Anti Fungal and insecticides

[Xnerd]

Dnder,

The lowest temp I can achieve in my dehydrator is 74 degrees f
I this too high in your opinion? I keep reading mixed data on this.. No one seems to agree


Most describe higher temps like 90 -120. And again this is home beer brewers so god and you only know what is appropriate for us

[Uncle Jemima]

So after they're dried. Will you just handle roughly to remove sprouts and roots then sift them out to separate or pour from bucket to bucket in front of a fan? Wondering how labor intensive it's going to be.

My local feed store has barley so I've considered trying to malt my own. Still waiting to see how my corn malting project goes before I decide how far I want to go with that side of the hobby.

Keep posting updates as you go.

Thanks.

[Xnerd]

Well When i tried to malt corn the rootlets and sprout just about disappeared.
I just set up a fan blowing across the 36 x 36 tray that I had the corn on and tossed it around with my hands until there was just grain left.
I did this in my unfinished basement

The only advice that I can give out for certain is make sure that you gave a large tray of some sort.
As I posted above, my wheat went from 2 inches to 7 inches deep in 3 - 4 days. I like to use these ultra cheap washing machine pans.
I get them at home improvement stores. (dont know if they are nation chain or not) there is a company called Menards where they have these for like 10 bucks of something.
I am going to get a couple more tonight just to spread this stuff thinner to fan dry.

They are quite handy.
My house smells awesome right now due to the fans blowing the smell of the grain everywhere.
My GF actually like this so thats a bonus for once

I am going to try feed corn again using this method. I think a good trick is to allow water to trickle into the buckets!
Keeps everything nice and clean.

[Xnerd]

correction. My dehydrator is only able to go as low as 88f.

Now I have read a few articles that state 90-120f...
I am only drying some of the grain this way so that I can relieve the couch of some of its mass.
New word "couch" = grain bed.

[Dnderhead]

your dehydrator is fine.drying at lower temps. saves the enzymes.this makes a light malt.

[Xnerd]

im drying the bulk of the grain with a fan due to the fact that there is not a lot of room in the dehydrator.
the fan is not doing a hell of a lot..

i realized that i have no way of knowing when it is dried enough.. i did not get an accurate starting weight....

is there any way of telling?
i know that at 70 degrees the moisture will only drop so far... 12 % i think

[Dnderhead]

malted grain should be "crunchy" not chewy

[Xnerd]

The dehydrator grains are drying well and should be good by morning.
it will take a few days for the rest for sure.

i guess i am worried that i will dry to much but from what i have read that is not very likely

ill go by the crunch, thanks dnder

[DHS]

I live in the U.S.A.. Most corn grown in the fields here today is not suitable for fermenting. I burn corn in the winter for heat. Most corn today is not suitable for heating because of toxic off gassing. I would never think of fermenting and then drinking this grain.

[MadMasher]

Would you eat meat from a cow which has been fed corn or eat an egg from a chicken that has been fed corn?

[Xnerd]

Ok so the dehydrator situation...

The grains are crunchy completey but the plump little acrospire did not completely wither away.
So if you pull one off it still contains moisture.

I absolutely do not understand how this is possible as as the grain it self is crunch to the point that I can crumble it.
I dont want to take the dehydration to far. and was thinking about setting up another cool air drying to finish this off.
My goal is to do this whole process at the coolest temps possible as I have read that every degree that you increase during drying, you add flavors but remove small amounts of Diastasis.

Later this afternoon I am building a dehydrator cabinet to hold larger amounts of grain.
Im building a feedback loop for a heater I have so that I can control the temps nice.
If I can find a large enough solid state relay that is...

Maybe it would be better just to out a heater on a potentiometer and test it rather then going complex.

LOL i get carried away

[Uncle Jemima]

I live in the U.S.A.. Most corn grown in the fields here today is not suitable for fermenting. I burn corn in the winter for heat. Most corn today is not suitable for heating because of toxic off gassing. I would never think of fermenting and then drinking this grain.

Why?

[Xnerd]

yeah I dont understand that statement....
Corn is a staple feed so are you a vegetarian?

I have found out that for the most part the treatments that are used on seed corn are water soluble and come off in the soak.
One farm using toxic seed would destroy the water table for the whole county. At least that is why it was described to me.
Most anti fungal commercially available are slightly toxic but again water soluble. They are in very low concentrations and I am told would not allow fermentation if they were in concentrations that were not food safe.

[Xnerd]

Decided that I am not going with a tumbler just yet so I am in the middle of building a dehydrator 30 x 30 x 4 feet in height.
I have a nice little fan already built in, Need to find a where is put my big potentiometer.

I am going to need three temperature probes to gauge temps at different spots as to not over heat the thing.
At least a first. I plan on staggering the shelves as I think that the bottom will heat to much.

We will see.

I post some pictures when im done.. GOOD GOD IS LUMBER CRAP anymore!@!!!

I couldnt find a straight 2x4 to save my life!

[Xnerd]

For our purposes, do the roots and acrospire have a negative impact on our final product?
I am having a hell of a time as the roots and sprout do not want to let go of the grain.

perhaps I should have built that tumbler after all.

I hear people make green mash and simple grind everything up....
Is there any reason that *for now* I can leave as is and use roots and all?

Dying to test this out.

[Xnerd]

Ok so I built a tumbler out of a 30 gallon drum.

Hope this knocks the roots off!

I cant seem to find an answer to my question regarding taste.
I understand that "green" gives off a slightly different taste.
Im just wondering if there are any negatives regarding "dried" roots and acrospire.

I could omit a lot of the process...

[Xnerd]

Ok so Im not too pleased with the results of my first test with the home malted wheat.

I cooked 2 lbs of corn in one gallon water until it thickened good. I tried to keep it at heat for as long as I could but it gelatinized real real fast and got very thick.
I let it cool until it was about 151 degrees F. I tossed in 1/2 lb of he malted wheat. It thinned right out..
I stirred it over the next two hours every 15 minutes. I got real sweet but never passed the starch test.....

The one thing that I might have done wrong was to find about 3 lbs at once time and put it in a baggy.
After I mashed in the malt, I noticed a lot of the flour from the grain was at the bottom of the bag. .
Perhaps I should do this again and this time grind only 1/2 pound...

I did not take a hydrometer reading yet. But like I say still starches there...

Does anyone know a better way to test the DP of home malted grain?

Thanks

[Xnerd]

Ok so I am passing the starch test after grinding 1/2 lb of my home made wheat malt and mashing it into 2 lbs of corn.

The problem with the first batch must have been that I was grabbing handfuls out of a three lbd bag that a lot of the floury inside of the wheat had settled to the bottom.
Also I think that I may have gotten some suspended corn meal in the spoon.

Next I will try 1/4 lb of wheat malt for another 2 lb corn to 1 gallon water.
I will see where conversion and gravity take a nose dive so that I can formulate a recipe more accurately.

I have the other 25 lbs of wheat sprouted with acrospire 2 x grain length.
I would like to try one test green but I not sure the ration to use with this much heavier moist grain.
I think that the moisture content is around 45%, so I think that I will try 1/2 lb of green to = about a 1/4 lab of dried.
In theory it should have a slightly higher DP than that of the dried so we will see how it turns out.

I hope that all of this helps someone.

[Dnderhead]

green malt will have more of a earthy flavor , more DP.
the roots will attribute more protein,this leaves beer cloudy but this does not bother if distilling.

[Xnerd]

Thank you dnder
I am going to try this in the morning.
I have decided to let the sprouts go another 12 hours so that it will match up to what I have been reading.
They grew a bit faster than Ideal but I was able to keep the temp way down on them.
The average is I would say 1/4 longer than the grains so I think i am safe to leave it go some.
Very much looking forward to the green malt attempt.

Do this a gallon at a time has helped me gauge this a lot better.
I will still maintain that so far I get better and faster conversion using 2 row store bought, but there is not a whole hell of a lot difference.
The wheat definitely gets the job done.

I just got another bag of feed corn and im trying this same malting method with trickling water to constantly clean the grain.
Im curious if kept cool and slow will corn get a higher than typical DP.
I guess for my purpose 30-35 is all I will need so it doesn't really matter I guess.

after the green malt tomorrow I will have 5 gallons from these test batches.
My latest test did not convert at 1/4 lb to 2 corn., it got sweet but not overly.
If I can get malting down, It will be a money saver. one 5th the cost of store bought.
too bad there is no where to get barely around me. I would do that as well.

Im really having a lot of fun doing this. I guess that is what its all about.

thanks again

[Dnderhead]

corn you want sprouts about 1-2 in (25-50mm) other grain the length of grain or so the sprouts gust peek out.

[Eady Creek]

Go get some popcorn. Sams has 50 pound bags. With so many pushing organic now a days. I'm surprised you can't find any. I have about 7 places I can get organic grains from around here. And the best places are out in the middle of nowhere. You could always order it online.

[Xnerd]

corn you want sprouts about 1-2 in (25-50mm) other grain the length of grain or so the sprouts gust peek out.

actually you can go a couple of times the grains length.
this is how they do distillery malt. its called a long malt.

its not commonly done for beer making due to the extra protein.

Didn't mean to sound so matter of factly, I was actually quoting you from a previous post.
I read this and was repeating it..

Hope I did no offend you. I know you know a hell of a lot about this subject.
After rereading my post it sounds like I was being a know it all.

http://books.google.com/books?id=tpE7AA ... th&f=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Check out the bottom of this paragraph.

[Xnerd]

Hey I just did my green malt test!

My mash was thick, almost a block of corn, but it was so close to mash temp that I did not sacrifice any malt to thin it.
I hit 152 mashed in .75 lbs of green wheat malt (I figure that would be less than a half a lb if dried) and instantly thinned the mess into a water like consistency!
I have never seen it thin so fast. ONE stir around the pot and it was liquid! I dont know If i should attribute this to the "green" factor or the fact that I allowed the wheat to over modify.

I have no doubt that I could have used half of this much.

By the way those little slushy makers called the Ninja do a real nice job chopping this green malt.
If you have ever seen steel cut oats, that is how it ends up with a couple of quick turns.
Blades are very sharp and dont turn it into mush.

[Dnderhead]

"its not commonly done for beer making due to the extra protein."
No its not done in beer because as grain sprouts it uses up the starch,
less starch, less sugar, less alcohol.the extra protein comes from the roots/sprouts
if you remove them then no protein problem.
now if gain gits light struck when malting and produce chlorophyll then you wash/mash mite have a "band aide" taste.

[Rivver]

Hey Xnerd, if you know someone out in the country that has corn fields, you can ask to pick some corn right before they harvest. Just tell them you are feeding the squirrels or something. If you don't know anyone, just stop and ask a farmer. Offer him a bit of money for a bit of corn, $20 dollars would get you quite a bit of corn, or it should figguring at $6-$8 a bushel. Course you would have to shell it when you got home.

[Xnerd]

Hey Xnerd, if you know someone out in the country that has corn fields, you can ask to pick some corn right before they harvest. Just tell them you are feeding the squirrels or something. If you don't know anyone, just stop and ask a farmer. Offer him a bit of money for a bit of corn, $20 dollars would get you quite a bit of corn, or it should figguring at $6-$8 a bushel. Course you would have to shell it when you got home.

There is a old steam tractor deal here every summer and there is a guy that that sells those old hand crank shellers.
This coming fall I am going to go to do just that. In the mean time my PHD friend of mine has stated that the amount of and water solubility of the chemicals used on seed corn is negligible.
He said that washing the stuff real good should remove anything,

Now having said that, I am going to research this more as I don't ever trust just one opinion.
I have the friends that do biology for dupont's Pioneer Hi-Bred. They do Corn research for the most part in Iowa.
I have repaired a few of their incubators in the past.

Im going to touch base with them before tying the Bin-Run sprouting.

[Xnerd]

"its not commonly done for beer making due to the extra protein."
No its not done in beer because as grain sprouts it uses up the starch,
less starch, less sugar, less alcohol.the extra protein comes from the roots/sprouts
if you remove them then no protein problem.
now if gain gits light struck when malting and produce chlorophyll then you wash/mash mite have a "band aide" taste.

I get a lot of bad info from other message boards. I had read through a few posts where a new guy had some distillers malted barley and asked if it would be ok to use in place of the standard two row. Everyone said sure it would work but due to the addition of extra protein they would end up with cloudy beer. Several people replayed to him in this fashion so i assumed that the protein accumulated in the kernel as well.

Thanks for clearing that point up for me.

I have kept this in complete darkness for better part of two weeks. If I could figure out a way to keep this stuff cooler maybe I could make it three.
Although after todays test, I am extremely happy with the results. I got total conversion in under and hour, a 2 inch deep stand of clear juice on top, and sugar crystallizing on the sides!
I broke my hydrometer AGAIN, so a reading will have to wait until later tonight or the next batch.

[Dnderhead]

much of the grain thats used for feed is high in protein ,this is the way its bread.
grain used for flour not as much.the corn thats used for hominy is also low in protein.
and is what there talking about when the old guys speak of "white corn" most of this corn is hard to fiend.from my understanding its still grown to a limited amount in the southwest US.
one thing to watch out for is some of the GMO is or will be "terminal" this will not sprout.
there breading so others can reproduce it.and farmers will have to keep buying seed.

[Xnerd]

Yeah The Jiffy company and Kellogg's buys up all of the food grade high starch stuff that is grown out be me.
I am going to have to call in some favors if I am going to get my hands on some.
But on the other hand the grain elevators sell the non GMO seed, or at least they did a couple years ago.

I have some friends in dusty places out here so I need to talk to them soon.
Again I can get Bin Run corn that has been treated but I want more info before I trust cleaning it.