Noob Heating/Safety Question

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Noob Heating/Safety Question

Postby TDick » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:38 am

I AM A NOOB :mrgreen:
I am having to relocate my distilling activities to my garage and considering alternatives to my gas burner INSIDE the garage.
At the same time I am replacing a built in wall oven that will be kicked to the curb.
Is is feasible to somehow use one of the elements to heat my 5 gallon copper pot similar to - but not as clean as this:?
copper pot.jpg
copper pot.jpg (18.94 KiB) Viewed 426 times


Understand I know little about fabrication and soldering. I have read some of the threads about controllers. Apparently it is written in some foreign language that I do not speak.

Also, I have an old Jenn-Aire stove top with an extra cartridge:
Jenn Aire Cartridge.JPG



Is it possible to use this or the element with 110 volt and get the heat I need without killing myself?
Merry Christmas!.jpg
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Re: Noob Heating/Safety Question

Postby Coyote » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:32 am

I know a lot and I mean A LOT about welding, soldering and electricity.

I would not attempt to do what you are thinking.

Put a 5500 watt water heater element in the side of that copper pot
down low and wire in a 230 Volt plug ( for your welder wink wink) into
the garage and be safe.

Happy stillin' and Merry Christmas

Coyote
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Re: Noob Heating/Safety Question

Postby still_stirrin » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:10 am

Bamaberry,

The “oven” you’re inquiring about....are you thinking of scavanging the heater elements to use under your copper pot? Or are you planning to use them internally?

The heat elements will have a resistance which you can measure with a multimeter. Measure it to figure the wattage they’ll consume when powered (either with 220VAC, if you’ve got it in your shed, or 120VAC, if you don’t). Remember, wattage, W is VxV/R. And the corresponding current draw, I will be W/V or V/R.

So, if the element still works, you could use it externally. But, you’ll need to heed the power and current ratings for the shed’s wiring so you won’t burn the shed down. I would not plan to use the oven’s element internally however, because they were not designed to be immersed.

The photo you show with the porcelain connector...is that from one of the range top burners? It looks like it is a “dual element” burner, which has one pair of leads for low setting (probably the center of the burner) and the other pair for the high setting (the larger outside ring). Use the multimeter to see which terminals is which and what the resistance reading is. Then, you can determine the power rating (wattage) just like I outlined above.

Again, do the calculations to ensure your shed can tolerate the current (power) draw from the element(s). And give yourself a 15-20 percent margin of safety between the calculations and the shed’s breaker rating. Stay on the safe side of the flowing electrons...
ss
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Re: Noob Heating/Safety Question

Postby HDNB » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:25 am

three things:

1.
Apparently it is written in some foreign language that I do not speak.
thats me, and anything that comes out a woman's mouth.

2. i prolly know a lot less than Coyote about the topics...but i agree with him. :thumbup:

3.SS, can you make this english?
wattage, W is VxV/R. And the corresponding current draw, I will be W/V or V/R.


watts is votage squared divided by resistance??? i don't get it, can you give an example. i'm pretty math challenged. :oops:
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now i drink for evil.
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Re: Noob Heating/Safety Question

Postby fizzix » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:57 am

Here's a handy chart:

Ohms_Law.png

* "Power" is Watts
Last edited by fizzix on Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Noob Heating/Safety Question

Postby fizzix » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:24 am

HDNB wrote:watts is votage squared divided by resistance??? i don't get it, can you give an example. i'm pretty math challenged.

To find resistance of a 220v, 5500w element:
Watts = Volts² / Resistance ..equals ..
Volts² / Watts = Resistance ..so ..

220v² / 5500w = Resistance
48,400 / 5500 = 8.8 Ω
-------------------------------
Let's find current:
Current = Volts / Resistance
Current = 220v / 8.8 Ω
Current = 25 amps
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Re: Noob Heating/Safety Question

Postby TDick » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:46 am

still_stirrin wrote:Bamaberry,
The “oven” you’re inquiring about....are you thinking of scavanging the heater elements to use under your copper pot? Or are you planning to use them internally?
The heat elements will have a resistance which you can measure with a multimeter. Measure it to figure the wattage they’ll consume when powered (either with 220VAC, if you’ve got it in your shed, or 120VAC, if you don’t). Remember, wattage, W is VxV/R. And the corresponding current draw, I will be W/V or V/R.
you can determine the power rating (wattage) just like I outlined above.
Again, do the calculations to ensure your shed can tolerate the current (power) draw from the element(s). And give yourself a 15-20 percent margin of safety between the calculations and the shed’s breaker rating. Stay on the safe side of the flowing electrons...
ss


Thank you but I don't think you appreciate my level of expertise.This was my first boiler.
First Still.jpg


Seriously, I have no idea what you said. I have thought about trying to add a hot water element myself but I pretty sure that's a pretty good way for me to screw up my pot. Understanding that this is - to me - a small pot, what would happen if I connected either the element from the oven or the cassette to a 110 outlet? Would it generate enough heat to distill? And how would it compare to just going to the Wal and buying a hot plate?
In fact, I just checked and they have a 1000 watt hot plate for $10.00
WalMart Hot Plate.jpg

I'm thinking that's probably the best thing for me.
:mrgreen:
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Re: Noob Heating/Safety Question

Postby StillerBoy » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:14 am

What you are showing for about 10 bucks will not last.. the element tent to burn out quickly on those units, plus it will take forever to heat up your pot..

Why not get an old house stove and use it as is.. or cut it up and make it into a 240 hot plate..

Mars
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Re: Noob Heating/Safety Question

Postby TDick » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:17 pm

StillerBoy wrote:What you are showing for about 10 bucks will not last.. the element tent to burn out quickly on those units, plus it will take forever to heat up your pot..
Why not get an old house stove and use it as is.. or cut it up and make it into a 240 hot plate..
Mars

OK Stiller, you HAVE TO READ THE THREAD!! :)
I don't know shit! I'm sure I could tear a stove down, but putting it back together? Different story.
I DID take an engineering class in college. There were a lot of football and baseball players in there and we melted metals and each made a cast piggy bank.
Other than that we just showed up and got an A. (true story)

Now, based on what you are suggesting, wouldn't it be MUCH easier to figure out how to power the Jenn Aire cassette, set it on the workspace with the pot on it?
In fact, the spare I have only works on high temp and is constant. What would happen if I'm planning on using one "eye", I connect that to my 110 outlet?
And if I'm watching the pot, do I need anything more than an on/off switch?
That would be about as mechanical as I could probably get.
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Re: Noob Heating/Safety Question

Postby still_stirrin » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:22 pm

Here’s my last suggestion....get an electrician. Open your wallet and get prepared to pay someone with enough knowledge to do the work for you. Do you understand that?
ss
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Re: Noob Heating/Safety Question

Postby fizzix » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:38 pm

Don't screw with it Bamaberry. Too many variables and you've convinced me it's not the project for you.
Here's what I use: 1500w Amazon hotplate.
I wired past the thermostat and it's lasted for months with weekly distilling.

Wiring past the thermostat is easy on this model. The whole bottom comes off with a Phillips screwdriver.
There are 2 wires going to the front (temperature dial) thermostat.
Cut those two wires free from the thermostat, strip them, wire nut them together. Thermostat is now a useless dial with nothing connected to it.
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Re: Noob Heating/Safety Question

Postby TDick » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:40 pm

Coyote wrote:I know a lot and I mean A LOT about welding, soldering and electricity.

I would not attempt to do what you are thinking.

Put a 5500 watt water heater element in the side of that copper pot
down low and wire in a 230 Volt plug ( for your welder wink wink) into
the garage and be safe.

Happy stillin' and Merry Christmas

Coyote


Have patience with me guys. :wtf:
Short version I am back on this.
Hilltopper posted a new thread about what type submersible element to put in his 14 gallon pot converting from propane:
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=69738

My question still goes back to my 5 gallon pot ( running 2.5 - 3 gallon wash)
SHORT VERSION: Down to 3 options:
1. 1500 W hotplate.
2. Using propane crawfish boil rig
3. Cut in an element. If I do that, I will be using my regular 110 wall outlet. Element choices would be a 1500 Watt/120 Volt or for $5.00 more, this 5500/240 element as you were talking about?
5500W 240W element.jpg

I ASSuME I would get better service and longer life with the heavier duty element, or am I "uneducated" and it would not be as efficient ? :mrgreen:
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Re: Noob Heating/Safety Question

Postby Antler24 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:54 pm

Unless you plan on upgrading your wiring to 240v in the future You'd be better off with the 1500w element. A 5500w element at 110v is little less than 1375w.
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Re: Noob Heating/Safety Question

Postby TDick » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:04 pm

Antler24 wrote:Unless you plan on upgrading your wiring to 240v in the future You'd be better off with the 1500w element. A 5500w element at 110v is little less than 1375w.

Thanks Antler!
Yeah, I just read that a 240 volt running on 120 operates a 25% wattage, not 50% as I ASSuMEd.
:D :D
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Re: Noob Heating/Safety Question

Postby DrGreenT » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:03 pm

Tdick,

I'd wager looking at the plugs on that Jenn-Air stovetop insert that it would require 240V anyways to operate, so it's no better than the 5500W 240V element in that regard (not worth the hassle). Plus, it will be impossible to find a plug to fit it, and it doesn't sound like you're interested in soldering/modifying it. If you are stuck working with 120V and you don't want to go about modifying your pot with an internal element, do what everyone's saying and get a 120V hotplate. Also, depending on how ventilated your garage is, you could likely run a propane burner in there with the door/window cracked. If you're real worried, just get a plug-in CO monitor to see if it's safe while heating up some straight water for a mash.
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