First Try at Rum

Many like to post about a first successful ferment (or first all grain mash), or first still built/bought or first good run of the still. Tell us about all of these great times here.
Pics are VERY welcome, we drool over pretty copper 8)

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Kruegerfan
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First Try at Rum

Post by Kruegerfan »

Hi All,

I'm fairly new to the forum, and until now I have only really done sugar washes and added flavour essences to the distillate after proofing down.

I'm nowhere near confident enough to try an all grain yet despite copious amounts of research and youtube watching, plus I only really have basic equipment.

Thanks to TrappedInOz, I have just tried my first rum wash. Only did a small 4 gallon batch to try it.

2lbs of black treacle (hard to get molasses here) and 4.4 lbs of Demerara sugar.

Used a Gervin universal wine yeast. Fermented dry in about 6 days. Used my small 4l still. 3 stripping runs with fores removed to collect low wines and then a nice slow spirit run.

Chucked 250ml of heads and collected around 1.4 l at about 70%. Took a little tails as the treacle flavour was great for a little bit, then stopped when it started tasting shitty.

Proofed down to 1.8l at 55% and now ageing on American oak whiskey barrel chips that I heavily toasted in the oven. Been 4 days now and starting to taste rather pleasant already with no flavour essences in sight. LOL

Thanks TrappedInOz
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Trapped-in-Oz
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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Trapped-in-Oz »

could increase the black treacle and decrease the demerara, what’s the cost difference(?), try an all treacle.
chips are rather so so and too fast, look for staves or dominoes, can oak at 60%

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Kruegerfan
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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Kruegerfan »

Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:57 am could increase the black treacle and decrease the demerara, what’s the cost difference(?), try an all treacle.
chips are rather so so and too fast, look for staves or dominoes, can oak at 60%

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Thanks bud. The treacle is a little pricier than the sugar but not much, and the gravity points are almost the same. Do you think the flavour would be better cutting out the sugar?

Definitely the best thing I've produced out of the little air still, and no need for flavour essences either. I already had the chips laying around but cot some dominoes and staves saved in my Ebay watchlist, so will be ordering some on payday next week cos I'm kinda skint :P
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Trapped-in-Oz
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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Trapped-in-Oz »

Kruegerfan wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:14 am

little air still


The little air still also works magic with LME.
For sure all treacle would max the flavour and dunder adds more flavour.
If budgeting can use some sugar and boost the flavour with dunder.

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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Kruegerfan »

Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:28 am
Kruegerfan wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:14 am

little air still


The little air still also works magic with LME.
For sure all treacle would max the flavour and dunder adds more flavour.
If budgeting can use some sugar and boost the flavour with dunder.

..
Think I might just bite the bullet and buy some of that LME with the "oddly British" :lol: pricing. Do you think 3kg should give half decent flavour in a 12-13 litre wash?
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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Trapped-in-Oz »

Kruegerfan wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:48 am

just bite the bullet


I do 9 litre washes (two full strips for one spirit) and use 3 kg of LME or 3 kg of molasses (treacle). To molasses I include some tomato paste.

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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Kruegerfan »

Nice one. Thanks again for the tips. Guess I'll be doing that next week then :D

What's your yeast of choice when doing a LME or molasses wash?
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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Trapped-in-Oz »

Kruegerfan wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 5:06 am
yeast of choice


M1 is the choice for LME. For molasses I use GR2, can’t remember why GR2 but happy with what it does.

The reason for tom paste with molasses can be found in the nutritional data which lists zero protein/amino acids for molasses/blackstrap.
But then Lyle's Black Treacle claims 1.7% protein. Can’t imagine where sugar cane gets its protein?

Sources are in agreement regarding the healthy presence of magnesium (Epsom Salts).

https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cu ... antity=1.3

https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5573/2

https://www.lylesgoldensyrup.com/our-ra ... ck-treacle

https://ashtonfarms.co.uk/products/lyle ... le-7-257kg £13.00 for 7.2 kg ! !

As your black treacle fermented without problem suggests that it is unsulphured.

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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Kruegerfan »

Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:51 pm
Kruegerfan wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 5:06 am
yeast of choice


M1 is the choice for LME. For molasses I use GR2, can’t remember why GR2 but happy with what it does.

The reason for tom paste with molasses can be found in the nutritional data which lists zero protein/amino acids for molasses/blackstrap.
But then Lyle's Black Treacle claims 1.7% protein. Can’t imagine where sugar cane gets its protein?

Sources are in agreement regarding the healthy presence of magnesium (Epsom Salts).

https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cu ... antity=1.3

https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5573/2

https://www.lylesgoldensyrup.com/our-ra ... ck-treacle

https://ashtonfarms.co.uk/products/lyle ... le-7-257kg £13.00 for 7.2 kg ! !

As your black treacle fermented without problem suggests that it is unsulphured.

You're a diamond mate. Thanks so much for the tips and the links. Yeah, I believe the treacle is unsulphured. Was looking for unsulphured molasses before I tried the treacle but couldn't find any that specified anything about sulphur. Will defo give those yeasts a try. First rum seems to be coming along nicely.

Got a 13l sugar wash on at the moment and doubled the tomato paste like you had suggested before. Will see how it turns out.
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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Trapped-in-Oz »

Kruegerfan wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:43 am
and doubled the tomato paste


The doubling of how much....

In 9 litre molasses wash I have 140 g tom paste. In 9 litre sugar wash I use 280 g tom paste.

My sugar wash gets the full voodoo with molasses 48 g ~ Vegemite 8 g ~ calcium carbonate 9 g ~ a touch of Epsom ~ runs on EC-1118 5 g ~ and 48 hours after pitching the yeast, DAP 1.2 g ~ ~ ~ and sugar is boiled for 90 mins with citric acid 10 g

Slurred through an Air Still it’s not a neutral, makes an okay vodka - sometimes with whole vanilla bean in the bottle for few days.


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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Kruegerfan »

Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:24 pm

The doubling of how much....

In 9 litre molasses wash I have 140 g tom paste. In 9 litre sugar wash I use 280 g tom paste.

My sugar wash gets the full voodoo with molasses 48 g ~ Vegemite 8 g ~ calcium carbonate 9 g ~ a touch of Epsom ~ runs on EC-1118 5 g ~ and 48 hours after pitching the yeast, DAP 1.2 g ~ ~ ~ and sugar is boiled for 90 mins with citric acid 10 g

Slurred through an Air Still it’s not a neutral, makes an okay vodka - sometimes with whole vanilla bean in the bottle for few days.


..
Wow. Your sugar wash definitely gets the works. Exactly the same with the tomato paste. Used 280g in the current sugar wash. Been on for 5 days but the tomato paste all rose to the top and made a massive thick bumpy covering on top. Removed that today. Tried it with 5g of Gervin universal wine yeast but not much was happening. Only dropped from 1.090 to 1.060 in 5 days. Normally almost finished by now, so threw in 5g of EC-1118 and it went nuts :D .

Will be ordering the LME soon and also that 7kg carton of treacle for the next all treacle rum. Can't seem to get M1 yeast here at all. All people sell here is the Fermentis lager and ale yeasts etc. due to the distilling faux pas here :cry:
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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Yummyrum »

Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:24 pm~ and sugar is boiled for 90 mins with citric acid 10 g
Guessing you are inverting sugar .
Why do you boil it for 90 min when it only needs ti reach boiling to invert .
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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Trapped-in-Oz »

Kruegerfan wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 4:03 am
tomato paste all rose to the top and made a massive thick bumpy covering on top. Removed that today.

can stir back-in rather then ‘remove’

..
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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Trapped-in-Oz »

Yummyrum wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 5:49 am
Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:24 pm~ and sugar is boiled for 90 mins with citric acid 10 g
Guessing you are inverting sugar .
Why do you boil it for 90 min when it only needs ti reach boiling to invert .

I bring to boil and then add the citric, and the difference between 5 min and 90 min is very evident in smell and taste (which I like)…. degrees of inversion.
And because I have solar panels on the roof.

The calcium carbonate is added to the hot sugar after the boil... makes for an interesting morning.

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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Kruegerfan »

Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 3:02 pm
can stir back-in rather then ‘remove’

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I'm a total dick. Just noticed that the tomato paste I use is double concentrated, so I don't need to double those weights. No wonder it made a fuckin mess :crazy:

No dodgy additives or preservatives that will hinder the yeast though, so it's all good. Ordered that LME this morning so should hopefully have that on the go by the weekend.

Just wondering. If you only have a 9 litre wash for 2 stripping runs and a spirit run, how much do you get as an end product? 2 bottles? Maybe 3?
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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Trapped-in-Oz »

Kruegerfan wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 12:06 am

I use is double concentrated

end product? 2 bottles? Maybe 3?


my tom paste claims to be ‘Triple Concentrate’ and my dick hasn’t fallen off.

don’t count the bottles……. last rum yield was 970 ml at 62% ….. (with some tails from the previous rum added to the spirit run).

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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by NZChris »

If it helps, I've made a lot of rum in the past three decades without using any tomato paste. I haven't used many of the nutrients that I've seen recommended for rum on this forum. I often use DAP, but have had successful ferments without it.

Pay attention to pH if your local water and ingredients demand it.

Look after your yeast. Choose a yeast for your local temperatures and keep the temperature stable. I use bread yeast and control the temperature to keep it happy, doing whatever it takes to make that happen. Cooling is not usually a problem for rum yeast, but I have had to loosen off insulation and point a fan at the fermenter in summer. Don't let it get cold, insulate the fermenter to keep it warm.
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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Kruegerfan »

Nice one guys.

I do count by ml, but generally I get 3 bottles out of a 12l batch once proofed down. Yours equates to 1.5l at 40% which to me is 2 bottles, so looks like we both pretty much start at the same gravity and end up with roughly the same yield once we've done the stripping runs and spirit run.

Guessing your product tastes half decent, so at least I know I'm not being greedy. LOL

I have just been using cheap nutrient from the brew section of one of our local stores, but I do think that has been giving some off flavours, so DAP, epsom salts and citric acid are on the way to me as well. Hopefully they will make a better end product than the cheap shite I've been using up til now
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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Kruegerfan »

Speak of the devil. Post has just arrived and it was my DAP and epsom salts. Happy days
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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by NZChris »

I just searched my rum files for Epsom salts and I've never used them.

I'm sure they won't do any harm unless you use stupid amounts.
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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Trapped-in-Oz »

Kruegerfan wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 1:21 am
my DAP and epsom salts. Happy days

don’t need DAP or Epsom for molasses / treacle.
use DAP only if it is really needed and use little.

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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Kruegerfan »

Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 1:44 am
don’t need DAP or Epsom for molasses / treacle.
use DAP only if it is really needed and use little.

..
Sorry. Should have clarified that I bought them for the LME and future sugar washes :)
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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Trapped-in-Oz »

Kruegerfan wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:01 am
Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 1:44 am
don’t need DAP or Epsom for molasses / treacle.
use DAP only if it is really needed and use little.

..
Sorry. Should have clarified that I bought them for the LME and future sugar washes :)

also don't need DAP for LME.

..
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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Kruegerfan »

I know LME is a post wort syrup, but always thought some of the nutrients might get lost in the process. Thanks for clearing that up. Seen a lot of people use nutrients with all grain and also LME. Guess it's overkill. Means I can save that for hopefully cleaner sugar washes.
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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Kruegerfan »

Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:04 am

also don't need DAP for LME.

..
LME just arrived today, so guess what I'm doin after work? LOL. Will let you know how it goes
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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Trapped-in-Oz »

Kruegerfan wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:01 am
LME just arrived

what about the M1…….. and copper in vapour space....... save costly LME until all ducks are aligned

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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Kruegerfan »

Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:57 am
what about the M1…….. and copper in vapour space....... save costly LME until all ducks are aligned

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Fair point, but can't get my hands on M1 over here. This is just an experiment anyway, albeit an expensive one, but gonna see how it turns out, so gonna use some high gravity yeast I had from last year

Also got a couple of copper plates on the way for the vapour space and they'll be here by the time fermentation is done
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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Kruegerfan »

Decided to hold off. Getting some good tried and tested baker's yeast tomorrow.

I'm a dick though. Can't use the copper plates. Sold my Still Spirits air still to buy parts for building my own still and now using a water distiller with SCR controller to mimic the air still's lower power, BUT, the water distiller doesn't have the same lip in the lid for the basket, so I'm gonna have to think of something else.

Was thinking about a few sheets of copper mesh that I could attach to the lid somehow, but obviously easily removable for cleaning. Thinking cap on tomorrow
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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Trapped-in-Oz »

Kruegerfan wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:23 am
Can't use the copper plates.

support copper plates on stainless steal threaded rods (tripod)

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Re: First Try at Rum

Post by Trapped-in-Oz »

off topic fun picture

Image



Malle-Schmickl (Austrians) developed their flavour basket in 1998………. which looks to me to be a regular vegetable streamer with copper pipe leg extensions.

Stainless steal threaded be adjustable and can hold multiple plates.

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