Fermenting on the grain

[janho]

Something I realized, I fermented a 80% corn 20% wheat wash (saccharification done with enzymes) on the grains. The result from distilling with my T500 had a very very butterscotch aroma and a sweetness like I’ve never tasted before.

I did exactly the same wash recipe but did not ferment on the grains and absolutely no butterscotch aroma and less sweetness was the result.

Has anyone tried fermenting on the grains with barley for a Scottish whisky? and if so, what other aroma and taste notes did you get?

[kiwi Bruce]

Has anyone tried fermenting on the grains with barley for a Scottish whisky?

The reason why this isn't done...as the wash ferments the alcohol that's produced dissolves tannins from the barley hulls, they distill over and concentrate in the spirit...I've been told that they taste very bitter and earthy, like wet mud...so I never tried it, by you can...give it a go, maybe a very small batch.

[Expat]

I've done all malted barely and malted/regular batches and never tasted anything like that, all were fermented on the grain.

Some other criteria which is required?

[kiwi Bruce]

I've done all malted barely and malted/regular batches and never tasted anything like that, all were fermented on the grain.

Some other criteria which is required?

so what were your results?

[Expat]

Nice smooth AG taste, malt came over, no real taste of hay/grassiness I've heard described.

[kiwi Bruce]

foaming issues?

[Expat]

Yeah some. More than sugar heads, less than molasses runs. Nothing notable.

[Swedish Pride]

+1 on what expat says.
I always ferment on the grain, works a treat.

[Old_Brian]

I did a batch of AG barley that had 20% peated grains. I fermented that on the grain, because I hoped to get more peat flavors out. Trying to keep the mess under control in the kitchen while racking the wash was a pain (Got to find a better way than using a ladle to get soaked grains into a bag to allow the wash to drain out. Bag won't take weight of all grains, so after first amount is emptied from the bag, its just grains everywhere).

For me It's worth the effort, I got much better malty flavor than other AG washes, so have adopted this as part of my regular process (When I get a better workspace sorted I'll figure out some way of draining the grains better. Stronger bag and a hoist maybe)

+1 on what expat said, I found foaming is a bigger issue with these batches, luckily I have two elements in my T500 pot still (1500W and 500W) so could run with just the 1500W for the stripping runs, to prevent it puking.

[8Ball]

Nice smooth AG taste, malt came over, no real taste of hay/grassiness I've heard described.

I’ve done an Irish style all grain with malted and unmalted barley. It has the grassy taste that I call ‘green.’
As it ages, it gets better and better. Green is good to me. . YRMV.

8B

[GCB3]

I'll figure out some way of draining the grains better. Stronger bag and a hoist maybe)

Hey, Old Brian. Check out the Brew in a Bag (BIAB) Company. I’ve been using them and they work pretty well for me. They have 4 bands of webbing sewn in which creates lifting/hoisting handles and reinforces the bag when squeezing. They have stock sizes and can make a custom if you need it. I can mash 30lbs, ferment on the grain and then hoist it up to squeeze and drain without dropping any grain. When done, I put a contractor trash bag under it, lower it into my garden cart and haul it to my dump spot. It really is a clean, easy process. I also have my fermenters on a cart so that I can roll them around the shed and move them out from under the hoist.. At my age, I need ease of handling.

The drawback I see to BIAB is that I can’t squeeze it as dry probably as the folks using the mop bucket method. I’m working on a solution but not there yet. There is also a slight issue with what to do with the handles while fermenting. I’m going to try a hanger on the inside of the fermenter lid. Not there yet either.

Good luck and I hope this helps.

[Old_Brian]

Hi GCB3, thanks for the info on BIAB company, sounds like they are much better made than the bag I have. A cart for moving the fermenter around sounds like a good idea too, like you my body is telling me that age is starting to take its toll

[Rudy602]

I totally understand the grainy taste that's being referred to for fermenting on the grain. I did an all barley single malt on the grain and also found this weird grainy taste. I did strict cuts and over time, it does seem to mellow out. I had also kept my other cuts aside in mason jars because of a brake I need to take and 5 months later, I tasted them and even in cuts I considered too grainy, mellowed out without oak. So I combined few more fractions into a second batch now aging properly on oak and will blend them at a later time. I'm going for a long term aging with this one (1-2 years?).

This was my first AG whisky so I did not know what to expect. I will try to ferment off the grain to compare. It was just simpler for me to pitch on the grain.