Do you ferment on the grain? When mashing

[scotty]

Because it seems to be less work or are there scientific reasons such as higher yield or more of some flavors??

[rubber duck]

yes I do, on everything except malt barley.

[glassman]

of course. thats why i do all grain. gman

[scotty]

Yes what please??? More yield or just easier???

[ScottishBoy]

I like to ferment on the grain because its easier to deal with and I think it provides a little more flavor. It could be said that it might also provide too much more flavor, like soaking a tea bag too long, but I have yet to see it.
Plus the suspension of the grains is a great way to tell if you are done.

[scotty]

I like to ferment on the grain because its easier to deal with and I think it provides a little more flavor. It could be said that it might also provide too much more flavor, like soaking a tea bag too long, but I have yet to see it.
Plus the suspension of the grains is a great way to tell if you are done.

Do you think that if i fermented on the grain while making my irish whiskey i might get more flavor??? sounds interesting.

[rubber duck]

I guess you would get heavier flavor out of doing a malt whiskey on grain but I kinda think the idea of a Irish whiskey is to have a lighter flavor.

[scotty]

I guess you would get heavier flavor out of doing a malt whiskey on grain but I kinda think the idea of a Irish whiskey is to have a lighter flavor.

Yes i agree. I believe i ruined my last batch with too much oak.

Ill just try to be more carefull next winter when i do my next irish whiskey run.

Thanks all for the input.

[Kiwi-lembic]

Traditionally it seams that fermenting on the grain was the way it was done with whiskeys .. unlike beer it seams you do not have to be too concerned about clarity ...as the distillation sorts this

my thoughts and only concern from all grain mashes i do in my beers
With a good yeast and an starting SG (starting gravity )of 1090 you will have one hell fermentation goin on ,this may lead to pulling thru tannin like flavours into the wort to distill when you drain ..which is a big problem in beer if a sparge is done all wrong (too much water rinsed over the grain)
the topic of getting all the yummy flavours thru into your whiskey with a potstill is a biggy in here ,this is my only concern of fermenting on the grain against draining the wort off after the mash through a well built false bottom mash tun with a easy to use tap at the bottom ..then adding it to your fermentor and biffin the yeast in

tannin flavours from upsetting the grains too much during the mash out or over sparging is a tarty icky taste .


food for thought .

[rubber duck]

How would one go about sparging corn?

[goose eye]

the balancein is what make you who you are an time will prove it.

so im tole

[eddie]

How would one go about sparging corn?

I would think you'd have to use a ton of rice hulls to keep the grain bed loose enough in the mash tun and draw off really slow to keep it from compacting.

[Kiwi-lembic]

How would one go about sparging corn?

I would think you'd have to use a ton of rice hulls to keep the grain bed loose enough in the mash tun and draw off really slow to keep it from compacting.

ive read in here if adding malt to the recipe helps the mash stay more afloat and easier to drain the wort off i guess
its kinda like a stuck sparge with wheats etc ..in a micro kit ya' can get on in there and gently free the grain bed up ,(but not disturbing it too much at the risk of pulling out those tannins )the big boys have paddles in thier tuns to avoid stuck.. so to continue sparging effectively ..
nice comment eddie ,i hear carona has rice in it ,and rice is a clean taste ,never played with it but gotta be good for ya in a whiskey reciepe imagine

[eddie]

How would one go about sparging corn?

I would think you'd have to use a ton of rice hulls to keep the grain bed loose enough in the mash tun and draw off really slow to keep it from compacting.

ive read in here if adding malt to the recipe helps the mash stay more afloat and easier to drain the wort off i guess
its kinda like a stuck sparge with wheats etc ..in a micro kit ya' can get on in there and gently free the grain bed up ,(but not disturbing it too much at the risk of pulling out those tannins )the big boys have paddles in thier tuns to avoid stuck.. so to continue sparging effectively ..
nice comment eddie ,i hear carona has rice in it ,and rice is a clean taste ,never played with it but gotta be good for ya in a whiskey reciepe imagine

Not rice, just the hulls. They keep the grain bed loose so it doesn't clump up and clog the drain when you sparge. I've used them in beer quite a bit. 1 lb rice hulls to ten pounds of grain. If you were going to try and use them to loosen up a corn mash, I think you would have to use a lot more, though.

[rubber duck]

I've tried it in corn and I had a hell of a time, I gave up and just did it on grain. I think your right Eddie, corn isn't wheat, if I was to try again I think I would do a malted corn and 20% rice hulls.

[Kiwi-lembic]

[
Not rice, just the hulls. They keep the grain bed loose so it doesn't clump up and clog the drain when you sparge. I've used them in beer quite a bit. 1 lb rice hulls to ten pounds of grain. If you were going to try and use them to loosen up a corn mash, I think you would have to use a lot more, though.

------------------
howdy Eddie...thats a plan worth a crack...do you find just the rice hulls throw through any flavours in your clean wort/beer

[Kiwi-lembic]

[quote="rubber duck"]I've tried it in corn and I had a hell of a time, I gave up and just did it on grain.

hi R.D when you say a hell of a time what do you actually refer too ...stuck mash ?...extraction /conversion ?
hope alls well

[Dnderhead]

corn trub plugs most any screen you use,so I do off the grain my own way.

[Kiwi-lembic]

corn trub plugs most any screen you use,so I do off the grain my own way.

cheers dnder'....read many many differnt angles on corn types ..whats your prefered type of corn ,cracked ,ground,flaked ,malted

[Dnderhead]

just use cracked,flaked is nice but gits to expensive,white or southwestern would be good if it is available.

[Kiwi-lembic]

just use cracked,flaked is nice but gits to expensive,white or southwestern would be good if it is available.

believe thats were were going to go ,cracked from a animal feed place possibly here in N. Z ..have a monster mill 3 roller jobby here ,guessin doin a roll on it maybe a go ,just dependant wether she turns into a big bloody sticky mush in the tun.
That white and sothern western ,that be over your way ?

[Dnderhead]

white/southwestern is better as it has more starch,=,less trub,(used for flour/starch) I grab that if I can.
when cooking, throw in a handful of malt, that will help thin it out.

[JethroBodine]

I've done both, but, I've recently moved to off the grain for the less cleanup time when filling the still. There is a taste difference , so you will have to experiment for your own preference. That's one of my favorite things about this hobby!

[JethroBodine]

Forgot, malted corn is MUCH easier to deal with. Sorry.

[Kiwi-lembic]

I believe this a quote from ian smileys book

I'm also aware that to ferment a beer on its grains would not only impart all kinds of off-flavours and undesirable bitterness from the husks, but it would engender yeast autolysis later in the fermentation cycle.

[Kiwi-lembic]

the balancein is what make you who you are an time will prove it.
so im tole

poetry goose eye ..

[eddie]

[
Not rice, just the hulls. They keep the grain bed loose so it doesn't clump up and clog the drain when you sparge. I've used them in beer quite a bit. 1 lb rice hulls to ten pounds of grain. If you were going to try and use them to loosen up a corn mash, I think you would have to use a lot more, though.

------------------
howdy Eddie...thats a plan worth a crack...do you find just the rice hulls throw through any flavours in your clean wort/beer

They don't alter the flavor at all but you have to adjust your water for the mash to keep the water/grain ratio right. I usually add 1-1.25qts of water/pound of rice hulls in the tun and the same for the sparge water. I've never used them in a decoction mash so I don't know if boiling them would cause any off flavors (like astringency) to show up in the beer but I don't think they would.

**edit**

This got me thinking a little (and a little thought can be a dangerous thing, right?) I don't see any reason why one couldn't do a big-honkin' cereal mash of the corn prior to the grain mash then step mash the grains and corn. This should break down the gelatinous proteins and free up the starches in the corn quite nicely and keep it loose while allowing for better utilization of the corn's starches. What do you all think?

[Kiwi-lembic]

[quote="eddie"]

[
They don't alter the flavor at all but you have to adjust your water for the mash to keep the water/grain ratio right. I usually add 1-1.25qts of water/pound of rice hulls in the tun and the same for the sparge water. I've never used them in a decoction mash so I don't know if boiling them would cause any off flavors (like astringency) to show up in the beer but I don't think they would.

---------------------------
hi again Ed' thats great thankyou .i think your dead right ....if we were to cook and sparge with the hulls in there ,my way of thinkin were only going to pull out tannins husk flavours if we go to hard and upset the mash as happens with malt mashes...
im going to hold my corn at 82 c for about an hour +1/2.then drop temp and add my malt etc (with a cunning devise im workin on lol )
Just like beer ,(sparging) drilling holes in the grain with an agressive shot of water will deliver tannins ) ..i know i can get these out of my beers in time but rather not get them in there for the start..for a fine product
.In here before i mentioned the use of beer smith to easily formulate recipes ..works out the lot ..ratios SG F.G sparge water volume (if using) strike water alch content .
i just added rice hulls to my reciepe im making up ready to cook ..heres what it says in the details for rice hulls

Yield: 0.00 %
Type: Adjunct
Potential: 1.000
Color: 0.0
Coarse Fine Diff: - % Max In Batch: 5.00 %
Moisture: - Must Mash: FALSE
Diastatic Power: - Protein: -
Inventory: 0.00 kg
IBU: 0.000
Notes: Hulls are introduced to improve the speed of lautering when making high gravity or high adjunct beers.
Hulls are neutral in flavor, body and color, and are inert
Good for wheat beers, Wits, and others that have high protein mashes.

p.s i was just about ready to do up my first whiskey mash ..now i gotta find some rice hulls ...lol ...bugger

[JethroBodine]

Rice hulls might be good to try, but are not necessary. As dndr said premalting prevents corn glue. Spargeing is definately doable. I strain mine with a SS screen sieve quite easily at 13lbs corn, 7lbs rye, and 9 gallons water.

[Kiwi-lembic]

Rice hulls might be good to try, but are not necessary. As dndr said premalting prevents corn glue. Spargeing is definately doable. I strain mine with a SS screen sieve quite easily at 13lbs corn, 7lbs rye, and 9 gallons water.

cheers guys ..the answers for me lie in here ...."and for anyone new to this i feel ..matter of layin down the mash now ..thanks so much guys for all of what you all shared..thumbs up for all grain whiskeys