Malting corn question?

[bht9665]

I started malting a batch of corn a week ago. I put the corn in a cooler and soaked it several times then drained it. The corn is starting to sprout but smells sour. Is this normal?

[mick3b1g]

I have a similiar issue.I can get my corn to sprout,but it almost always grows cobweb mold on it so I end up tossing it.(Ive made sure the corn was just damp with plenty of air but it never helps.. I wonder if a quick dunk in bleach and water would help with the mold on the outside of the corn then rinse and rinse before soaking and letting sprout?? Or would this kill the corn...I basically gave up and just buy malted barley but Id love to tackle this problem.

Mick

[Dnderhead]

a small amount of bleach in the water,iv also tried P Meta.either helps.

[Prairiepiss]

a small amount of bleach in the water,iv also tried P Meta.either helps.

Did you mean K meta instead P meta? I know you recommend K meta for a lot of stuff. I had never seen P meta referenced before. So I had to Google it. Didn't find anything.

[Dnderhead]

"Did you mean K meta instead P meta?"
yes I did,,thanks for the correction.

[Prairiepiss]

"Did you mean K meta instead P meta?"
yes I did,,thanks for the correction.

No problem.

[Uncle Jemima]

I'm trying to sprout some now. I've seen people in older threads say to knock off the sprouts and roots before mashing/grinding and others have said they just mash and grind the sprouted corn, roots and all.

What's the difference between the two?

If I do need to knock off and separate the roots and kernels what's the best way? Just shake it around until they break apart then sift out with a colander/strainer or just separate them by hand a kernel at a time?

If it works I'll post a thread with pictures of the different steps in the process and how I used my two buckets. Fingers crossed.

No sprouts yet after two days soaking and one day of just being moist. Hope the corn wasn't dried with high temps.

[Uncle Jemima]

Nevermind. Found this from last April.

Iv used both, mostly green.if you dry then roots/shoots will be "crispy" and will brake off by handling.the more its handled the more brakes off.then pour back and forth from one bucket to another in wind or in front of fan to blow away the "chaff" (do outside)

[Uncle Jemima]

Had a question about this for those who have used the two bucket method with aquarium airstone from the parent site.
http://homedistiller.org/grain/wash-grain/malting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
"After the soak, put the grain in a bucket with hundreds of little holes drilled in it, then sit this bucket into another bucket that has a couple of inches of water in it. Put the airstone from the air pump into the bottom bucket so it bubbles up through the water- leave the lid on loose so the air can be exchanged by the pump. The air pump is scrubbing out the CO2, preventing mold growth, and preventing heat buildup."

When you put the two inches of water in the bottom bucket. Do use some sort of spacers/stands to keep the top bucket just above that and the airstone and avoid the bottom of the top bucket actually being submerged. Or do you just let it sit right on the airstone?

I don't have an airstone yet. I'm just using mason jars to hold my top bucket up enough that it can drain into the bottom one when I rinse it without becoming submerged. Then I empty the bottom one and try and rotate and rinse the corn thoroughly two or three times a day.

Starting to get some decent sprouting and no mold/bad smell yet after about a week.

Actually smells a lot like canned or table corn.

[[andy]]

I have malted alot of corn and make a 100% All Corn whiskey with it. It is easy to do. Get a feed bag from your grain supplier. These are now plastic rather than burlap and drain very well. Soak grain for 24 to 36 hours in the bag which sits in another container (cover with water in plastic trash can) After soaking, just take a hose and water down, from inside the bag, 2 or 3 times a day. I now put a brick in the bottom of the trash can so grain doesn't sit in water. 5 to 6 days in the bag, and you will have sprouts to dry. I have a 3'W X 6'L X2"H frame with fine metal window screen tacked on the bottom of the frame. I have a piece of 3'.6"X 6'.5" plastic (cheap) window screen to lay on top for flies or birds. The frame goes onto sawhorses and I leave this outside and turn it by hand a couple of times a day. This can also go into a garage with a fan or fan/heater under the frame. I grind all roots or sprouts left after drying and find it has no affect on the taste.

[squeezins]

I have always spread the corn out on a table and wet it down and covered it with a blanket, remove and stir the corn around twice a day and keep moist. Usually done in a week to 10 days depending on temp.

[mildly fanatical]

This guy built a tumbler out of a plastic drum and a wiper motor
the constant motion prevents any mould growth ,best idea i've seen
similar to the way it's done comercially

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-41wQHHi0o" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[RumRunR]

I gotta ask a dumb question. I have malted a few small batches with success. my latest was bout a 50 pound batch. it's molding like the guy previously posted ^ up that way. my question is, do I need to trow it out or just let it carry on. I know it'll go ahead and sprout because I've seen this before. but is it ok to use in my mash?

[Dnderhead]

your proses depends on where your located,in warm climate more air calculation is needed'.
rinsing rather than just whetting also helps.

[RumRunR]

i hear all that read other post. but is it trash? can I wash the mold off and use it?

[Dnderhead]

you can wash off mold if its not to bad.if the corn is starting to deteriorate then it wont be worth the trouble.

[Geronimo]

I have found that putting it in a gunny sack that has been cleaned with some bleach and then airating it by stirring the mix once or twice a day should keep it from going sour. I have used corn that had that nice sour smell to it and it didnt matter when you did your wash with it. I think it is from a bacteria but it didnt matter in the final product.....

[Weißer Hund]

Malting corn for moonshine:

What is malting:

Malting is a process applied to cereal grains, in which the grains are made to germinate by soaking in water and
are then quickly halted from germinating further by drying with hot air.

Why do we malt grains such as corn

Malting grains develops the enzymes that are required to modify the grain's starches into sugars including
monosaccharides such as glucose or fructose, and disaccharides such as sucrose or maltose. It also develops
other enzymes, such as proteases, which break down the proteins in the grain into forms which can be utilized
by yeast.

How to malt corn:

1. Use white corn as yellow corn contains too much oil.
2. 20 lbs. of whole corn soaked it in water hot tap water for 24 hours, drained and soaked in hot tap water again for 18 hours.
3. Drained and spread it out on table 1 1/2 inches thick. Covered with cool, wet towels. I remove towels and stir it up by hand every 8 hours or so. (I am keeping the towels wet with a spray bottle in order to keep the corn moist & cool). It is important to keep clean, cool, moist air moving around the kernels to prevent molding. Distilleries have special malting floors for this.
4. The corn will start to germinate. This will take up to 5 days, depending on the room temperature. Cooler is better. Malted corn can be used immediately while wet or dried for longer storage.
5. Dry the sprouted corn (Malt) by placing a big box fan on table and blowing air over the top of kernels, stirring a couple times a day.
6. Once dry, the germination process has stopped and the sprouted corn can be kept for a few months

Making the wash/ the mashing process:

• Heat 15 ltr/4 gallon water to 67°C/152°F, add crushed corn malt and wrap in a blanket to keep the temperature stable at mashing temperatures (67°C/152°F). You can use corn grits along with the corn malt. Corn malt has enough enzymatic power to convert at a 60/40 ratio of malt to grits. Boil the grits first to soften the starch and make it available to the enzymes in the corn malt or any malt for that matter. I would highly recommend reading the process of mashing found in Beer maker books.
• Let sit 1 hour to allow the enzymes from the malted corn to convert the starch into fermentable sugars.
• Strain & Rinse (sparge) grains in 4 ltr/1 gallon hot water 77°C/170°F to remove all sugars from the grain bed using mash tun or similar technique to separate the spent grains from the sweet wort/washa total of 19 ltr/ 5 gallon.
• Top up with cool water to total 19 ltr/5 gallons.
• Cool as quickly as possible to 25°C - 26°C/77°F.
• Aerate the wort.
• Pitch rehydrated yeast

Fermenting:

This will give a fairly quick ferment and finish in about 3 to 4 days. Let it settle for a further 1 or 2 days after the bubbling has all-but stopped, to let the yeast re-absorb excess diacetyl and settle out the solids to the bottom of the fermenter. Do not try to rush it - just give it the time it needs.
Syphon the clear wash into the still and do the first distillation.

Again I highly recommend reading up on the Malting/Mashing process found in all advanced Beer brewing books. Mashing is essential if you want to make a 100% corn whisky or single malt Whiskey. Mashing allows you to convert other starchy vegetables & grains like; potatoes, pumpkins, rice, etc. to sugars that can be fermented, then distilled.

[Weißer Hund]

Mashing fundamentals:

Mashing is the process of converting simple starches found in grains & vegetables to fermentable sugars used in producing ethyl alcohol.
Every distiller should have a working knowledge of the mashing process. This allows the distiller the freedom and capability to convert many starchy sources to a useable fermentable sugar. This allows the distiller to produce a 100% pure corn whisky using only corn and no adjunct sugar to the wash or to produce a mostly potato vodka wash. There are many sources of starch that can be used/converted to fermentable sugar, some examples are: pumpkins, potatoes, sweet potatoes, rice, corn grits, oatmeal, wheat flour, and tapioca.

The first step in mashing/converting starches is to use “Malt”. Malt is a grain (barley, wheat, rye, corn) that has been through the malting process. The process of malting consists of 1.) Steeping the grain in water for a 24 hour period to rehydrate the grain kernel and start the growing process. 2.) The grains are then aerated and turned over at least twice a day to keep the grains aerated and to prevent hot spots. Grains should be rinsed with clean water daily to prevent dehydration. Malting is best done at temperatures of 65°F to 85°F, the cooler the better. This will slow the growing process. The warmer the malt temperature the more often you will have to aerate & turn the malt to prevent souring and rot. 3.) When the grains have rooted and have grown to the proper length (conversion), the malting process is halted and the grains are dried. What has happened to the grains is they have used their enzymes to start the conversion of starch to simple sugars the plant needs to grow. 4.) The grain/malt is now dried to preserve these enzymes at their peak, to be used in converting adjunct starch to glucose, maltose and maltotriose, the fermentable sugars.

The second step in mashing is to take a measured amount of Malt and add hot water to the mixture to start the mashing process. Adjunct starches should be boiled or cooked to break down the starch into a more convertible starch before adding to the mash. Hot adjunct starch can be added to the mash liquor to aid in bringing the mash up to the proper conversion temperatures. The first mash step is the “Beta Glucanase” rest (better known as dough-in) 95°F-113°F. The second mash rest is the “Protease, Peptidase” rest (the protein rest) 115°F – 131°F, this rest breaks down the proteins, making for a better mash sparge and a cleaner ferment. The third mash rest is the “Beta Amylase” rest 140°F – 149°F. This is one of two Saccrification rests, this rest produce most of the fermentable sugars. The forth mash rest is the “Alpha Amylase” rest 149°F – 158°F. This is the second of the two Saccrification rests. This rest produces less of the fermentable sugars and more dextrin’s & Maltotetraose sugars (non-fermentable sugars). The first two mash steps are not critical to the distiller, just helpful, they very useful to the beer brewer.
The mash should be in the thickness ratio of 2 Qt. / 1 Lb. – 3 Qt. /1 Lb. of water to malt- adjunct. As I stated earlier, the hot adjunct starch can be added to the malt/water mixture and used to bring the mash up to the proper mash temperature for Saccrification. The mixture should be mixed thoroughly, stabilized at the proper mash temperature, and held at that temperature for an hour. The mash tun can be wrapped in a blanket if needed to prevent heat loss. A Decoction type mash can be very useful in this application. The Decoction mash consist of drawing off a 1/3 portion of the thick mash, cooking it separately, reaching the Saccrification rest, then boiling it to gelatinize the starch. You then use the hot decoct to bring the mash up to the next rest step. You pull another 1/3 of the thick mash and repeat the process, bringing it up to the next rest step. You do this two or three times to bring it to the proper Saccrification rests.
The third step in the mashing process is the “Sparge”. Sparging is the process of rinsing out the sugars from the mash grain bed. First you heat clean water to 170°F and you start to drain the mash tun of its sugary liquor, at the same time you add the sparge water to the mash tun to keep the mash floating to prevent stuck mashes and to rinse out the sugars from the grain bed. To get a more concentrated and higher sugar concentration in the fermenter, you can use the “Parti gyle” method to accomplish this.

The “Parti gyle” method was a method used to make strong beers. The first 1/3 of the runoff from the mash tun is collected in the boil kettle/fermenter, and the second 2/3 of the runoff is collected and used as the water for a second mash. The first 1/3 of the runoff contains 50% of the total sugars, the second 2/3 contain the other 50% of the total sugars, plus it contains active enzymes that can be used in converting the next mash. It also adds addition sugars to the next mash sparge. This process can be run indefinitely or on the last mash sparge, collect all the mash runoff into the collection vessel.

Using these methods, you should be able to collect a high gravity wort/wash to improve your distillation efficacy. Like in beer brewing, where as you have Liquid Malt Extract (LME) & Dried Malt Extract (DME) to short cut the mashing process, all 100% corn distillers have DME (corn sugar) & LME (corn syrup) to make their washes with. To use potatoes in making Vodka, boil your potatoes, smash them up and add to the mash using 6 row barley pale/lager malt for its enzymatic conversion power. As stated earlier, any starch source can be converted using 6 row barley pale/lager malt.

To get a more detailed explanation of the "Mashing process", read up on this subject in the many Beer brewing books available.

[woodshed]

I soak my corn for 24 hours, drain and rinse it, then soak again for 24 hours.
From there it goes into trays I made out of 2x2's and window screen for the bottom. Over the screen I place a clean towel then the corn then another towel over the top. Rake it twice a day with my fingers then moisten with a garden sprayer. 5 days and I have shoots around 1 inch long. Corn usually sits in the trays for a day or two before I get a chance to move on to the next step. From there it goes into the smoker to finish drying it out. Smoke it hard and heavy for around an hour. May be different time frame depending on where you live. Pagosa Springs is right where the high desert and the mountains meet so our climate is fairly dry. Pretty low humidity. Never had an issue with mold.[

[Weißer Hund]

Are you using your malted corn in a mash by itself or are you adding other starches to the mash to be converted? I'm interested in how you use your malted corn in your production....

[Weißer Hund]

I saw the you-tube video of the malt tumbler, pretty slick. I'll be building myself one this fall to malt barley, wheat, corn, etc...I can then use this for my likker & beer making endeavors....

[woodshed]

Depends on the recipe. However it is always just a part of my grain bill, typically between 30 and 40 percent.

[woodshed]

Malting tray I use. 4' x 16''. Ten will easily hold 60 lbs. with plenty of room for the corn to breathe. I've gone up to 80 but germinate faster at 60. And yes, I've done the math.
Not as much trouble as you might think to use. 10 minutes a day. Corn massage therapist so my friends say.

[Ferguson]

It seems like people only malt part of the corn in their mashbill, rather then malting it all. Why is this?

[woodshed]

No reason to malt it all. Enough for conversion per recipe is what's needed. Glad to see you are doing research.

[Brendan]

It seems like people only malt part of the corn in their mashbill, rather then malting it all. Why is this?

Every starch source that is malted has a different diastatic power, which is it's ability to convert starches to sugars (or measure of the amount of enzymes contained within to perform the conversion). Depending on their diastatic power, the grain (or corn kernell) will have a measurable ability to convert more than just itself. Which is why malted barley can be added to a corn mash where the corn is not malted...the malted barley has the power to convert the starches to sugar for both itself and the corn.

Depending on the diastatic power, determines how much of the grain bill needs to be malted to perform the conversion for the rest of the mash bill...

Jump in if I missed anything woodshed. Love your work!

[ewa lani]

I was wondering about the natural yeast that may grow with malted corn. I've been looking into using malted corn, barley, and wheat to make a good wheated mash. I don't know where the idea comes from that malted corn is all that's needed to start fermentation. If there is a naturally present yeast, what variety is it? Why do people think it doesn't leave you with a hangover? I use burtons or another clean fermenting yeast with good results. Turbo yeast or distillers yeast leaves a distinct hangover in my opinion.

[woodshed]

Brendan, you are right on track. Keep it up.

[scout]

I was wondering about the natural yeast that may grow with malted corn. I've been looking into using malted corn, barley, and wheat to make a good wheated mash. I don't know where the idea comes from that malted corn is all that's needed to start fermentation. If there is a naturally present yeast, what variety is it? Why do people think it doesn't leave you with a hangover? I use burtons or another clean fermenting yeast with good results. Turbo yeast or distillers yeast leaves a distinct hangover in my opinion.

Yeast is in the air everywhere, making a malt out in the open air or in a room that gets outside air a lot will attract the yeast cells and they will settle in and start working slowly. when you add the dried, ground malt to the mash, it will start working in a day or so. Yeast is, in my own opinion, for those who are in a hurry to start their run. No one in my family (I'm the fourth generation) ever used yeast in a mash and the only times I've used it was for sugar mash, (rum, and burning alcohol), all of my drinking runs are of wort that has not had any yeast added to it. BTW, if you want a great yeast addition, use about 1/4 of a beer, left to warm to room temp to start your yeast in. This works for dry yeast as well as cake yeast. It gives the yeast good things to eat and multiply with while you are getting the mash together.