Grain Caution

This hobby is fun & enjoyable, but it is not tiddlywinks. Be safe!

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BlackStrap
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Grain Caution

Post by BlackStrap »

Hey there all;

Thought I would share an experience, and hopefully someone can shed more light on this.
If it's been discussed before, my apologies.

My local feed store owner and I have an understanding, he knows i'll occasionally by grain from him, and we've sat down and talked about 6 row barley vs 2 row the different wheats and rye grains. Last time I was in he told me to stop back mid to late February...He has a new supplier, for barley designed for malting, and thought maybe it would be better for me. He let me borrow the booklet of grain and seed choices from that company, and I did a lot of googling on some of the terminology. Ended up calling the seed company and talked to the representative, and found out the barley and wheat grains listed are not for animal or human consumption These grains are treated, by means chemicals and GMOs that make these grains resistant to bugs and weed killers (RoundUp). These grains to be grown and harvested before fit to consume.

I'm pretty sure these grains would be easy to malt, but not sure what kind of a product, or how harmful using them could be?

Would really enjoy some of you alls input or this.

Thanks, Remember be Safe & Have Fun
BlackStrap
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zed255
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Re: Grain Caution

Post by zed255 »

As I understand it that is the difference between seed grade (not for consumption) and feed grade (for consumption). Seed grade will germinate more reliability because it is intended to which may be why your guy thought it better for malting.
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Warthaug
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Re: Grain Caution

Post by Warthaug »

BlackStrap wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:37 am Hey there all;

Thought I would share an experience, and hopefully someone can shed more light on this.
If it's been discussed before, my apologies.

My local feed store owner and I have an understanding, he knows i'll occasionally by grain from him, and we've sat down and talked about 6 row barley vs 2 row the different wheats and rye grains. Last time I was in he told me to stop back mid to late February...He has a new supplier, for barley designed for malting, and thought maybe it would be better for me. He let me borrow the booklet of grain and seed choices from that company, and I did a lot of googling on some of the terminology. Ended up calling the seed company and talked to the representative, and found out the barley and wheat grains listed are not for animal or human consumption These grains are treated, by means chemicals and GMOs that make these grains resistant to bugs and weed killers (RoundUp). These grains to be grown and harvested before fit to consume.

I'm pretty sure these grains would be easy to malt, but not sure what kind of a product, or how harmful using them could be?

Would really enjoy some of you alls input or this.

Thanks, Remember be Safe & Have Fun
BlackStrap
Whomever you talked to did not inform you correctly. There are no approved GMO'd cereals other than corn. So barley, wheat, rye, etc, are all non-GMO. GMO's are also harmless to consumers, so its not something to worry about if buying corn or sugar beets - most of which are GMO'd. Glyphosate (roundup) is not used as a seed treatment either - it's half-life following application is far too short lived to be useful for that use, plus adding a weed control agent to a seed doesn't make any sense (fungicides and insecticides are what are typically used in seed applications). Glyphosate is also less toxic to humans than is table salt, so worrying about it is unnecessary - you'll find far more toxic compounds used on "organic" cereal production than glyphosate. When seed is treated, by law, the treatment coating must be brightly coloured to make it apparent and obvious that the coating is there - these seeds are usually bright orange, red, or purple in colour. If your grain looks like grain, its not treated.

Seed used for planting is not tested for human or animal consumption, and therefore it cannot be sold as such. Testing showing that cereals are free of pesticides is required in most countries before they can be sold for human or animal use - seed for planting is simply not tested, but that's not the same as saying its unsafe. Seed is generally sourced from the same fields/farms as human/animal approved versions, so unless its treated it is likely safe. Farmers generally don't know until harvest whether their seed will be of malting grade (the best grade), seed grade, food grade, feed grade or industrial grade (those are listed in order of value), and as such generally treat their fields as though they were producing food/malting quality goods, in the hopes of reaching that grade. Above-legal thresholds of pesticide residue immediately gets your crop decertified for any use but seed or industrial grade, so farmers tend to be quite careful about ensuring they don't treat too close to harvest to ensure that they have the best chance of meeting a higher (and therefore better paying) grade. I'd also add that few farmers sell seed for planting purposes, as most of planting-grade seed is produced on-contract to a seed producer, and usually requires specialized pollination management that is hard for most farmers to achieve.

As for malting, malting grade would be best, followed closely by seed quality. The same properties which make grain good for one (protein composition/percentage, starch content, and uniformity of seed size/shape) also makes it good for the other. As you move into the other grades it becomes a bit more of a crap-shoot, as the selection process becomes a little less stringent. You could end up with a bag that gives malt with massive diastatic power, and the next bag of the same grade from the same supplier may have poor diastatic power. They all will malt - but your yield and the ability of the malt to convert additional adjuncts can vary greatly.

Bryan
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Bushman
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Re: Grain Caution

Post by Bushman »

Having only six posts I wanted to go back and read your posts. This post is really well thought out and makes a lot of sense to me thanks for sharing your knowledge on grains, pesticides, etc.
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Demy
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Re: Grain Caution

Post by Demy »

I have always used barley for feed, and wheat suitable for flour (human consumption) having a mill where they produce flour a few kilometers away. I could be wrong but some sowing products are covered with fungicide / insecticide substances to resist "attacks" in the soil, perhaps that could be the reason why they are not suitable for consumption (not even for animals).
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Re: Grain Caution

Post by Warthaug »

Bushman wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:34 am Having only six posts I wanted to go back and read your posts. This post is really well thought out and makes a lot of sense to me thanks for sharing your knowledge on grains, pesticides, etc.
You won't find much - I've been lurking here for years, but only signed up for an account recently as I'm looking to improve my distilling game.

FWIW, I'm a microbiology prof as my "day" job, and part of that work has included being an advisor on scientific studies looking at farm chemical impacts on honey bees and the use of probiotics to counter those issues. I also teach students how to make GMO'd bacteria, so I'm familiar with the technology and the issues surrounding it. I farmed throughout my childhood and early adulthood - I went into science to "escape" the farm, and then promptly married a farmer :crazy: . So I'm a scientist by day, and farm hand by evening/weekend.
Brewer for decades, dabbler in distilling trying to get better at the craft.
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Demy
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Re: Grain Caution

Post by Demy »

Warthaug wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:34 am
Bushman wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:34 am Having only six posts I wanted to go back and read your posts. This post is really well thought out and makes a lot of sense to me thanks for sharing your knowledge on grains, pesticides, etc.
You won't find much - I've been lurking here for years, but only signed up for an account recently as I'm looking to improve my distilling game.

FWIW, I'm a microbiology prof as my "day" job, and part of that work has included being an advisor on scientific studies looking at farm chemical impacts on honey bees and the use of probiotics to counter those issues. I also teach students how to make GMO'd bacteria, so I'm familiar with the technology and the issues surrounding it. I farmed throughout my childhood and early adulthood - I went into science to "escape" the farm, and then promptly married a farmer :crazy: . So I'm a scientist by day, and farm hand by evening/weekend.
Thanks for the contribution Warthaug, what you wrote is very interesting because it is a mix of theory and experience "in the field" (if you are a "in the field" grower I think it is suitable)
A curiosity, once I bought a sack of barley which unfortunately was contaminated by the "wheat weevil" (so called?) And I discarded it ... I think it is proof of the absence of insecticides, right?
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Re: Grain Caution

Post by Warthaug »

Demy wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:51 am Thanks for the contribution Warthaug, what you wrote is very interesting because it is a mix of theory and experience "in the field" (if you are a "in the field" grower I think it is suitable)
A curiosity, once I bought a sack of barley which unfortunately was contaminated by the "wheat weevil" (so called?) And I discarded it ... I think it is proof of the absence of insecticides, right?
Yep, that and poor storage. If kept dry, insects like weevils can't really live in the sack.
Brewer for decades, dabbler in distilling trying to get better at the craft.
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