Movement to legalize in the USA

[blanikdog]

I would rather be a outlaw!Hell,I come from a long line of them anyway.

Nor me, wineo. Our nation was founded by British 'outlaws'. It's a tradition I wouldn't want to break.

blanik

[HookLine]

I would rather be a outlaw!Hell,I come from a long line of them anyway.

Nor me, wineo. Our nation was founded by British 'outlaws'. It's a tradition I wouldn't want to break.

blanik

A lot of them Brits were Irish, like some of my ancestors. (Though I am not a whisky man.)

And I agree that some traditions are worth keeping alive.

[Jetzon]

You can make wine and beer, Its Just bout Greed.
Does anybody here know what the official reason is? Besides the revenue/taxes they bring in from it. Maybe uncle Jesse knows after All the Red tape and BS I'm sure they put him threw. Somebody here made a Good point in a past post. Its for safety reasons. I wouldn't want to live in an apartment building with a neighbor distilling that had No clue what the hell he was doing.. But thats easy enough to fix. Just one more rule added to the list of the Not Allowed things to do.

[blanikdog]

A lot of them Brits were Irish, like some of my ancestors. (Though I am not a whisky man.) And I agree that some traditions are worth keeping alive.

I seem to recollect that they were mostly Irish, hook.

blanik

[HookLine]

I seem to recollect that they were mostly Irish, hook.

blanik

I reckon that is where we get our sense of humour and anti-authoritarian streak from, and our unquenchable taste for the devil's brew. He he.

[blanikdog]

Yairrrs hook, Some folk have a lot of difficulty understanding our sense of humour and indeed our culture. We are anti-authoritarian and proud of it. Trouble is that some - particularly US folk for some reason - think we are putting shit on them when we are simply being Aussies.

Never, ever say that somebody is a bastard - even a nice bastard - or the shit really hits the fan.

I believe that those who refuse to even try to understand our culture are the losers. AUSSIES ARE GREAT, MATE.

blanik

[MountedGoat]

I hear you there Blanik and know that so much misconception is out there. And it was Scottish that moved to Ireland that moved to the US and into the mountains, from what I am told. I thank my Scot relatives for their anti-authority attitude.

[Old_Blue]

MountedGoat is correct. It was the Scot mingled with Irish from Ulster.

Ulstermen.

King James pissed them off.

My folks came here in the late 1600's and ambled their way down the Appalachian chain.

Wreaking havoc along the way I might add

[MisterSteve124]

Well if no one wants to put their name on a petition or send a letter to their congressman/representative then where do we start? I don't see what the harm is in sending a representative a letter asking them about a movement to legalize. You could just say it's always something I have wanted to try and I believe that I should be able to do it just like my ancestors did.

[HookLine]

Well if no one wants to put their name on a petition or send a letter to their congressman/representative then where do we start?

Good question. A few threads back, somebody (tater, I think) suggested we could write up a summary, a kind of press release, describing what actually happens in home distilling and why we think it should be legal, including a rebuttal of the idiotic and dishonest claims repeatedly made by the authorities about the (mostly imagined) dangers of this hobby, and the alleged tax loss to the state.

It is an idea I have been mulling over.

I don't see what the harm is in sending a representative a letter asking them about a movement to legalize.

No way I am putting my name on a petition or letter while I am an active stiller.

It might be better to get a non-distiller to do the public lobbying on our behalf. But, of course, that costs money. How much are you prepared to donate?

[hoochinoo]

I Do not believe that distillation of hard liquor should be allowed Freely. It is dangerous and the freedom in the hands of unqualified public can cause serious damage. Imagine having to buy insurance for it.

Brewing beer and wine is totally a different process and is rather safe.

I do not believe that the government and the tax revenues really play a role since it is legal to brew wine and beer and I do not see a lot of folks brewing their beer. Everybody is busy working and making a living.

For us here and myself, I very much like this hobby and the resulting product.

Thanks.

[trthskr4]

I understand your sentiments Hoochinoo, maybe at the most it should be de-criminalized quietly. Then again why is someone elses stupidity affecting the rest. Every one of those warning stickers on every thing you buy now a days is because some dumb arse poured scalding coffee in their lap, or got in the bath tub with a curling iron. You have to be safe with every thing. I don't meet alot of people who know it's legal to make your own wine and beer, every one's too busy making a living. You'd actually be surprised at the people who don't know it's illegal to distill spirits at home. I have had cops tell me it's ok to make it as long as you don't sell it, transport it accross state lines or make over 250 gallons per year.

[davydangerson]

I believe as long as your safe, descreet, and don't sell it, the Feds are not going to spend any time trying to figure out who is who. Act like a dumb ass, burn your garage down, and sell to anybody who has the money, thats a sure fire way to get busted

[MisterSteve124]

Good question. A few threads back, somebody (tater, I think) suggested we could write up a summary, a kind of press release, describing what actually happens in home distilling and why we think it should be legal, including a rebuttal of the idiotic and dishonest claims repeatedly made by the authorities about the (mostly imagined) dangers of this hobby, and the alleged tax loss to the state.

It is an idea I have been mulling over.

That seems like a great idea to me. Maybe we could send it to the media annonymously and ask for our name not to be shown.

[punkin]

I think Hoochino makes some good points. I wouldn't want three quarters of the blokes i know messing in their sheds making stuff i might be offered to drink

Then again, i might just hang around with more idiots than most people


So long as you have to do the research, reading, effort and trials that i had to search out to discover this place here, the trial and error of getting the still right in the first place, and the sussing out of problems and knowing the questions to ask to raise solutions....
I reckon it does our bit to weed out most of the people that really shouldn't be doing this at all.
That's why i have some issues with the novice section and i could see why it was the way it was aorund here a few months back when i joined.
If you have to do the graft, you are more likely to be already thinking hard about what you are doing...


So long as the law is not actively pursuing me for what i'm doing, i'm happy to be treading the wide side of the line.



WeReallyDoNeedprotectingFromOurselvesSometimesPunkin

[trthskr4]

Punkin, I am getting a little more crabby with age so I'm leaning more toward the whole "natural selection" thing. If your going to be stupid, you better be tough.

[goinbroke2]

While I think it would make me feel better if it was decriminalized and the availability of pots/burners/equipment would be better, I can't help but think 1) there would be more "my coffee burned my lap" type of suing 2) the price in an opened market would spiral up so a "still burner unit" would be exorbant 3) news media completely missing the boat with biased reporting and sensationalism if/when something did occur.

As a drag racer I repeatedly have e-mailed and called media outlets that classify three or more cars tearing through traffic at 100mph as "drag racers". Dragracing is a LEGAL and SANCTIONED event on CLOSED RACE TRACKS with numerous safety precautions/rules. Punks tearing down congested highways is "STREET RACING" and is ILLEGAL and NOT SANCTIONED with NO SAFETY MEASURES WHATSOEVER!
Yes I am very bitter about it!

Now imagine the laws open up and on the news that night you hear "another moonshine maker killed" when he dropped a glass carboy full of wine and then fell and slit his throat on the broken glass. Or "Moonshine takes another life" and it's a story on a guy who drank too much homemade beer then drove his car into a semi truck.
THAT'S the kind of shit we would be dealing with. You know as well as I do, if you mention moonshine or homemade whiskey to anybody at work, they ALL say "that stuff will kill you/make you go blind/etc. There is too much negative press and too many stupid people in the world.

[rezaxis]

they ALL say "that stuff will kill you/make you go blind/etc.

That's the way it is in my experience. Much ignorance and plenty of prejudice.

[rad14701]

I find the concept of allowing any two idiots to hook up and breed themselves a big litter of mis-guided children to be a scarier scenario than a sparse few people running a still and they don't need a permit or license to do that either... Think about it... Far more idiots will give up on distillation before getting into trouble than those swapping bodily fluids... I think people are focusing their efforts in the wrong direction, but that's just me... A crude comparison...??? Perhaps... True...??? Absolutely... It should make people stop and say "Hmmm"...

[MountedGoat]

Now, how about this. What if like a drivers license you had to take a test? Not just a written test, but also show that you can make a still and are able to operate it in a safe manner and have the correct safety precautions. I mean, yes it is restricting who can do it, but isn't that what we are saying here? That we don't want everyone doing this if they are going to be unsafe. Hell, in the "mistakes" thread there are so many (both basic and unimaginable) that it makes you wonder.

Making it legal would be amazing, but as said above there are going to be a lot of "newsworthy" accidents that will be blamed on home brew. It's bad enough that there are groups like MADD (great group, just using as an example) that are after every single bar, winery, distillery and brewery. Just think if two teenagers died after getting into the homemade shine...I think it would once again become illegal.

Or what about people that would go into it using plastics, lead solder, and things that are toxic without knowledge. I don't know...survival of the fittest and all, but it is the people that get served bad stuff that will be harmed the most. Seems like it is never the drunk that gets killed in the accident. You can smell bad beer and wine, but most people drink bad commercial stuff all the time and don't know what great shine you can make out there.

And I am done...

[MisterSteve124]

Mounted Goat that seems like a great idea. Only problem is to organize all that they would probably have to do more research on moonshine to get some hard facts and it would take a while to get all of that set up.

[davydangerson]

The class idea is not a bad one. Here in the US you must be certified to get an air tank filled at a scuba store. The only problem is we don't have an item to limit access to.
I must admit that flying under the radar is part of the fun

[Rudi]

Dont know about the USA but in Aus there is far too much miss information and rubish (mostly spread by home brew shops). It seems to me that it would be an impossible feat to change the public perception and the media would never drum things up to put distilling in a bad light . As far as a pettion or the like I think Id rather leave sleeping dogs lie and not bring unwanted attention.Some bone head gets hold of all those signatures and address and a light comes on and they start looking.In saying that I would still support the Idea of trying to legalise home distilling.(how do things go in NZ accident wise etc?)

[HookLine]

In saying that I would still support the Idea of trying to legalise home distilling.(how do things go in NZ accident wise etc?)

Important point there Rudi. If there has not been any significant number of serious accidents or poisonings in NZ from legal home stilling, then most of the safety objections go out the door.

[Dnderhead]

Only thing Iv heard about is occasional fire witch could be eliminated partly by more open,"permanent" installation

[PHPete]

I've lurked for a while, now I come bearing modest gifts of linkage.

There was just a ways and means committee meeting regarding the ATF - http://www.house.gov/jct/x-43-08.pdf (pdf @ house.gov)

The relevant portion to this thread can me found here: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2008/E8-9095.htm (htm @ gpo.gov

For those of you who don't like following links, I'll entice you with the title of the document. "Proposed Revision of Distilled Spirits Plant Regulations (2001R-194P)"

[trthskr4]

I'm no lawyer but it looks like to me that the distillery lawyers and lobbyists are just trying to get the regulations simplified and very minor changes to the bonding of different areas used in the distilling, storage, bottling and transport. No changes are being made to the extent of making it legal for home distilling in fact referencing pg. 26206 it restates that it is illegal to produce distilled spirits at home, and even seeks to simplify the wording so that no one has any misleading thoughts about it. I'm sure Uncle Jesse's thinking, "Dang, right after I get my paperwork done they want to simplify it". It also mainly allows for computer generated record keeping. That's what I read. I wish I were mistaken so please someone tell me I am.

[PHPete]

I wish I were mistaken so please someone tell me I am.

I wish I could, but I can't. That's basically what I read as well. Nevertheless, somewhere upstream in this thread there was a mention of a bill in the house...

Probably "H.R. 3949: To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to allow distilled spirits to be produced in dwelling..."
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtex ... =h110-3949

Problem is, it's been shot down twice already.

[PHPete]

I suppose since it's not even scheduled for a debate yet, there _could_ be a grassroots movement to get people to contact their representatives in support of the bill.

But Representative Stupak (D-MI) is the sole sponsor of the bill, which puts it on pretty shaky ground to begin with.

[VicBill]

If we could find the stats, the best thing to use would be ladder accidents vs distilling accidents in NZ.

Any idiot can go and buy a 24' ladder at any hardware store. Yet there are a huge number of people who fall off them.

Saying that distilling is unsafe is a furphy, ladders are unsafe in many hands, and if you lend it to the neighbour, then it is likely to be dangerous in their hands.