Is this all Yeast at the bottom?

[rilewedge]

My First two batches scorched.
First one, I had the wrong heating element. (standard element)
Second one UHWD 3500W element used but still scorched. (Shaking head)
This will be my third run. All have been 12Lbs of LME and two bottles of Corn Syrup. Measured SG 1.090 approximately.
The first two I waited a few days after the bubbling stopped to let the wash settle out.
A solid 1/4 inch of Solids settled out, and I thought I was good to go. Racked it into the still and scorched them both.
Both looked like the left-hand picture.



This time I waited longer, and it never really settled out.
I racked it twice, each time with 1/4 of solids settled out, but the wash was not noticeably clearer.
So I ordered some Kieselsol and Chitosan, what a difference! Right-hand photo.
My question is what are all the light brown solids?
Yeast? It's an inch thick on this one and adding in the two rackings that's 1.5 in of solids.

[jonnys_spirit]

They like to eat and they’re slightly promiscuous thank the ethanol gods!

[Salt Must Flow]

Your beasties must REALLY love your recipe. Like being fruitful and multiplying not being fruity and ... anyways. That's strange because I have fermented many sugar washes in my boiler, stripped in that same boiler with a 5500W ULWD element at 100% power and never scorched once.

[rilewedge]

That's strange because I have fermented many sugar washes in my boiler, stripped in that same boiler with a 5500W ULWD element at 100% power and never scorched once.

Perhaps I'm wrong on the cause of the scorching, then.
The standard heating element cam out of the still looking like it had been powder coated black. So that one I think was the cause or part of it.
The New ULWD element looks fine.

Could it be puking into the column and burning on the column walls? I wiped my finger inside the 2" copper column, and it came out covered in a black sootie looking substance. I have cleaned the column with 551 mixture, but I have no vision into it while running. There is no soot in the SS boiler, same or higher temperature I would guess.

Should I put some sunflower oil into the boiler with the mash to keep it from foaming?
I think there is a good bit of unconverted sugar from the LME in the wash.
The final gravity is 1.014 giving approximately 10% ABV.
13 gallon still but only running 5 gallons of mash so lots of headroom.

[tombombadil]

How do you know it's scorched? Smells and tastes burnt?

[EricTheRed]

Some alpha and gluco enzymes should get it down to .990
Then there will be no sugars to scorch

[Sporacle]

Place some of it that has been racked in a pot on the stove and give it a boil, see what happens if any of it scorches to the bottom of the pot.

[rilewedge]

Place some of it that has been racked in a pot on the stove and give it a boil, see what happens if any of it scorches to the bottom of the pot.

Great idea! I’ll give that a try.

[hellbilly007]

With such a high finishing gravity I'd say you're probably scorching some of the unfermentable sugars. As mentioned, some added enzymes should get you into a lower finishing gravity thus leaving less to be scorched.

[still_stirrin]

With such a high finishing gravity I'd say you're probably scorching some of the unfermentable sugars. As mentioned, some added enzymes should get you into a lower finishing gravity thus leaving less to be scorched.

Enzymes + TIME.

Enzymes in a ferment will continue to reduce non-fermentables. But it will take longer. Don’t expect a 3-day ferment when you’re trying to convert “baked in” non-fermentable sugars from a malt extract. Always keep in mind, the process of sugar reduction is asymptotical, meaning the rate of conversion reduces as the amount of non-fermentables is reduced.

Patience. Wait for it. And it might take 2 or 3 weeks (or more) to fully attenuate.
ss

[Tummydoc]

What was your finished specific gravity? You clearly had sugars in the boiler if it scorched.. either unfermentable or just not yet fermented if you ran too soon. Also what power were you running? You can't get the scorched flavor out by rerunning, better to discard and start over after a good cleaning of the boiler and element. I found running the element in water and pbw for a few hours cleans most of the scorch off.

[StillerBoy]

A solid 1/4 inch of Solids settled out, and I thought I was good to go. Racked it into the still and scorched them both.

This time I waited longer, and it never really settled out.
I racked it twice, each time with 1/4 of solids settled out, but the wash was not noticeably clearer.
So I ordered some Kieselsol and Chitosan, what a difference! Right-hand photo.

Issues with scorching come from not clearing it properly, a Ph issue, and a degassing issue..
A wash/mash not wanting to clear after it's finished fermenting is due in large part to inproper fermentation temp during the process, as the temp needs to be stable..
If the Ph of the wash/mash is to high, meaning a Ph above 4.5, it will increase the time required to clear..
And a failure to degas the wash/mash to remove the CO2 will retard the clearing process, as the CO2 will hold the fine particles in the solution..

Using bentonite clay at the begin of the process, greatly assist clearing.. degassing once the SG has crossed the 1.000, waiting a day or so, then racking into another fermenter, and another degassing will provide the clearing necessary, without the need to use clearing agents..

Improvement in the process is where it all starts..

Mars

[Twisted Brick]

Issues with scorching come from not clearing it properly, a Ph issue, and a degassing issue..
A wash/mash not wanting to clear after it's finished fermenting is due in large part to inproper fermentation temp during the process, as the temp needs to be stable..
If the Ph of the wash/mash is to high, meaning a Ph above 4.5, it will increase the time required to clear..
And a failure to degas the wash/mash to remove the CO2 will retard the clearing process, as the CO2 will hold the fine particles in the solution..

Using bentonite clay at the begin of the process, greatly assist clearing.. degassing once the SG has crossed the 1.000, waiting a day or so, then racking into another fermenter, and another degassing will provide the clearing necessary, without the need to use clearing agents..

Improvement in the process is where it all starts..

Mars

Words of wisdom, Mars.

No amount of work will fully eliminate LME's non-fermentable dextrins, but maybe conducting a partial mash and using less LME might be in order.

[Salt Must Flow]

That's strange because I have fermented many sugar washes in my boiler, stripped in that same boiler with a 5500W ULWD element at 100% power and never scorched once.

Could it be puking into the column and burning on the column walls? I wiped my finger inside the 2" copper column, and it came out covered in a black sootie looking substance. I have cleaned the column with 551 mixture, but I have no vision into it while running. There is no soot in the SS boiler, same or higher temperature I would guess.

Since your column is copper, I believe this is normal. I put rolls of copper mesh at the base of my stainless steel column and the mesh does turn very dark, nearly blackish after a run. I don't get any soon on the stainless itself so I think it's just the copper doing its job.

Even if it did puke, you don't get high enough temp in the column to cause scorching. Scorching occurs directly on the surface of the heating element.

[StillerBoy]

Tip on using LME's, molasses, and panela.. dilute first, 4 -1 with water at 150*F, then let sit overnight, then rack it.. this allow much of the un-formentable to settle down, greatly assisting in the clearing stage..

And I would cut back on the corn syrup used so as to get a 1.075 range SG, as this will create an environment much more favorable to the yeast, and allow it to finish lower in SG..

Mars

[StillerBoy]

That's strange because I have fermented many sugar washes in my boiler, stripped in that same boiler with a 5500W ULWD element at 100% power and never scorched once.

SMF.. he's doing a sugar wash, but it's composition is different to that of a regular sugar wash.. what he's doing is similar to a rum process, which will behavior differently throughout the process of fementing, clearing, and stripping.. the un-fermentable sugar will create problems if not understood when using them..

Mars

[Saltbush Bill]

Tip on using LME's, molasses, and panela.. dilute first, 4 -1 with water at 150*F, then let sit overnight, then rack it.. this allow much of the un-formentable to settle down, greatly assisting in the clearing stage..

Completely unnecessary when using mollases............just complicating things for no good reason.

[Twisted Brick]

That's strange because I have fermented many sugar washes in my boiler, stripped in that same boiler with a 5500W ULWD element at 100% power and never scorched once.

So... what percentage of that sugar would you say is un-fermentable and might cause a scorch like LME is known to do?

[StillerBoy]

Completely unnecessary when using mollases............just complicating things for no good reason.

It's very possible, that over many yrs of doing the same rum recipe, that you've come to understand what it is you need to do, and develop a process which gives you the result that are constant..

Unfortunately, new comers to the hobby haven't develop that understand yet, and experience the issues that the OP is experiencing.. so your statement maybe more confusing that helpful..

Mars

[StillerBoy]

So... what percentage of that sugar would you say is un-fermentable and might cause a scorch like LME is known to do?

TB.. I'm assuming that the quote was directed to me..

I do recall, and that's a good numbers of yrs ago, I did a few batches using LME's and had issues with stripping, foaming badly, and coating the element, but not scorching it, maybe because I was mindful of the possiblity..

As to what amount, I could not same at this time, but what I do know is that there was lots of sediment that didn't dissolve that settle to the bottom.. similarly with panela sugars, and some blackstrap molasses..

My rum's now are all panela and fancy molasses, and done as described in the previous post, as not all panela have the same amount of sediments, but there is sediment, so I don't add them.. and I have no issues with clearing or stripping, and I've come to think that the flavor is better also, at least that what I'm told also..

Should one do the process or not, that for the individual to experiment with, and select the process best for him..

Mars

[rilewedge]

I had the LME on hand for a beer that I never brewed.
Because I had heard that there were unfermentable sugars in LME, I added 1/2 TSP of Glucoamylase Enzyme to the wash.
I have a Fish tank heater in the wash, keeping it at a constant 85 F.
Also, it was fermenting for 10 days before I racked and degassed it the first time.
Next I waited 10 more days before racking a second time and degassing once again.
My beer brewing software calculated a final gravity for this at 1.017, and it hit 1.014 not great but better.
This next run will be my Last LME run unless I screw up the next one even worse

I'm going to switch over to all grain. Hopefully the same process I used for beer will work, minus the hops.
Not only that, but I had better luck brewing beers with all grains, better flavors.

So from what I was reading above, my heating element could be covered in scorched sugar that falls off and pollutes the output.
Guess I'll run some water through it prior to my next product run.