All grain - is it worth it.

Rocky_Creek · Post by **Rocky_Creek** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:32 pm

As a practical matter is it worth it to do an all grain Whiskey? If you have , done both all grain and say the sour mash method, is there more than personal satisfaction for the accomplishment ( no small feat ) or is the whiskey that much better.

Post by **Tater** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:45 pm

That would be a call the distiller has to make dont ya think?.

Rocky_Creek · Post by **Rocky_Creek** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:29 pm

Yes, but I haven't tried it. So I'm just cuusing for opinions.

TN.Frank · Post by **TN.Frank** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:46 pm

I still don't understand the "sour mash" method either. I thought that when the mash stopped bubbling all the yeast was dead and the mash was ready to run. How can you take the stuff that's left over from the mash and bring it back to life for a second batch? I've drank store bought stuff that was "sour mash" whiskey and it's pretty good but all that I've made to this point is what they call "sweet mash". As for "All Grain" you'd have to malt some of it to get the enzymes into it to convert the starch to sugar or it'd just sit there and do nothing. One day I'm going to get some corn from the Co-Op, malt some of it, rough grind up the rest and try an all grain mash. It's just so easy for now to do it like I've been doing it.

Rocky_Creek · Post by **Rocky_Creek** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:58 pm

The yeast don't die, unless maybe you have an extreme amount of sugar for them to start with. Normally they would just go dormant. Works like a charm.

I put the backins and sugar mixture back in the fermenter with the grain and the small amount of liquid I didn't distill about 7 hours ago, it is just beginning to bubble. Probably would have been faster except for the cold weather.

TN.Frank · Post by **TN.Frank** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:07 pm

So after I get done fermenting a batch I can leave the solids in the bucket, put what's left over after my first run(after it's cooled down of course) and add more sugar and water and let er' go for a second fermentation. Is that what I'm hearing, because if it is that'll save me a lot of money on yeast.

P.S.
Would I need to add a little more fresh corn meal to the mix to keep the corn flavor in my whiskey? How many runs can I get out of the corn meal that's in the fermentor before it's spend and needs to be replaced? This is some really cool news.

Rocky_Creek · Post by **Rocky_Creek** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:03 pm

Sounds like you're getting it. Leave the solids in the fermenter. As soon as you are done with the distilling, place a given amount of sugar in a bucket(s). Drain hot water ( I use the term loosely) from the still into the bucket(s) and stir. Let cool. Pour back into fermenter. Bring up to a certain point with fresh water. On my first run I use 35 gallons of water, the grain adsorbs a certain amount. I drain out 30 gallons to distill. I repalce water to get to the point it was before. I keep draining 30 gallons out. I base the sugar on 30 gallons even though on the first run I may have 35. The first run produces less that the next runs. I use 7 buckets, each with 10 lbs sugar. Except that I place 5 lbs sugar into the fermenter (40 gal stainless) and about 3-5 gallons water in the fermenter as someone on a forum told me to give the yeast somthing to do. Subtract the 5 lbs from the 70. Take the feins from the first run and add to the next.

TN.Frank · Post by **TN.Frank** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:23 pm

Interesting, think I'll give it a try. That'll save me a bunch of yeast and from what I've heard "sour mash" has a much better flavor then "sweet mash" whiskey. I'll let ya' know how it turns out. I should be running my first batch on Sunday. I'll keep the solids in the bucket and put the stuff left over from the run into something to let it cool. When it's cooled down I'll throw in a 5 lb bag of sugar, top it off with water and let ya' know what's going on then. Thanks.

The Chemist · Post by **The Chemist** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:23 pm

Hey TN.Frank
Hate to burst your bubble, but I don't think you can use the (what th'hell do you call it--it's dunder in rum ain't it?) "sour mash" as your only yeast source. With washes which aren't boiled, as beer is, you're fightin' a running battle with whatever bugs might be present to begin with. You might get something really funky. What do you other guys think?

BTW, 25 years ago, I lived for a year in Spring City, TN. Lovely area ya got up there! After all the kids moved out (dang it!), my folks retired to Concord, right on the river!

Rocky_Creek · Post by **Rocky_Creek** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:42 pm

I don't have to think, I do it. The acid keeps the bacteria down. Read the book by Ian Smiley " Making Pure Corn Whiskey". Beer brewers are way too hung up on bacteria. By the way "dunder" is the liquid from rum. The yeast is from the solids in the grain.

TN.Frank · Post by **TN.Frank** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:53 pm

So the yeast will attach to the corn meal that's left in the fermentor. I tend to "over yeast" anyway to make sure that they push out anything that's not good. I use 1/4 cup of bakers yeast for 4 gallons of mash and whip it in real good to get alot of air into the mix. I think I'll give it a try. The worst that can happen is that it'll not take and I'll have to add some yeast to get it working again. Besides, it does smell pretty "sour' when I work it up after it's fermented, a sure sign that it's pretty acidic.