My 4th attempt at AG

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Fiddleford
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My 4th attempt at AG

Post by Fiddleford »

Hello I have tried AG before and have had some success but it would either be to low a SG or to many unfermentable sugars so I'm trying at it again with a whole new malt, this stuff had a good ratio, cant say how good but they all float almost and instead of directly oven drying I put it over a box fan a few days till I felt it was done and put it in the oven at 200 for 20 mins a half inch thick then throwing it back on the fan, I tested it with a half cup of the malt and it converted nicely.

I made up 10 pounds of this stuff and I'm wanting to do a AG all barley mash on the grain

I ground up the 10 pounds but couldn't make the wash then my friend had a couple seizures at my house that day so I had to wait a couple more day's before I could do anything. I ground up 10 pounds of unmalted barley after doing some quick roasting to clean the particles off it, added it to a BOP with 28 litres of water at 200F to soften the starches and let it cool slowly to just above 150.

I then added in the 10 pounds of malt which mate the kitchen smell just lovely like peanut butter put the lid on and waited a few hours checked with iodine and still had some left so I heated it back up a little while stirring put the lid on and checked it again no blackness from the iodine, I couldn't see the colour much but it darkened the samples slightly, but not significantly.

I have no hydrometer but when it dry's on my hand it leaves a rather sticky residue and it has a partially sweet taste. Sugars from malt shouldn't be to sweet anyway but I'm getting a hydrometer tomorrow and I have no reason to alter the state its in so I'll get a gravity reading tomorrow.

According to the PPG equation it should have 700 points of sugars if it were to all convert properly I'm not to confident on that but I have heard of people pulling off a good 30 gallon mash from 30 pounds of grains. I have my fingers crossed.

The grain used was 6 row barley from the feed store, its very consistent in being that one grain. the reason this post is long is because it took a few days to wright it out. I don't think I'm missing any details cant say what the ph is haven't gotten around to getting a meter but I'm almost there but our water is between 6..9 and 7.2. if something is wrong about my PPG math please correct me. If I get full conversion then I'll be glad then I can dilute to 15 gallons of water, if my PPG is right but my yield is lower on the hydrometer then it must be the grain I'm using. local guy said you get 35 PPG for the barley at our feed store so I'm relying on that. Well I hop you had a good read and can help fix my errors in the process. I'll put up what the SG is when I find that out I just wanted to put this up just in case my computer acts like a prick.
Rye whisky rye whisky oh dont let me down
Gunna have me a drink then gambol around
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still_stirrin
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Re: My 4th attempt at AG

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Fiddleford wrote:...10 pounds of unmalted barley after doing some quick roasting to clean the particles off it, added it to a BOP with 28 litres of water at 200F to soften the starches and let it cool slowly to just above 150.
This addition will completely denature the enzymes in the barley, so not much potential sugar from it without additional enzymes.
Fiddleford wrote:...then added in the 10 pounds of malt...put the lid on and waited a few hours checked with iodine and ...heated it back up a little while stirring put the lid on....
Hopefully you didn’t heat it up too hot (less than 150*F/65.6*C) so the enzymes aren’t denatured. You’re trying to convert starches to fermentable sugars so you need those enzymes active to work for you.
Fiddleford wrote:...I have no hydrometer but when it dry's on my hand it leaves a rather sticky residue and it has a partially sweet taste. Sugars from malt shouldn't be to sweet anyway but I'm getting a hydrometer tomorrow...
You need to have the right equipment when attempting an all grain brew. Gotta’ have the right tools for the job...
Fiddleford wrote:...I have heard of people pulling off a good 30 gallon mash from 30 pounds of grains. I have my fingers crossed...
You’ll need more than crossed fingers. The potential from 30 lb. barley in 30 gallons is only about 1.025-1.030 OG, if you’re good. Typically, we recommend 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 lb per gallon, and that assumes you’ve got efficient processes. Some here actually shoot for 2 3/4 to 3 lb per gallon when using a high ratio of corn, which can be tricky to extract efficiently.
Fiddleford wrote:...I don't think I'm missing any details cant say what the ph is haven't gotten around to getting a meter but I'm almost there but our water is between 6.9 and 7.2.
pH won’t be a problem with an all grain recipe because you’be got enough material to buffer any acids produced during the ferment. Typically, it’s the sugar washes that have a pH crash, not grain recipes.
Fiddleford wrote:...if something is wrong about my PPG math please correct me. If I get full conversion then...I can dilute to 15 gallons of water, if my PPG is right but my yield is lower on the hydrometer then it must be the grain I'm using.
Local guy said you get 35 PPG for the barley at our feed store so I'm relying on that...I'll put up what the SG is when I find that out I...
You won’t need to dilute your wort because I suspect it is very low OG already. A brewer’s hydrometer would help you measure your success (or not) early enough to make adjustments to the recipe.

And to that end, I suggest sticking to a Tried & True recipe “to the letter” until you know you know what you’re doing. And that includes fully understanding the brewing processes, your equipment, and your “brewhouse efficiency”. All these factors will help you with recipe formulation. Add to that...there are several homebrew calculators online which will help you with the extract calculations for when you are experienced enough to venture beyond the T&T forum.

Good luck (again) with this endeavor...I hope it works for you. All grain is a lot of work and if the results are below satisfaction, it is discouraging. But, it is one way to learn...”trial & error”, even if you seem to be stuck in the rut of errors.
ss
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still_stirrin
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Re: My 4th attempt at AG

Post by still_stirrin »

p.s. - I think you’ve misunderstood how to calculate mash potential using the points per pound per gallon method. This link describes it for you. Please take the time to read it carefully.
http://www.howtobrew.com/book/section-2 ... efficiency" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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Re: My 4th attempt at AG

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still_stirrin wrote:
Fiddleford wrote:...10 pounds of unmalted barley after doing some quick roasting to clean the particles off it, added it to a BOP with 28 litres of water at 200F to soften the starches and let it cool slowly to just above 150.
This addition will completely denature the enzymes in the barley, so not much potential sugar from it without additional enzymes.
ss
ss ... think Fiddle was talking about his unmalted barley .... before he added the malt ... would have thought it was OK at that stage
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still_stirrin
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Re: My 4th attempt at AG

Post by still_stirrin »

Yummyrum wrote:
still_stirrin wrote:
Fiddleford wrote:...10 pounds of unmalted barley after doing some quick roasting to clean the particles off it, added it to a BOP with 28 litres of water at 200F to soften the starches and let it cool slowly to just above 150.
This addition will completely denature the enzymes in the barley, so not much potential sugar from it without additional enzymes.
ss
ss ... think Fiddle was talking about his unmalted barley .... before he added the malt ... would have thought it was OK at that stage
No need to blanche the unmalted barley. Just add it with the malted at a strike of 155*F, or less. Putting the unmalted in at 200*F strike will denature the enzymes in that portion, meaning it will rely more on the malt for conversion. That’s what I said....
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Re: My 4th attempt at AG

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OK as I understand it you took 10 pounds of barley and tried to malt it yourself then cooked it at 200 degrees. This killed all the enzymes in it.
You added 10 pounds of malted barley to this but don't mention the temps that you mashed at.
So we have a total of 20 pounds of grain and 28 liters of water ( about 7.5 gallons) With a potential of 700ppg total then with a 75% conversion rate this would be about 525 PPG available for fermentation or about a 1.065 Starting gravity.
If you are going to all the work of malting your barley don't cook it at 200 degrees. Grind it and add it to the 10 pounds of malted barley you already have and mash the entire grain bill at 148 degrees.
If you want to use unmalted grain and malted grain as a grain bill , Simply grind and cook the unmalted grain to release the starch and cool to mash temp and add the malted grain to it to convert starches to sugar. Make sure your malted grain has enough diastatic power to convert the starches from the unmalted grain, This should be noted on the grain packaging itself. You need a minimum of 30 points of diastatic power per pound of grain for a successful conversion, I like to use a bit more for insurance. Typically Briess 2 row malted barley has about 140 points of diastatic power per pound of grain.So the 10 pounds is more than adequate for a 20 pound grain bill.
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Re: My 4th attempt at AG

Post by Pikey »

still_stirrin wrote:
Yummyrum wrote:
still_stirrin wrote:
Fiddleford wrote:...10 pounds of unmalted barley after doing some quick roasting to clean the particles off it, added it to a BOP with 28 litres of water at 200F to soften the starches and let it cool slowly to just above 150.
This addition will completely denature the enzymes in the barley, so not much potential sugar from it without additional enzymes.
ss
ss ... think Fiddle was talking about his unmalted barley .... before he added the malt ... would have thought it was OK at that stage
No need to blanche the unmalted barley. Just add it with the malted at a strike of 155*F, or less. Putting the unmalted in at 200*F strike will denature the enzymes in that portion, meaning it will rely more on the malt for conversion. That’s what I said....
Don't wish to appear difficult here, but as I understand it - unmalted barley does not have any enzymes, that is what the malting process produces when the seed is germinated, so that the growing plant can access the sugars made from the starch by the enzymes. Thus as long as the malt is not heated too high, it should be ok and will convert the starch from the unmalted grain as well. That seems to be confirmed, since the iodine test shows no residual starch. (No "black" ) so good conversion seems to have taken place.

[Edit - Fiddleford - I think what seems to be happening here is that many in the USA seem to use the term "Barley" when they are referring to malted barley, which we in the uk often refer to as just "Malt". So some seem to be reading your post and not differentiating between the two types of grain you used. - As I think you said elsewhere, lots of different terms in this hobby and they don't always mean the same to every reader ! :) ]
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Re: My 4th attempt at AG

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I mentioned I added the unmalted barley in at 200 F to soften the starches let it cool for a few hours then when the grain reached 150 I added the malted barley which cooled it down significantly by what you say temps at 150 F will denature the enzymes needed to produce fermentable sugars which means I would have to let it sit at a even lower temperature all night while repeatedly reheating. I know the barley is good because I've talked with a member that lives in my home town that uses the same stuff. I won't say his name for in respect to him. if there is a number to let the brew sit at for fermentable sugars please tell me. If how I stated this sounds rude its not intentional I'm just trying to be as specific as possible
Rye whisky rye whisky oh dont let me down
Gunna have me a drink then gambol around
Here's some fiddle music
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Re: My 4th attempt at AG

Post by Fiddleford »

just under 5 gals of 1.043 OG no spargeing it seems for a 10 gallon metric mash I would need 40 pounds at the rate of my conversion. what I may do is pull off the wort from the grain ferment that for a AG whiskey then use the grain to make 15 gallons of sugarhead.
Rye whisky rye whisky oh dont let me down
Gunna have me a drink then gambol around
Here's some fiddle music
Pt1
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Fiddleford
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Re: My 4th attempt at AG

Post by Fiddleford »

I guess it picked up a lacto infection, it smells sweet and candyish. I'll save some in a jar and run it use whats in the jar as a culture for further ferments
Rye whisky rye whisky oh dont let me down
Gunna have me a drink then gambol around
Here's some fiddle music
Pt1
Pt2
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