Corn whisky recipe?

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CoopsOz
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Corn whisky recipe?

Post by CoopsOz » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:15 am

I found this at yahoo distillers, so props to the author. Does anyone see any dramas with this?....I intend on giving it a crack tomorrow (time permitting).
Here is a good bourbon recipe for 8 Gallons with the appropriate
metric measures:

4.5K Cracked corn (unmalted)
1.8K Cracked rye (unmalted)
1.8K Cracked malted 6-row barley.

Boil corn in 30L of water for 2 hours. Reduce temp to 37C, add rye
and malted barley. Hold at 37C for 20-30 minutes. Raise temp to 65-
65C and hold for 1-1.5 hours stirring occasionally. Raise temp to
73C to drain grains.

Reduce temp to 29C and check SG. SG should be around .068. Pitch
yeast, and whatever nutrients you usually use (a jar or two of
molasses - or treacle - adds a really nice touch and provides loads
of nutrients).

The wort should finish out at around 9% alcohol. You should be able
to collect about a gallon @75%.

I would recommend putting some on oak at around 65% for a few months,
after which, you will have some pretty high-class bourbon on your
hands.
It is most absurdly said, in popular language, of any man, that he is disguised in liquor; for, on the contrary, most men are disguised by sobriety. ~Thomas de Quincy, Confessions of an English Opium-Eater, 1856

goose eye
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Post by goose eye » Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:34 am

is that
9 lb corn 3 1/2 rye 3 1/2 barley an dont mater it you use molasses.
what kinda outfit he cookin with. is that low wines.

6 of 150 proof to the barel took down to 9 + holdin a bead.
these boys i no outfit cant touch it without addin suger


so im tole

zymos
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Post by zymos » Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:47 am

I'm not sure if you'd necessarily need the last part of the mash:
"Raise temp to 73C to drain grains. " The only thing in there with husks is the malted barley, so I'd think you could ferment on the grains if you wanted to.

CoopsOz
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Post by CoopsOz » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:25 pm

Thanks Goose & Zymos, I'll take the advice on board. I will make sure that I take a proper O.G. and establish how much sugar is needed.
It is most absurdly said, in popular language, of any man, that he is disguised in liquor; for, on the contrary, most men are disguised by sobriety. ~Thomas de Quincy, Confessions of an English Opium-Eater, 1856

GingerBreadMan
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Post by GingerBreadMan » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:09 pm

Never did a grain mash, but I would aerate it before pitching the yeast. Didn't see that step.
I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it left.

CoopsOz
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Post by CoopsOz » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:13 pm

Thanks all, one more question. I'm at the crux, the corn has been boiling for a couple of hours and seems well and truly cooked. In the original post, the recipe calls for a 2 stage mashing....the first at 37D C for 1/2 hour or so and then the 1 1/2 hrs at 65D C. Is the first (37D C) necessary? Can it be done the other way around? It seems a waste to cool down to 37D and then reheat back up to 65D.

Very keen on an answer as the process is past the point of no return. :D
It is most absurdly said, in popular language, of any man, that he is disguised in liquor; for, on the contrary, most men are disguised by sobriety. ~Thomas de Quincy, Confessions of an English Opium-Eater, 1856

GingerBreadMan
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Post by GingerBreadMan » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:50 pm

I never made a grain mash, but I questioned that part in my mind as well. But I thought that was the 'secret ingredient' to the recipe. :D

From what I read, the higher temps (71 C) are for the liquifaction phase (converting long chain starches to shorter chains) of mashing, the starch conversion phase (starch to sugar) happens at 60-66C. Unless I missed something reading Ian Smiley's Making pure corn whiskey, there is no step going from 71C down to 37C and then back up to 65C.
I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it left.

CoopsOz
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Post by CoopsOz » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:11 pm

Thanks GBM.....I went back and read the part on mashing in Ian Smiley's Making pure corn whiskey. And I agree, it is a mystery step....I'm not gonna bother with it. For some reason I always forget to check the book when searching for info, it has been proven time and time again that everything one needs to know is in it.
It is most absurdly said, in popular language, of any man, that he is disguised in liquor; for, on the contrary, most men are disguised by sobriety. ~Thomas de Quincy, Confessions of an English Opium-Eater, 1856

CoopsOz
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Post by CoopsOz » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:52 pm

For anyone who is interested......it's been 1 hr since the malted barley was introduced. It is still showing starch with the iodine test but it is starting to feel sticky.
It is most absurdly said, in popular language, of any man, that he is disguised in liquor; for, on the contrary, most men are disguised by sobriety. ~Thomas de Quincy, Confessions of an English Opium-Eater, 1856

zymos
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Post by zymos » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:59 am

Coops-that recipe kind of looks like it was written by a beer brewer.

There can be fairly complicated mash schedules, to activate various enzymes in the malt that break down proteins, and starches in different sizes.

Much of which is not that important in a wash. The main consideration is to make as much fermentable sugar as possible. When using unmalted grain like this recipe, there are really only 2 points you need to hit: gelatinizing temps, and saccharification. What most people seem to do around here is mash at the lower end of the scale, which makes it more fermentable and keeps the enzymes "alive" the longest, so they can keep chewing at those starches.

Uncle Jesse
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yeh

Post by Uncle Jesse » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:27 am

Here's a method I've used which is close.

Take your corn and crack it. Boil the hell out of it in a mixture of backset and water for 2 hours or more until it's fully dispersed. Once it's pretty well done I remove it from heat and let it set overnight. You'll have a mash with a bunch of gelatinous starches in it.

Bring it back up to 155F or whatever you prefer, then add your malted grains, the temp should drop a bit when you do this. The conversion should start pretty quickly and your mash will thin out.

I let it cool itself off overnight and usually wait for some fermentation to begin off the natural airborne yeast. Then I pitch in my yeast and ferment on the grains.

Distill it, take your boiling backset and start again.
If only the best birds sang, the woods would be silent.

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Post by Usge » Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:16 pm

I'm still working on my UJSM but starting to play around with some of this stuff.

The first thing I'm doing is trying to malt corn. I've got some organic dent corn I'm soaking right now. Just a couple of handsfull. I figure I'll keep playing around with small amounts till I get it figured out.

But, I'm wondering...if I manage to successfully malt some corn, dry it, knock the roots off and grind it.....can I just add it to my UJSM? Or should I just wait until I try a cooked mash? AFter it's dried, will it keep for a while?

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more

Post by Uncle Jesse » Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:08 pm

It will keep a while if you dry it. Don't crack until you're ready to use. Honestly it's overkill for a simple uncooked mash. Save that nice malt for your cooked corn mash and use it in your malted grains.
If only the best birds sang, the woods would be silent.

CoopsOz
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Post by CoopsOz » Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:25 pm

Well, once again it didn't work. I'm yet to measure the O.G but it doesn't taste sweet and the iodine is showing starch. It is still like a thick porridge with a inch or so of liquid on top. It seems the grain has soaked up most of the original 30L.....I'm gonna have to get my hands dirty and try and squeeze the water out. It will definitely require added sugar to make it worthwhile. I might get lucky next time, I ain't giving up. :evil:
It is most absurdly said, in popular language, of any man, that he is disguised in liquor; for, on the contrary, most men are disguised by sobriety. ~Thomas de Quincy, Confessions of an English Opium-Eater, 1856

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Post by Old_Blue » Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:41 pm

Can it be done the other way around? It seems a waste to cool down to 37D and then reheat back up to 65D.
Can't do it backwards. Remember your are dealing with proteins and enzymes. Once you heat up to a certain point the proteins are activated and can't be undone. It would be like cooking an egg at a certain temp and then letting cool down and it returning to raw, won't happen.

That lower temp is like a scarification rest which converts certain sugars with certain enzymes at that level and then to higher temps to get the rest. This is done with certain beer styles. Once a particular temp is reached those specific enzymes are through.

All that being said, I don't believe with this recipe the lower temp is necessary, just add the malt @ 155f and it should work fine. Stay below 165f after you add the malt.

Add more water to compensate for the grain soakage. You can always boil it down to get the SG up.
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mbasketcase13
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Post by mbasketcase13 » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:14 pm

CoopsOz wrote:Well, once again it didn't work. I'm yet to measure the O.G but it doesn't taste sweet and the iodine is showing starch. It is still like a thick porridge with a inch or so of liquid on top. It seems the grain has soaked up most of the original 30L.....I'm gonna have to get my hands dirty and try and squeeze the water out. It will definitely require added sugar to make it worthwhile. I might get lucky next time, I ain't giving up. :evil:
sounds like the same thing that happened to mine but i will try again, each time i try i find a mistake i made the time before it's starting to warm up here some i;ve started three batches of different mashes i can see i'll be busy. :D Oh the pain of all this hard work. :roll:
remember the 7 p's
prior proper planning prevents piss poor
performance
semper fi

CoopsOz
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Post by CoopsOz » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:11 pm

I just finished cleaning up the mess I made the other day, man, this stuff smells like arse! I am gonna have to have a shower to get the smell off my hands. It is that bad that I can't dump it in my bin....it is triple bagged and I take it to the industrial bin at work. BTW, it did form a cap and start to ferment but there was hardly any liquid in it.
It is most absurdly said, in popular language, of any man, that he is disguised in liquor; for, on the contrary, most men are disguised by sobriety. ~Thomas de Quincy, Confessions of an English Opium-Eater, 1856

Old_Blue
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Post by Old_Blue » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:16 pm

smells like arse


Could be on the right track...might have give up too soon

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3584
Fire is the devil’s only friend - Don McLean
Jump in where you can and hang on - Brisco Darling

CoopsOz
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Post by CoopsOz » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:38 pm

I saw that too, but I couldn't have this stuff in my garage.....I can't express how much it stank. If thats the smell from a real whiskey, I'm sticking with UJSM.
It is most absurdly said, in popular language, of any man, that he is disguised in liquor; for, on the contrary, most men are disguised by sobriety. ~Thomas de Quincy, Confessions of an English Opium-Eater, 1856

Old_Blue
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Post by Old_Blue » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:46 pm

No pain..no grain..er..gain :D
Fire is the devil’s only friend - Don McLean
Jump in where you can and hang on - Brisco Darling

zymos
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Post by zymos » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:27 am

CoopsOz wrote:I saw that too, but I couldn't have this stuff in my garage.....I can't express how much it stank. If thats the smell from a real whiskey, I'm sticking with UJSM.
If it smelled that bad, you had a bacterial contamination.
Don't give up though!

Was this your first experience mashing? Are you fairly certain you held the mash at proper temps? Was your malt reasonably fresh? Did it sit around too long before fermentation kicked off?

I'd try again, with something a bit more simple: flaked wheat and barley malt. I add the flakes to water at 170F, stir well and wait till it drops to 152F. Add malt, stir well, and cover your mash vessel with a few blankets. Stir every hour or so, and let it go for at least a couple of hours, then remove blankets and let it cool to pitching temps.

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Post by Hawke » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:26 am

Some interesting reading. Back to the original post, the recipie looks a lot like the one I've seen posted as being the mash bill for JD Black label.

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Post by Old Goat » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:42 pm

I pretty much do the same, I cook the corn until it thickens the wash, then I let the temp go down to around 160 F and add the malted barley, (I use Golden Promise 2 row) and some flaked oats. I let this simmer until the wash thins out. I also add some sugar and molasses, and my secret ingredients. :) I let the wash cool and top the wash with Whiskey Yeast with AG and let it work until it is done. After distillation, I end up with some good tasting ol time corn whiskey, which is what I am after. I have some recipes for smoothing it out, but, we all have that, as I have neither the time or facilities to age it. I am fairly new to this, but I always follow the axiom, Keep It Simple Stupid. This is not rocket science. Good Luck and Happy Distilling to all.

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