glycol chiller.
JB_12
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Re: First Bourbon Wash -- Fermenting!

Post by JB_12 »

OnTheWay wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:56 am Update: Fermentation completed!

Measured at 1.000 to give me 9.2% (from 1.068). Threw these in a fridge now to clarify.

I have a lager right now that is using my glycol chiller, but after that is done I'll be doing a stripping run on it using the glycol through the condenser which worked great on my sacrificial run.

The fermented mash actually tasted quite good (albeit boozey) and it has me wondering a little bit about what parts of this (recipe/process) I could bring over into the beer-making side of things to stretch the limits there. All very exciting!
I’d be interested to see your progress on working with corn. I am trying to figure a way to get good yield without having to squeeze a ton of corn by hand or invest in expensive equipment.

I’m a brewer as well with about 12 years of experience at home and some commercial. 21 gallon Stout brewing system and 23 gallon conical in an upright freezer with inkbird controller. Im looking to do cornmeal and ferment on the cornmeal my next go round and use either cold crashing to separate out mash from liquid or use a big BIAB setup. Haven’t decided yet. Flaked corn has been a giant pain to work with. Anyways, will be interested to see how you tackle this from a brewing background perspective.
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subbrew
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Re: First Bourbon Wash -- Fermenting!

Post by subbrew »

Just for some reference numbers I do 35 gallon ferments. By that I mean 35 gallons of water with 85# or so of grain, so actual volume in the pickle barrel is more than 35 gal. After fermentation I siphon the clear off. I put my siphon end in a jar, put a BIAB bag around it and sink it into the grain at the bottom so I get a bit more than just the liquid that was over the grain. that will give about 25 gallons. Squeezing the grain gets 5 to 7 more gallons. But after it settles and I siphon off the clear I get about 4.5 to 5 gallons going to the boiler. You are right, squeezing grains is a pain. You need to make the call is that extra 20% or so of boiler charge with it.

I have thought of just suspending a BIAB in a bucket and putting the grain in and let it drip. If I get even half of what squeezing does, now I am only loosing 10% with a lot less work.
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Re: First Bourbon Wash -- Fermenting!

Post by JB_12 »

Subbrew, that is an excellent idea! Thank you.
OnTheWay
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Re: First Bourbon Wash -- Fermenting!

Post by OnTheWay »

Hey, sorry, JB! I hadn't been on here in a bit.

So far for in regard to using the cracked corn I haven't yet done another mash but am contemplating doing one in the next couple weeks. I am likely going to hit the corn with boiling water this time to start the mash to hopefully speed things up and increase efficiency. At my volume I think I will add corn as opposed to making the crush finer as I am not sure how much time I want to put into crushing it with a corona mill. I feel like that will take a bit, but I don't have experience with it so I am unsure.

I am also thinking of fermenting on the grain as well as distilling on-grain for my next go as I think my large boil pot will fit my keg still inside it to function as a double-boiler. Lots of things to try!

Regarding this run, I have .5 gallons of 62% bourbon aging on 4 1" charred white oak cubes. It sure is getting pretty!
Equipment:
Brewing: Propane. 20g pots for infusion mashing.
Fermenting: 6g carboys or 18g conical. Penguin glycol chiller.
Distilling: Propane. Mile Hi 3" diameter stainless torpedo pro tower. 15g keg. Penguin glycol chiller.
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subbrew
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Re: First Bourbon Wash -- Fermenting!

Post by subbrew »

If you go the double boiler route you will want to use oil instead of water. Depending on your elevation 212 to 200 degree water does not give a lot of delta to drive heat transfer and you will find your distilling taking forever.
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Re: First Bourbon Wash -- Fermenting!

Post by hawkwing »

Congratulations on your first bourbon!

You could just boil the corn for 45-60 minutes to gelatinize. Add a little malt barley or enzymes to thin it. The high temps will destroy them but they will loosen it if you start at a lower temperature. Also some are assuming you have high temp enzymes judging by the temperature they recommend adding them. I have lower temp as it’s what I can get locally and they seem to work well but I have to drop the temperature first so check your product.

It’s more of a personal choice but I would have fermented it at a lower SG rather than add sugar and keep it all grain.
OnTheWay
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Re: First Bourbon Wash -- Fermenting!

Post by OnTheWay »

subbrew wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:59 am If you go the double boiler route you will want to use oil instead of water. Depending on your elevation 212 to 200 degree water does not give a lot of delta to drive heat transfer and you will find your distilling taking forever.
Thanks, Subbrew! As I was reading more and more this is what I was finding as well. I am a little leery about using oil as it seems like a potential mess and waste. My reasoning for wanting to ferment and distill on-grain is twofold:
  • Save having to sparge/squeeze the grain
  • Wanting to use my column to distill while preserving as much flavor as possible
Somehow I've gotten it into my head that distilling bourbon on-grain with a reflux column could be a good way to avoid needing to do a stripping run while jamming as much flavor as possible into a column-distilled product. I may be off on this. I have looked a bit for comparisons between using a column or pot still for bourbon and have had some trouble tracking a whole lot of substance down ... maybe because reflux isn't used much for bourbon at a small level? I know some of the big boys do it, so I am wondering their reasoning. Maybe just efficiency in producing product?
Equipment:
Brewing: Propane. 20g pots for infusion mashing.
Fermenting: 6g carboys or 18g conical. Penguin glycol chiller.
Distilling: Propane. Mile Hi 3" diameter stainless torpedo pro tower. 15g keg. Penguin glycol chiller.
OnTheWay
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Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2022 7:51 am

Re: First Bourbon Wash -- Fermenting!

Post by OnTheWay »

hawkwing wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:43 pm Congratulations on your first bourbon!

You could just boil the corn for 45-60 minutes to gelatinize. Add a little malt barley or enzymes to thin it. The high temps will destroy them but they will loosen it if you start at a lower temperature. Also some are assuming you have high temp enzymes judging by the temperature they recommend adding them. I have lower temp as it’s what I can get locally and they seem to work well but I have to drop the temperature first so check your product.

It’s more of a personal choice but I would have fermented it at a lower SG rather than add sugar and keep it all grain.
I appreciate the input, hawking! I only used the enzymes in the 2-row so far, so all I have on-hand is low-temp, which I am fine with adding low then increasing to boiling.

I assume adding sugar just means less flavor (and maybe that it's not technically bourbon)? I am looking to tweak my recipe going forward to hit my SG without having to add anything on the next run since now I know a little more of what to expect.
Equipment:
Brewing: Propane. 20g pots for infusion mashing.
Fermenting: 6g carboys or 18g conical. Penguin glycol chiller.
Distilling: Propane. Mile Hi 3" diameter stainless torpedo pro tower. 15g keg. Penguin glycol chiller.
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Re: First Bourbon Wash -- Fermenting!

Post by Bushman »

A lot depends on the type of reflux and how you run it.
hawkwing
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Re: First Bourbon Wash -- Fermenting!

Post by hawkwing »

OnTheWay wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 5:50 am
hawkwing wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:43 pm Congratulations on your first bourbon!

You could just boil the corn for 45-60 minutes to gelatinize. Add a little malt barley or enzymes to thin it. The high temps will destroy them but they will loosen it if you start at a lower temperature. Also some are assuming you have high temp enzymes judging by the temperature they recommend adding them. I have lower temp as it’s what I can get locally and they seem to work well but I have to drop the temperature first so check your product.

It’s more of a personal choice but I would have fermented it at a lower SG rather than add sugar and keep it all grain.
I appreciate the input, hawking! I only used the enzymes in the 2-row so far, so all I have on-hand is low-temp, which I am fine with adding low then increasing to boiling.

I assume adding sugar just means less flavor (and maybe that it's not technically bourbon)? I am looking to tweak my recipe going forward to hit my SG without having to add anything on the next run since now I know a little more of what to expect.
Only boil the corn and add the malt after the temperature comes down into range. You could add enzymes at this time too. I’ve added both Alfa and gluco enzymes.

I don’t have any experience with adding sugar to grain based fermentations. I imagine it will thin the flavor or add flavors. It certainly can with wine.

It’s not a big deal if you SG is a little low. You will just get a little less end product and just have to make more. You could also add more grain or try fermenting on the grain. That way it has a long time to convert.
OnTheWay
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Re: First Bourbon Wash -- Fermenting!

Post by OnTheWay »

Cool! Thanks all for the help! Hoping I can get to the point where I can contribute in a meaningful way at some point as you have for me.

Just a pretty picture of the progress:
2022-07-06 11-12-12.jpg
Equipment:
Brewing: Propane. 20g pots for infusion mashing.
Fermenting: 6g carboys or 18g conical. Penguin glycol chiller.
Distilling: Propane. Mile Hi 3" diameter stainless torpedo pro tower. 15g keg. Penguin glycol chiller.
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