#1 was a success - With records

Many like to post about a first successful ferment (or first all grain mash), or first still built/bought or first good run of the still. Tell us about all of these great times here.
Pics are VERY welcome, we drool over pretty copper 8)

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Octopus
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#1 was a success - With records

Post by Octopus »

Hi everyone, I am new to distillation (and fermentation) but loving the new hobby and think this one is going to stick :) As per the board section I thought I might pop up my 'first' here :) For my first I was pretty stoked as it was a success right off the bat (beginners luck I suppose). I have been watching hundreds of hours of video and reading a butt ton of info learning everything I can, I am so hooked! :)

For my first I did a pseudo birdwatchers recipe using a can of whole tomatoes (smashed with a fork), lime juice for the pH end (total guess there lol), and a basic bread yeast. From a 26L wash that took 17 days to ferment out dry, I took off 90ml of fore shots and 20 x 200ml jars, and after cuts ended up taking jars 8-13 inclusive as my hearts. Not much but it was quite a hit with a couple of friend groups, I was so surprised! :) Especially because I did a little whoops which you will see in the notes below (ie. my second pitch).

Not the best booze I've tasted in the world but certainly not nasty, a little bit of an acquired taste, it had a very nice mouth feel, smooth, no astringency and below are the descriptors (in orange background) which I have to likely get a bit better at but with time I'm sure it will come.

Sorry for the uber post but someone may be interested... These are my full notes in image form for those that like delving deep.
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Happy to take any questions or comments, really looking forward to being active in the forums and getting to know some of you.


- Peace
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gurkan
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Re: #1 was a success - With records

Post by gurkan »

Hello Octopus, nice to meet you. I'm a new distiller such as you're. As a fellow newbie I'm inspired by the notes you take while fermenting and distilling, and will definitely do it for my runs and fermentations as well.

By the way, I'm curious about the "A/L secs" on the second chart? Do you measure the seconds between bubbles or something? It might be my fault to hit the language barrier by not understanding some of the abbreviations :)
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Re: #1 was a success - With records

Post by Octopus »

Hi, nice to connect gurkan. Thanks for the kind remarks, I thought it was important to record the details because when I hit some good things and doing the "same" thing, I can look back at what might have changed to make the "good" thing so I could repeat/improve things lol. Yes A/L was seconds between release of CO2 bubbles from the air lock, and the INV. (in red) was just to invert the number against a base to make the line on the graph go 'downward' representing the activity visually. I'm no expert so it was just my way to achieve it hahaha.

Below is a key to my less obvious abbreviations for your reference... Hope this helps.

A/L secs : Amount of seconds between CO2 bubble release from air lock
INV. : Inverted - To ignore, just a working part of the sheet for me
ENV. :°C - Environment temperature (in my case a hot water cupboard until I sort some sort of temp control)
MG : Measured gravity (what it reads on the hydrometer)
SG : Specific gravity (calculated through sheet with correction included)
OG : Original gravity (calculated through sheet with correction included)
Pabv% : Potential ABV (not sure if I worked this out correctly but maybe someone can shed a light on that)
CAL: The calibration the hydrometer was done at (to auto calc the correction)
HEAD °C : Temp of the collector head before hitting the condenser
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Re: #1 was a success - With records

Post by NZChris »

I did several Tomato paste washes a few year's back, Leggos worked better than some, but I've reverted to doing something closer to Shady's Sugar Shine for neutrals, like for gin base spirit, but using Vegemite.

Regardless of what type of stills I'm using, or what type of product I'm making, I ferment enough for at least two, usually three or more, stripping runs in a pot still. In hindsight, beginning by obtaining a fermenter four times the volume of my pot was the best distilling decision I ever made and has helped me produce a lot of very fine product for over thirty years.
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Re: #1 was a success - With records

Post by gurkan »

Octopus wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:27 am Hi, nice to connect gurkan. Thanks for the kind remarks, I thought it was important to record the details because when I hit some good things and doing the "same" thing, I can look back at what might have changed to make the "good" thing so I could repeat/improve things lol. Yes A/L was seconds between release of CO2 bubbles from the air lock, and the INV. (in red) was just to invert the number against a base to make the line on the graph go 'downward' representing the activity visually. I'm no expert so it was just my way to achieve it hahaha.

Below is a key to my less obvious abbreviations for your reference... Hope this helps.

A/L secs : Amount of seconds between CO2 bubble release from air lock
INV. : Inverted - To ignore, just a working part of the sheet for me
ENV. :°C - Environment temperature (in my case a hot water cupboard until I sort some sort of temp control)
MG : Measured gravity (what it reads on the hydrometer)
SG : Specific gravity (calculated through sheet with correction included)
OG : Original gravity (calculated through sheet with correction included)
Pabv% : Potential ABV (not sure if I worked this out correctly but maybe someone can shed a light on that)
CAL: The calibration the hydrometer was done at (to auto calc the correction)
HEAD °C : Temp of the collector head before hitting the condenser
Oh wow, didn't expect that, thank you!
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Re: #1 was a success - With records

Post by howie »

:) i'm curious, were you and your friends sampling low wines?
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subbrew
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Re: #1 was a success - With records

Post by subbrew »

Octopus - looks like you are doing a one and done run, running the wash once through the still, going slow and collecting the product with cuts. I assume by the numbers it is a pot still.

As NZChris hits on, you will get a better product, and a better yield if you do stripping runs first. I totally understand wanting to get some product quickly from that first ferment. But you will get a better outcome if you ferment enough for three boiler fills. Do stripping runs on the three, collecting the output as low wines and then do the spirit run. The output of the spirit run will be a higher abv and the heads and tails will concentrate more giving a wider hearts cut.

And if you just need to get a little early, you can do as I did. On the stripping runs, when I knew I was in hearts I would cut back the heat and slow way down to a steady drip on the output. I would get three jars at that rate which were pretty good hearts. Keep one or two depending on taste, put the other back in with the low wines. this gave me a little white dog to sample before I got to the spirit run as at that time I was fermenting each boiler charge separately so it was several weeks from the first stripping run until I was ready for the spirit run
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Re: #1 was a success - With records

Post by rubberduck71 »

I have never found anything tasty off 1x distillation.

I started with 4L airstill, moved up to 8 gal digiboil with kegland pot still & reflux heads, and just recently used a buddy's 15 gal brewhaus with a thumper.

Your mileage may vary on 1-and-done, but 2x is what I'll stick with.
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Octopus
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Re: #1 was a success - With records

Post by Octopus »

subbrew wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:09 am Octopus - looks like you are doing a one and done run, running the wash once through the still, going slow and collecting the product with cuts. I assume by the numbers it is a pot still.

As NZChris hits on, you will get a better product, and a better yield if you do stripping runs first. I totally understand wanting to get some product quickly from that first ferment. But you will get a better outcome if you ferment enough for three boiler fills. Do stripping runs on the three, collecting the output as low wines and then do the spirit run. The output of the spirit run will be a higher abv and the heads and tails will concentrate more giving a wider hearts cut.

And if you just need to get a little early, you can do as I did. On the stripping runs, when I knew I was in hearts I would cut back the heat and slow way down to a steady drip on the output. I would get three jars at that rate which were pretty good hearts. Keep one or two depending on taste, put the other back in with the low wines. this gave me a little white dog to sample before I got to the spirit run as at that time I was fermenting each boiler charge separately so it was several weeks from the first stripping run until I was ready for the spirit run
Ahhh yes I suppose I am doing a one and done, but not through any means of impatience for product, more an inexperience of the process. My understanding was that the more times distilled, the less the flavour coming across even though I know there was not a lot to offer flavour wise from the wort and that it would have been a higher abv. I was aiming for a taste of sorts, not a pure vodka... in saying this a slightly cleaner tasting spirit would not have been something I'd be upset with. And now understanding the heads and tails would likely concentrate more outward answers the question of my relatively minimal collection of the drinkable :)

You're on the money subbrew, it is a pot still but could have run it slower, I was strangely using the temp of the distillate as an indicator to turn the cooling up (*slapsforehead - I know I know :roll: ). I really want to get an Inkbird controller to run it slower in the not too distant future though, I had it coming off at the rate in the image below and that was too fast for my liking really, it felt like a stripping run and distillate was a little warmer than I suspected it should have been so back to *slapsforehead. In hindsight my upping the cooling because the distillate was too warm was daft, I do realise this and why I did that don't ask me, it would have been condensing more so it was coming off pretty fast (image below); and so yes, NZchris... I'm likely drinking low wines :oops: OMG I feel stupid with that one. Although, is it a low wine if it's a single distillation :lolno:

It's slowly clicking now though, bloody good info and really appreciate the feedback gents... I was actually building up for the process of multiple ferments anyway hence the 3 fermenting vessels and stripping runs with the failed rice wort I just dumped, it's now apparent to me the stripping runs are essential to gather the volume of low wines for reasons of pushing out the cut boundaries. My thoughts at the time were that if it failed I didn't waste a lot of resource, I didn't need much for the first experiment to have a wee practice sugar run and I wanted a single distillation for what ever weird reason I thought at the time this would be best. Oh flavour that's right haha, rubberduck71... Roger that re: single distillates noted ;)

Onward and upward then, it can only get better from here with a few whoops on the way I suppose. Makes me want to do the same wash again with 3 loads of the low wines to spot the differences! This is addictive! Below images are the rate I collected at, and the general setup for your interest... The pic of the still is just doing my first vinegar run a while ago, I now have it on a good solid bench in the garage with plenty of ventilation. Sorry for the mega posts, just an attempt to paint as accurate picture as I can. --not sure why the photos are sideways :think:

Thanks heaps folks.
7906293F-F740-4002-B910-DFE5FCA772FC.jpeg
B4D0605D-C5F3-407D-9C06-8E635504DC77.jpeg
Mod Edit :rotated your pics
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: #1 was a success - With records

Post by Saltbush Bill »

I think youd learn more faster if you spent more time watching the still , tasting , smelling and feeling whats leaving the still... .and less time worrying about and entering numbers on sheets of paper or into a computer.
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Re: #1 was a success - With records

Post by GrumbleStill »

G’day Octopus,

Enjoyed reading your posts. One thing I noticed is that you’re considering an inkbird controller for your boiler. If I’m not mistaken, (which btw I usually am) the inkbird is an on/off style temperature controller. Great to keep a fermenter warm, but not so much for distillation, where a stable heat source is paramount. If you want to slow down your boiler, you’ll need a power controller. A quick search of this site will give you a heap of options to build or buy a power controller that will suit your kit.

Cheers
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subbrew
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Re: #1 was a success - With records

Post by subbrew »

As Grumblestill said, if your still does not have a power controller you need one. That way you can dial in the power to the situation to get just the take off rate you want.

Contrary to what some say, keep recording data as well. It is how I learn. I smell and taste as well but I like being able to see trends I can link the changes in smell and taste back to. So I record power, abv and timing of each jar.

Even with stripping and then spirit run you will get plenty of flavor on a pot still. And it will be a better flavor. But you also get the abv up above 60% which is about where you want it for aging.
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Re: #1 was a success - With records

Post by Octopus »

Thanks for that lads, I haven't delved deep into power control yet but it would be nice to have ultimate control over the boiler. Come to think of it I have only seen the inkbirds in passing and yes, on fermention temp control, one output or the other on at one time with a bit of hysteresis. Cheers for the heads up grumble. I learn a lot with the whole repeated and accumulating data records and trends too subbrew, I spent every second watching and playing with different set points to see if I could find my baseline as it was my very first time ever distilling anything, I do get what saltbush is trying to say, it doesn't hurt to record things as well though... The more data you have right? 😁 I think that's the hardest thing for a first time, finding that baseline to reference anything against.
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Re: #1 was a success - With records

Post by Saltbush Bill »

If keeping all those numbers helps , then by all means do.........look back at the same ones in 12 months time and I'm pretty sure you will ask your self ''Why?''
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Re: #1 was a success - With records

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Octopus wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:50 pm Thanks for that lads, I haven't delved deep into power control yet but it would be nice to have ultimate control over the boiler. Come to think of it I have only seen the inkbirds in passing and yes, on fermention temp control, one output or the other on at one time with a bit of hysteresis. Cheers for the heads up grumble. I learn a lot with the whole repeated and accumulating data records and trends too subbrew, I spent every second watching and playing with different set points to see if I could find my baseline as it was my very first time ever distilling anything, I do get what saltbush is trying to say, it doesn't hurt to record things as well though... The more data you have right? 😁 I think that's the hardest thing for a first time, finding that baseline to reference anything against.
Don't worry too much about a baseline. Each time will be a bit different, different % in the wash/mash, different temp of cooling water. I do have a few "baselines' that I look for to ensure things are starting as I expect them. For example it takes about 11 minutes for a 8% mash to fill a jar to 6 cups on a stripping run. If I didn't see that I would start looking for a problem. But mostly I look for changes. If I have been going at 11 min per jar and now it is 12 min I check abv of that jar before dumping in the low wine keg because I must be getting closer to the end and abv is falling off. Yes, I could tell that by the changing smell as well but being an engineer I like the numbers to back it up.
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Re: #1 was a success - With records

Post by Octopus »

Yeah precicely, gives you a guide of normality/what to expect huh... I do hear ya saltbush, I almost bet ya bottom dollar you're on the money there, regarding a few more miles under my belt I'll not bother as much as I get used to it. Already I have learned so much from this first one alone... Can't wait to do more 😀
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Re: #1 was a success - With records

Post by Michel »

Octopus, you earned my admiration with your records! I was writing down some notes during my sacrificial run.. and thought about you!
Any chance to share the Excel template?
Thanks a lot!
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Re: #1 was a success - With records

Post by Octopus »

Michel wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:51 am Octopus, you earned my admiration with your records! I was writing down some notes during my sacrificial run.. and thought about you!
Any chance to share the Excel template?
Thanks a lot!
Thanks Michael, sorry for the late reply, no problem in sharing but it could be done much better so a relatively manual sheet except the odd formula... it's a sheet you will have to edit each one you are doing because you'll have a differing amount of off take, ingredients, bubble release range (which is only an indication really), etc and the heads/hearts/tails you'll fill in when you make your cuts after. All easy enough, a double click in the right places and a re-selection of data etc will see you editing it easy, I'm only average in excel but it works for me. Be aware the formula I made for gravity can only be used with Celsius but can be altered for Fahrenheit with some digging around. I'll PM you the sheet, there is also some basic scales and conversions on the other tab I did which I just found a bit handy when working some things out. I'm in NZ so made it all metric.
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Re: #1 was a success - With records

Post by JHeron »

Octopus wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:27 am Yes A/L was seconds between release of CO2 bubbles from the air lock, and the INV. (in red) was just to invert the number against a base to make the line on the graph go 'downward' representing the activity visually. I'm no expert so it was just my way to achieve it hahaha.

You my friend may enjoy Fermentrack coupled with Brew bubbles as do a few of my beer brewing brethren!
https://www.fermentrack.com/
https://github.com/lbussy/brew-bubbles

It is pretty slick and enjoyable to put together if your into that sort of thing.
I just run it on a raspberry pie along with fuscus to avoid using an Arduino controller, cause I am cheap...
https://github.com/thorrak/fermentrack/ ... rdware.rst
Great way to control a fermentation chamber and graph the progress for beer.

Cheers,
Jon
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Re: #1 was a success - With records

Post by Octopus »

JHeron, awesome. I wasn't going to do this sort of thing with the ferments/distillations but it definitely leans toward my nature for sure. I have got 3 spare Pi's and an arduino at the moment and was wondering what I should do with them next... Hmmm. I may have a crack at this some time just for fun, a data logging function would be handy, cheers.
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Re: #1 was a success - With records

Post by JHeron »

Octopus wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:13 pm JHeron, awesome. I wasn't going to do this sort of thing with the ferments/distillations but it definitely leans toward my nature for sure. I have got 3 spare Pi's and an arduino at the moment and was wondering what I should do with them next... Hmmm. I may have a crack at this some time just for fun, a data logging function would be handy, cheers.
I think you will love it then!
Cheers,
Jon
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