Corn malting process

[bobbypab]

Hello this is bobby. Experiment and fun bring me here. Right now I try to corn malting but confusing. I do it for moonshine. I sprout my corn and dry under sunlight. Now my question is this ready for cook? Somewhere I found it need to be roasted in oven 80 c. Is that necessary because I don’t have oven.

[still_stirrin]

Sun dry with a fan blowing air through it should work. Then mill it to a coarse meal. Then, you can mash it. Drying allows you to be able to mill it. I don’t think you need to kiln it unless that’s necessary to dry it further, like for storage. Wet grains will mold in storage and you don’t want that to happen.
ss

[bobbypab]

Sun dry with a fan blowing air through it should work. Then mill it to a coarse meal. Then, you can mash it. Drying allows you to be able to mill it. I don’t think you need to kiln it unless that’s necessary to dry it further, like for storage. Wet grains will mold in storage and you don’t want that to happen.
ss

Thanks and it’s understandable.

[HomerD]

What type of corn do you use? I have been thinking about trying that myself.

Thanks
Homer

[Yating_Ju]

Hello this is bobby. Experiment and fun bring me here. Right now I try to corn malting but confusing. I do it for moonshine. I sprout my corn and dry under sunlight. Now my question is this ready for cook? Somewhere I found it need to be roasted in oven 80 c. Is that necessary because I don’t have oven.

I'm also malting corn right now, so I have been reading a lot about this. I think that if you want to do a mash with 100% corn, you shouldn't roast your malted corn because you need the enzymes. If you roast the corn at 80C, the enzymes will be denaturated and your malt will lose its diastatic power.

At the end of the mashing process, brewers do a mash out at 170F (76.7C) to stops all of the enzyme action (preserving your fermentable sugar profile). That means that at 76.7C alpha and beta-amylase are denaturated. Therefore, if you roast your corn at 80C, you will lose your DP. If you are planning to get the enzyme from another source, it is fine, but if you need enzymes from your corn, I don't think that you should roast it.

What type of corn do you use? I have been thinking about trying that myself.

Thanks
Homer

In my case, I use unflavored popping corn (popcorn) from the grocery store.

[MichiganCornhusker]

I’ll offer two cents.

Corn starches need to be gelatinezed to be available to enzymes for conversion to fermentable sugars.

I’ve read that something about the malting process sidesteps this and that corn malt doesn’t need to be cooked.

I disagree. I believe malted corn still needs to be cooked at high temps for decent conversion.

Yes, this will denature the enzymes.

My answer has been to hold back about 10% of the malt to blend back in with the mash when the temps come back down to a safe level for enzymes, about 150F.

My experience is that malted corn has way more enzymes than available starches, so this is how I do it.

[shadylane]

My 2 cents worth
At best corn only has enough enzymes to convert itself.

Mash the dried crushed malted corn @ just under 150f
Drain off the liquid, it contains most of the enzymes
Cook the solids with steam, cool to 150ish and add the liquids back and finish mashing.

[MichiganCornhusker]

I’ve fully converted store bought corn meal in a mash with less than 10% corn malt. Corn malt has enough enzymes to convert the world!

[shadylane]

I'm going to call Bull Shit.
At best malted corn has a DP of 30ish

[Yating_Ju]

I agreed with Shadylane on this one. Most people are saying that malted corn has just enough enzymes to convert itself. A few people say that they mash with 50/50 malted and unmalted, but most people don't believe that. Mashing with only 10% of malted corn seems unlikely.

[HDNB]

and in this corner, witha 50kg bag of malt....let's get ready to ruuuummmmble!

[MichiganCornhusker]

At best corn only has enough enzymes to convert itself.

Most people are saying that malted corn has just enough enzymes to convert itself.

Don't believe everything you read.

Edit: Ain't no rumble, it's an easy exercise, just try it your ownself. It works.

[shadylane]

Ain't no rumble
I've read about it and also tried it
For practical purposes, malted corn is short on enzymes.
If it could be done, some one would be marketing 100% malted corn whiskey

[MichiganCornhusker]

Now this virus thing has me on lockdown about 300 miles away from my malt, but I do have raw corn at hand, hold my beer....

[shadylane]

Go for it
Is that "bloody butcher" corn

[MichiganCornhusker]

Yep, great for bread, too

[HDNB]

and they come out swinging with facts and photos, it's gonna be a great show tonite ladies and gents

(ok, maybe take a week or two)

[shadylane]

Common practice is for a mash bill to have a Diastatic Power of around 30 degrees lintner

Corn malt from this company has a DP of 26
https://riverbendmalt.com/malt/malted-corn/

This company says their corn malt "does not contain a significant amount of enzymes"
https://www.hausmalts.com/product-page/malted-corn

This company says their corn malt has a DP of 20
http://rusticbrewfarm.com/malt.html

Having said that, I'm not sure what the DP of Bloody Butcher corn might be.
It may be higher than the yellow dent corn. But not 10 times higher

[MichiganCornhusker]

I'm not sure how DP is actually calculated, but my understanding is that it is an indication of how much a malt can convert in a given amount of time. At lower temps, where the enzymes aren't quickly denatured, they will continue working. So maybe it just takes more time for a low DP grain to get the conversion done. Not sure, but I'll keep track this time. I don't think the type of corn will make much difference, last time I did this experiment it was with regular ol' yellow dent corn.

But, I think the more important part of all this is that yield will be way better if you cook the corn malt. I do not believe that the starches in the corn are all make available to the mash simply through the malting process. But, I'll check this out again, too.

I'm definitely not just trying to be contrary for the sake of argument. There just isn't a whole lot of info out there about corn malt when you get down to specifics, and I do think some of that info is at the very least misleading.

[shadylane]

But, I think the more important part of all this is that yield will be way better if you cook the corn malt. I do not believe that the starches in the corn are all make available to the mash simply through the malting process.

I also think malting alone doesn't make all the starch's available for mashing.
The big problem is, how to cook the malt without denaturing the enzymes ?

There just isn't a whole lot of info out there about corn malt when you get down to specifics, and I do think some of that info is at the very least misleading.

There's some info out there about using malted corn but not much.
Since corn and sorghum malt both have the same problems
Maybe we should look at the info about using sorghum malt.

[Yating_Ju]

But, I think the more important part of all this is that yield will be way better if you cook the corn malt. I do not believe that the starches in the corn are all make available to the mash simply through the malting process.

I also think malting alone doesn't make all the starch's available for mashing.
The big problem is, how to cook the malt without denaturing the enzymes ?

I think that your approach with decoction mashing is the only way to solve that issue. They use that for gluten-free brewing when they use grains like millets, sorghum and buckwheat (https://www.glutenfreehomebrewing.com/l ... torial.php).

[shadylane]

I think decoction mashing 100% malted corn works best for me.
I've been known to cheat and add some malted wheat
Or worst yet, store bought enzymes for insurance


Here's some excellent work from J Dot
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=70927

[Yating_Ju]

My 2 cents worth
At best corn only has enough enzymes to convert itself.

Mash the dried crushed malted corn @ just under 150f
Drain off the liquid, it contains most of the enzymes
Cook the solids with steam, cool to 150ish and add the liquids back and finish mashing.

I did some tests with my malted corn and I believe that you are right with the cooking.

Can I know for how long do you cook it?

Edit: Thanks for sharing the thread from J Dot. I looked at it and at some point, they are referring to this thread --> viewtopic.php?f=34&t=53832 . They have useful information that answers bobbypab's question.

Can you really heat it to 100C without denaturing the enzymes? Cuz everything I have read says that they won't survive.

If you dry the grain down to where it's crispy, the enzymes will survive well into the curing/kilning process.

[shadylane]

I've only done a few experiments using only the natural enzymes in 100% corn malt.
That was enough to convince me, there were easier and better ways

I'm too lazy and cheap to cook corn for an extended time.
The corn is brought to almost boiling temp with direct steam injection
The heat is turned off, and the corn mash is allowed slowly cool down to mashing temps.

[Yating_Ju]

Ok, thanks. I've seen this method as well and I think that I will give it a try.

Edit: I've seen this method in this recipe --> viewtopic.php?f=14&t=67346

[shadylane]

Here's another recipe using corn and enzymes
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=51458&hilit=pintoshine+corn+mash

And here's pintoshines video

[SwollenGoat23]

I don't want to highjack here but, real quick,.. how long should you let the sprout get before drying?[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202005 ... 646a4e.jpg[/IMG]

[SwollenGoat23]

I jumped too quick again...
I just found your thread for malting corn Shady...

[shadylane]

The first thing that pops out on sprouting corn is the radicle root.
That's what your seeing in your picture.
Wait some more and the true sprout will begin.
It will grow up the side of the kernel of corn and eventually turn green
You want to dry the malt before that happens.
Because the plant is useing up the starch.
Dry the corn malt too early and there's less enzymes
Dry it too late and there's plenty of enzymes but the plant has eaten much of the starch.

[SwollenGoat23]

Thank You Shady.