distilling on a budget

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phatsteve
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distilling on a budget

Post by phatsteve »

Hi, As an enthusiastic home beer-maker (using mashing to produce fermentables) I would like to try some home distilling.
Unfortunately, due to redundancy, I have very limited funds. I intend to construct a stovetop pot still from an old
pressure cooker (I'm a plumber by trade).
My question is this, can I use a fairly modern aluminium pressure cooker? I really can't afford stainless steel.
If not, what about the variation on a bucket still shown on amazingstill.com?
I hope one of these low budget alternatives will work,and above all, work safely.
Many Thanks
Usge
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Re: distilling on a budget

Post by Usge »

The consensus here is to stay away from those "amazing still"s. The safe materials to use, and the only ones recommended around here, are stainless and copper. There is no reason a decent stainless stock pot needs to cost more than an aluminum pressure cooker. And given your skills plumbing, should be a simple job to rig up one of the basic designs based on a 20-25L (5-6 gal) stainless pot (VM column for mainly making neutrals, or a basic potstill). I would strongly recommend you go that route. It doesn't have to cost you an arm and a leg.
Hack
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Re: distilling on a budget

Post by Hack »

Here's the simplest and cheapest setup I can think of. Here's what you need. A cheap 20 qt stainless stockpot, 20' of 1/2" copper tubing, and a five gallon bucket. Cut yourself a stick of some flexible wood like cedar, 3/4" x 1/4" x 18". The stick can be pushed through the handles of the stockpot and up over the lid to hold the lid in place. Drill a 1/2" hole in the stock pot lid. Wrapping the copper tubing around a piece of 6" stove pipe, or something similar in size, makes a coil that fits nicely in the bucket to make a worm. Drill a hole in the side of the bottom of the bucket. Push one end of your coil through the hole in the bucket and seal it with silicone. You have a condenser. The other end of the coil fits through the hole in the stock pot lid. Seal the lid to the pot and the coil to the lid with a flour dough mix of 3 parts water to 4 parts flour. This gives you a simple functional pot still.

You could solder the coil to the the lid but it makes clean up and storage simpler to be able to separate them. I'd also suggest stabilizing the coil in the bucket somehow. On mine I use a wood frame fastened to the bucket with steel roofing screws with rubber gaskets. The frame keeps the coil stable so the seal doesn't break where it goes through the bucket and also maintains a consistent downhill slope on the coil. If you make your worm out of 1/2" or 5/8" copper you can also reuse it if you decide to upsize your boiler. I use a 5/8" worm in a six gallon bucket with my 15 gallon keg boiler, and a 20qt stockpot as a thumper.
phatsteve
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Re: distilling on a budget

Post by phatsteve »

Thank you for response, I thought of using a pressure cooker because of the good seal between lid and pot, but I now see how to form a seal with the flour 'glue' so I can see how a stockpot, with a fairly loose fitting lid will work. I'll now try to find one within my budget.
As far as the condenser goes, I have plenty of copper tubing and fittings and a few plastic tanks lying around, and forming a coil will be no problem.
Thanks again for advice, just out of interest, why do you recommend avoiding the 'amazing still' which they enthuse about so much at amazingstill.com?
phatsteve
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Re: distilling on a budget

Post by phatsteve »

Update, I'm so glad I asked for your advice, I've just found a 15ltr stainless steel stockpot, with handles that stick up over the top (so I can easily make some sort of lid holding down device), on Amazon for about 1/2 the price of the aluminium pressure cooker I was going to buy!
I'm just about to order one now. I realise some will think 15 ltrs is rather small, but I have fairly modest requirements, and if it is a great success I can always move on to larger things!
Thanks again.
HookLine
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Re: distilling on a budget

Post by HookLine »

I've just found a 15ltr stainless steel stockpot, with handles that stick up over the top
Carefully check how the handles are attached. Sometimes the cheap pots use rivets, and they do not always seal up very well.

See here for more info:

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 33&t=11529
Be safe.
Be discreet.
And have fun.
phatsteve
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Re: distilling on a budget

Post by phatsteve »

yes, you are right, they are riveted. Ho Hum......more searching.
btw, one of the posts you directed me to says to remove cheap rivets and replace with ss nuts, bolts and washers.
Any thoughts?
Hack
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Re: distilling on a budget

Post by Hack »

On my thumper I just backed up the rivets with something solid and gave them a couple taps with a hammer to expand them a bit. This stopped the leak. The rivets on mine seem to be aluminum. Though it's not ideal because it corrodes a bit, it is safe for distilling.
Usge
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Re: distilling on a budget

Post by Usge »

The handles on my 230 dollar brewpot are riveted too. It's not just that they are riveted, it's how well they did the job. As mentioned by Hack, if they did a bad job, you can put something behind it, hammer the rivets down a bit to tighten up the space You can still use "paste on it". Probably other ways to seal it up as well. All in all, it's worth spending the extra money on a decent pot.

Other idea: With a change of lid, a mash/brew pot can become your stillin' pot. Buy, or build, a 2nd lid for your brew pot you already have (you mentioned you already make/mash beer)...which most likely has a nice clad bottom and ball valve already. Modify that 2nd lid with your copper and fittings. Make a gasket of flour/water, and clamp it with large binder clips. If you don't have one already, that's a good investment to make for BOTH hobbies...so you can do a single boil. If you are using gas on your stove....buy a "tuscan grill" grate, (it's 16 inches sq) and place it across 2 eyes. That will transfer heat from both eyes into the iron grate and distribute it evenly. It's also big enough to accommodate up to a 10gal pot. You could also use a propane burner outside for both (beer/distilling) Electric eyes tend to cycle...on/off and can be frustrating to use/control heat on. But, you deal with what you have — I assume if you make/mash beer already, you've already got this worked out to some degree.

Given your experience with plumbing and availability of copper tube/fittings...I'd recommend you build a liebig condensor rather than use a bucket coil. You can find plenty of examples around to look at. Basically, you fit a larger diameter tube over the inner one to form a water jacket. And tap an in and output for cold water to go in and hot to go out. Normal procedure is to use 1/2 inner tube with 3/4 outer tube. Use a reducing Tee to fit everything together (including your i/o for water flow). I like to use 1/4 inch for the water input/output cause it seems to maintain flow more evenly...particularly at lower water flow rates. You'll need to file out the little groove/ring stop so that your inner 1/2 tube slides all the way through the reducing Tee. About 24-26 inches in length seems average for a liebig. Use a copper threaded union (NOT brass/copper) to attach it. I get mine from McMaster -Carr because every other place I've ordered from always sends wrong part (ie., copper/brass). McMaster is the only place I've actually gotten the right part. But, if you know where to get them locally, that's fine too.
phatsteve
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Re: distilling on a budget

Post by phatsteve »

Thanks for replies, I did think of using my 10 gal ss electric mash boiler as a pot still, especially as it is thermostatic, but, although I am an enthusiastic brewer, I am still feeling my way with distilling, and prefer to experiment with equipment other than my main-stream brewing gear. I have now decided ( thanks to advice I have received) to initially go for a 15 ltr ss stockpot (inexpensive), and a simple 10 gal 'bucket' condenser with a copper coil. If it works out ok, and I get very enthusiastic, I can think about using my mash boiler with another lid as a still. I'm quite familiar with the design of a Liebig condenser, and will consider making one after some trial runs.
I have 2 final (I hope) questions, I am concerned about the union of the 1" copper pipe as it comes out of the ss lid of the stockpot, I can't seem to find online any ss flanged unions. I did think about a flanged tank connector as I use in plumbing, but all I can find is brass.On the main homedistiller page, under pot stills, one guy has used a stockpot with a brass flange, which he says is ok, but ss is better.
Also, there are pictures with many different angles for the lyne arm, including horizontal, is there any preference?
I was thinking of coming out of the still in 1" copper, and then reducing to 1/2" for the lyne arm.

Thanks for the advice
Usge
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Re: distilling on a budget

Post by Usge »

1" to 1/2" seems fine. Lynearm going straight across is "neutral" in it's effect on flavor. Lynearm angled upwards "lightens" the spirit. Lynearm angled downwards intensifies flavor of spirit. That's the general idea...although in practice, it doesn't seem to make that dramatic of a difference. Most people just run the lynearm length/angle based on logistics/placement for their own space/needs more than anything else.

You could also use a stainless bulkhead fitting to attach 1 inch tube to the potlid. I believe you can get copper/stainless flanges at McMaster-Carr. Something like this??
http://www.mcmaster.com/#stainless-stee ... es/=4mrnme" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Here's several options

http://www.mcmaster.com/#stainless-stee ... es/=4mrmsq" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Hack
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Re: distilling on a budget

Post by Hack »

For a flange on my 2" column coming off mine I just hammered over the edge to make a flange about a 1/4" wide and soldered it to the stainless mixing bowl I use as a cap.
phatsteve
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Re: distilling on a budget

Post by phatsteve »

Hack, how on earth did you solder copper to stainless steel? What solder did you use? What flux? As far as I knew ss will not accept anything other than a ss weld, which is far beyond my capabilities. Other than that, your suggestion is brilliant, flanging a copper pipe is quite easy as it is a fairly soft metal. I would like to use this solution, if only I knew how to solder copper to ss (obviously my training as a plumber was seriously lacking somewhere along the line! Maybe I had a sickie that day!)
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LWTCS
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Re: distilling on a budget

Post by LWTCS »

Good article

http://brewingtechniques.com/library/ba ... almer.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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Hack
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Re: distilling on a budget

Post by Hack »

phatsteve wrote:Hack, how on earth did you solder copper to stainless steel? What solder did you use? What flux? As far as I knew ss will not accept anything other than a ss weld, which is far beyond my capabilities. Other than that, your suggestion is brilliant, flanging a copper pipe is quite easy as it is a fairly soft metal. I would like to use this solution, if only I knew how to solder copper to ss (obviously my training as a plumber was seriously lacking somewhere along the line! Maybe I had a sickie that day!)
I spent an hour or two of fiddling and cussing to figure this out, but once I did it's actually really easy to do.

I used the soft silver solder from the plumbing section at the hardware store, and a bottle of liquid flux that said it worked for stainless. I doused the area I planned to tin with the flux and used my electric iron to tin the area. I melted the solder against the tip of the iron and when the stainless got hot enough it stuck with a good bond. I had to work my way around to tin it. Then I set my 2" column in place and applied heat with my propane torch about an inch and a half up the column and waited for the heat to spread evenly through the column. That took a minute or so. The tinning all melted at once and I fed more solder in as needed to fill the joint.

Using the soft solder, the right flux, tinning, and heating the copper up a ways so the heat spreads evenly are the key points.
phatsteve
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Re: distilling on a budget

Post by phatsteve »

Thanks for the advice Hack, and for the link LWTCS. I've also done a bit of research which backs up what you say Hack, temperature, type of solder and flux are crucial to success. I'll get the items I need and give it a try, My plumbing solder and paste flux are obviously no use.
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Tater
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Re: distilling on a budget

Post by Tater »

if ya have a ox/ac rig go to refrigeration supply store . Most have a flux coated soldering stick that will work on copper or brass to ss
I use a pot still.Sometimes with a thumper
Hanson423
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Re: distilling on a budget

Post by Hanson423 »

Hack wrote:Here's the simplest and cheapest setup I can think of. Here's what you need. A cheap 20 qt stainless stockpot, 20' of 1/2" copper tubing, and a five gallon bucket. Cut yourself a stick of some flexible wood like cedar, 3/4" x 1/4" x 18". The stick can be pushed through the handles of the stockpot and up over the lid to hold the lid in place. Drill a 1/2" hole in the stock pot lid. Wrapping the copper tubing around a piece of 6" stove pipe, or something similar in size, makes a coil that fits nicely in the bucket to make a worm. Drill a hole in the side of the bottom of the bucket. Push one end of your coil through the hole in the bucket and seal it with silicone. You have a condenser. The other end of the coil fits through the hole in the stock pot lid. Seal the lid to the pot and the coil to the lid with a flour dough mix of 3 parts water to 4 parts flour. This gives you a simple functional pot still.

You could solder the coil to the the lid but it makes clean up and storage simpler to be able to separate them. I'd also suggest stabilizing the coil in the bucket somehow. On mine I use a wood frame fastened to the bucket with steel roofing screws with rubber gaskets. The frame keeps the coil stable so the seal doesn't break where it goes through the bucket and also maintains a consistent downhill slope on the coil. If you make your worm out of 1/2" or 5/8" copper you can also reuse it if you decide to upsize your boiler. I use a 5/8" worm in a six gallon bucket with my 15 gallon keg boiler, and a 20qt stockpot as a thumper.


I know I a few years late... Are you saying that I can just drill a hole in the lid and then stick the copper through the hole and seal with flower paste? I bought a compression fitting but I didn't have a big enough drill bit for it. But I have a 1/2in bit and my copper fits in it perfect. Im pretty sure I need a 5/8 bit but I don't have one and my drill doesn't go that big. Is it safe and alright to it in there without a fitting?
jb-texshine
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Re: distilling on a budget

Post by jb-texshine »

Long as it seals vapor tight it's good to go. You want the fit to be as tight as possible. Do you have a dremel tool? If so Use the drill first with the bit that you think isn't big enough then the dremel.
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cranky
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Re: distilling on a budget

Post by cranky »

On my little pot I soldered a copper cap to a bowl like Pyewacket did here
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =2&t=39820
Then drilled it out and use a Teflon wrapped slip joint. It works real well but there are lots of ways to get the job done, just make sure you don't spring any leaks.
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