If you just watched at TV show about distilling, read this.

[goose eye]

what i dont understand is these are smart folks comein in. they rite how much they red an then
proseed to show it was a archie comic book cause it dam sure wont about likker makein. best i can figure if they said they red then you owe em. it is your responcibility to teach em to hold there hand.

they aint your ma
they aint your pa
an they dont owe you a dam thang

on your feet!

[sleder]

Goose i salute you.These new dudes don't understand when your making something on par with gas and its to easy to begin with you should at least know the temps.

[Tater]

Ive never saw anyone on this site, That had read and then asked a question that had enough info in it so that a educated guess from board members could be made as a answer get flamed.Usally its more like a race to see who helps first. Cause like Ive said before anyone whos really trying it shows in their question.Ill help anyone who does that if I can on or off this site.

[winowilly]

Seems to me that no one "has" to answer the same questions over again. Why don't you just learn to ignore them?

Would you learn to ignore your dog shitting in your living room or would you put forth some effort to train it not to shit in the house...??? How many shit piles would it take before you decided to take some action...??? Heck, why even toilet train your kids...??? Maybe these comparatives are a bit extreme but they help drive the point home... We get tired of the forums being cluttered with the same shit... That's why we don't just ignore what could be considered bad behavior... As yet another analogy, if you aren't part of the solution you're part of the problem...

Well, I do toilet train my kid, and still anwer their dumb questions. Now if my dog starts asking dumb question, I might start re-thinking my position!

O.K. from now on no more novices questions in the "NOVICE" section.

"give a man a fish and he can eat for a day, but teach him how to distill and..................


"Analogies are always suspect."

[blanikdog]

what i dont understand is these are smart folks comein in. they rite how much they red an then proseed to show it was a archie comic book cause it dam sure wont about likker makein. best i can figure if they said they red then you owe em. it is your responcibility to teach em to hold there hand.

they aint your ma
they aint your pa
an they dont owe you a dam thang

on your feet!

Well said, goose.

blanik

[blanikdog]

... O.K. from now on no more novices questions in the "NOVICE" section. ...

Wrong attitude, winow. After you've been in here a few years and actually experience the 'uninformed' questions asked you will understand how important it is to know what one answers. It's easy to see if someone has done the hard yakker as their questions show it quite clearly. You've no doubt heard this before, but this can be a dangerous craft and if someone fucks up we all get put into the same box.

Frankly, I tend to ignore stupid questions - and some are fucking stupid - and if someone has a genuine question I usually PM my opinion these days. It stops all the shitty replies when I won't spoon feed.

This isn't directed to you winow, it's directed to all who want to make cheap shit grog without any real effort. We don't make cheap shit grog and by spoon feeding newbs cheap shit grog will be made simply because the newb has no real idea about what's going on. Just have a look at some of the questions that have recently featured in here and it becomes clear.

We all ask questions. I recently asked a very simple question about all grain horse feed and got some excellent answers, but I had done the hard yakker and tried to find the product first.

It's all about making the effort. This isn't high school where all the answers are just given. And besides, mostly we are bad tempered, irritable, impatient old bastards that don't like being fucked about. Well, I am anyway.

I will expect a PM from one or all of the mods after this post.



blanik

[rad14701]

O.K. from now on no more novices questions in the "NOVICE" section.

Lest we forget, this is the "Novice" section, not the "Clueless" section... Sometimes you have to take the "tough love" approach in an effort to winnow out the chaf...

[punkin]

O.K. from now on no more novices questions in the "NOVICE" section.

Lest we forget, this is the "Novice" section, not the "Clueless" section... Sometimes you have to take the "tough love" approach in an effort to winnow out the chaf...

No=one complains about 'novice questions' only about lazy, high school idiot questions.

Over and over again, if you can't do enough homework to ask a sensible question, i don't believe you are welcome here.







SeemsClearEnoughToMePunkin

[winowilly]

O.K. Even I can tell which way the wind is blowing, and I'll defer to all you 'ol timers (no sarcasm, really). I am new to this site and have read it extensively and have learned a lot from you guys. And I do have some experience with the issues you're addressing, maybe I'm a little more tolerant (well, sometimes). I do know what it's like to get really exasperated with n00bs. Think I’ll go sit in the corner for awhile. But I’ll be back! Got a batch cookin’ right now.

[rad14701]

Think I’ll go sit in the corner for awhile. But I’ll be back! Got a batch cookin’ right now.

I'm sure that you're one of the few newer members who will be reading up while you patiently wait for that batch to finish fermenting... And if you come up with any new ideas that might help alleviate the very problems we've discussed here, feel free to share them...

[winowilly]

I'm sure that you're one of the few newer members who will be reading up while you patiently wait for that batch to finish fermenting... And if you come up with any new ideas that might help alleviate the very problems we've discussed here, feel free to share them...

Thanks RAD. I get a lot from reading, some people don't. I think the problem is some people ask dumb question just because the want to participate. But it proves the old saying " Better to shut up and be thought stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".

Ran off some "apple lightnin", and I think it came out pretty good. This was the moldy stuff I asked about in another post. Got about six pints from six gallons, not real good yeild, but it was unknown mash so I made pretty conservative cuts.

And to all you guys who have given me advice: THANK YOU ALL!

Edit: That should actually read "three pints from six gallons". Sorry.

[stillvodka]

Where is pintoshine? I've been out of distilling for a for a couple of years, if you are about, send me a PM, I'm thinking of building up another still, Hows you Handmade stainless thumper still getting on? Looked real good last time I seen it.

[punkin]

Where is pintoshine? I've been out of distilling for a for a couple of years, if you are about, send me a PM, I'm thinking of building up another still, Hows you Handmade stainless thumper still getting on? Looked real good last time I seen it.

Pint checks in, but only usually posts to direct questions nowadays.

Either post to one of his threads or send him a PM.

I think he spends more time on Yahoo nowadays.

[stillvodka]

Hello Punkin,

Clever/resourceful bloke ole pintoshine! made a lovely stainless still from scratch, I see he has posted a copper version on here for people to have a go at building, I haven't been around for a couple of years, good hobby this,mind you that's if you don't consume too much of what you have produced! get you in a lot Grief , I am going to start up again now the time as past, the last project I had was a Full ''Glass'' Vapour management still but never got to use it, I am Not going to carry on with the Glass though, copper is so much nicer and works perfect.

Not sure if this is the right section for posting, Iv'e had a few ciders this evening

[srye]

I'm new to this,I have read for two days,and afraid to ask a question someone might think "I sound ignorant, which in a majority if cases is an accurate and honest assumption..." If i read every book and posting I would not need to come and ask any questions.......

[rad14701]

I'm new to this,I have read for two days,and afraid to ask a question someone might think "I sound ignorant, which in a majority if cases is an accurate and honest assumption..." If i read every book and posting I would not need to come and ask any questions.......

In theory, perhaps... In reality, you would be prepared to ask educated questions that haven't been answered dozens of times and would be more likely to get educated answers based on the hundreds of years of collective experience the membership has to offer...

[blanikdog]

I'm new to this,I have read for two days,and afraid to ask a question someone might think "I sound ignorant, which in a majority if cases is an accurate and honest assumption..." If i read every book and posting I would not need to come and ask any questions.......

Two days isn't really a lot of reading for a complicated process as this is, but try asking and see how the responses go. Do you have a still? Have you any experience at all? You have to ask questions some time so why not now? Mostly we are OK.

blanik

[Stinker]

I've been a member for only a short time and I've read the frustration (IMO most justified) from repetitive posts and questions that appear no research at all was attempted before asking. I’ve been guilty of asking a couple myself.
In an attempt to avoid tongue lashings I've read and reread everything I could. Some things make scense and some are just plain out of my league. I'm still learning and hope I can count on you guys in the future to point me in the right direction.

Just an idea...Maybe give the not so noob noob's a shot at answering the repetitive, questions first. The more experienced
Folks could just sort of proof read and make minor corrections where needed. Maybe a bad idea to some..

[Lowerarchy]

This site could really use "best-of" page. Separate the timeless noob questions, the crap ideas, the chit-chat and put everything good in its own category. That would be a substantial read. Something like Woodweb Knowledge Base, which are indexed and edited forum posts on every conceivable topic and every post is fascinating. http://www.woodweb.com/index.html#Knowledge%20Base" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow. The stickies are something, but there are tons of unique topics worth special attention.

Yahoo Disitller's Group could use something similar. Working back to the last page here is almost possible with a few clear days of reading and skimming; working back through the posts there is a major task. I think it goes back to 1995 or something.

[Mud]

Probably a lot of people would like to see something as well organized as Woodweb. But no doubt they have a paid staff since they take advertising. Uncle Jesse pays for this out of pocket (thanks UJ) and the moderators volunteer (thank guys).

You could always add to the wiki. Not sure what's involved as I've never done it, but it's probably not too tough. Give it a go and let us know what you added.

-Mud

[draco]

I kind of like the idea that if you want it you have to put in the work to get it. Making it too easy and too much of a cook book would rob people of the depth of the experience. But that is just me.

[Lowerarchy]

Frankly, adding to the Wiki is too much work for me. Perhaps a wiki page called "Useful thoughts from forum members" with a collection of links might be appropriate.

Sorry to the OP for leading your thread off-topic.

[abeath]

As I go through all the threads in my quest to learn, I came across this thread and can understand both sides.
Have you thought about making it a "read only" for all newbies for X amount of time? This might encourage, or force them into reading and learning before they can actually become a member. Maybe once they are allowed to post it might be limited to just one folder for X amount of time. This folder could be where they post about their experiences? This way you would see who is a 'n00b' as they would probably not go through all the 'h00ps'.
Okay I must move on, I have learning to do!

[pro65]

I have just joined this sight , I have been reading as much as I can. I just read all 4 pages of this post to find out what it was about. I can see where some of the older guys here would get tired of answering the same questions over and over.

But with due respect to all , why is everyone here? Isn't it for making friends and for sharing ideas so you can try new things and get better results without having to take months and months to get results? I build performance cars for a living. If everyone in my business felt like most of you our cars would still be in the stages of stock. Not that reading is unacceptable, I agree do your home work. But for guys like me I can read how to set up a fuel injection set up and still not understand it. But you let someone show me or explain it to me and I will remember how to do it from now on.

I guess what I am saying is not everyone understands what they read, but show them or tell them in simple words and they grasp it for life.

What would we all do if doctors told some of us we have a deadly disease and may die. And we say what can we do for it and the doc says I don't have time for you I have answered those questions before go find a book and read about it. Some would get a book and read it and half of those that read it still would not understand it. But if the dock would have taken 60 seconds to explain it then everyone would understand.

tell me who on this site would take there car in to a mechanic and have it fixed. Would you ask questions to make sure the job was done right. Or would you drive it to the library and get a book to see if it was done right. Just my 2 cents worth I am not trying to piss anyone off. just stating how I see it.

[rad14701]

Just my 2 cents worth I am not trying to piss anyone off. just stating how I see it.

You're one of the few who "gets it", pro65... Once you've been here a while you'll understand why this thread was started... Too many folks see a program on TV and think they want to give distillation a try... Most of them are just a PITA (pain in the ass) and end up fading into obscurity, but only after making our lives miserable for a few hours, days, or weeks... THOSE are the folks this thread is intended for, not for self-starters who only ask once they're in up to their elbows...

[Ayay]

Plenty of gold here but I find that it’s not picked up and put in my bucket for me; I have to do that myself. I also find that people are willing to show where the good nuggets are hidden and will even dig up a few for free, but leaning on your shovel while they work sure pisses them off and you would be too.

[Husker]

Plenty of gold here but I find that it’s not picked up and put in my bucket for me; I have to do that myself. I also find that people are willing to show where the good nuggets are hidden and will even dig up a few for free, but leaning on your shovel while they work sure pisses them off and you would be too.

That is one of the best explanations i have read in a LONG time.

H

[punkin]

If everyone in my business felt like most of you our cars would still be in the stages of stock.

Bullshit.

All the info is here, all the answers have been given in simple detailed terms to all the questions. It's done.
Over and over, it's done.

I guess what I am saying is not everyone understands what they read, but show them or tell them in simple words and they grasp it for life.

We are unable to show you. It's a forum. If you can't understand what you read, why are you perusing a forum? There's not enough pictures here to teach you anything. The questions have been answered repeatedly. Simply. The answers haven't gone away, they are still here, we just can't be bothered typing them over and over for those that are too lazy to be bothered looking for them.

What would we all do if doctors told some of us we have a deadly disease and may die. And we say what can we do for it and the doc says I don't have time for you I have answered those questions before go find a book and read about it. Some would get a book and read it and half of those that read it still would not understand it. But if the dock would have taken 60 seconds to explain it then everyone would understand.

And what if you were the doctor standing in a long hallway with a queue of people waiting to ask about the same illness?
And you advise the first person in the queue in a loud voice that all can hear what to do about the illness, he say's 'Thanks doc, now i understand'. Then the next person says 'Can you tell me about the illness too?'. and you explain it to her so all can hear and then the next person says 'can you tell me about the illness?'.

I reckon you'd get pretty sick of it.

tell me who on this site would take there car in to a mechanic and have it fixed. Would you ask questions to make sure the job was done right. Or would you drive it to the library and get a book to see if it was done right. Just my 2 cents worth I am not trying to piss anyone off. just stating how I see it.

I think you'll find this site populated by the type of person who would walk to the library, borrow a book and fix their own damn car

Failing that if we took a car to a mechanic we'd pay the man. Not quite the same as here where all the information is free for the giving. If you find a mechanic like that, let me know will ya?




If i could be bothered searching for 10 mins i could probably find six or seven different posters who've posted the exact same justifications for spoon feeding as you have, and probably even sillier similies.



MaybeEvenInThisThreadPunkin

[pro65]

Punkin wrote


Bullshit.

All the info is here, all the answers have been given in simple detailed terms to all the questions. It's done.
Over and over, it's done.

So punkin If i gave you written instructions on how to build a 572 BB cross drilled oil injection , twin turbos , nitrous injected with 11.1 ratio of compression, With sequential fuel injection, You telling me you could read it and then do it?

Bullshit , bullshit and more bullshit.

Tell me this punkin If UJ had not started this site and shared his knowledge most everyone on this sight would still have their head stuck up their ass.

Look at it like this if everyone on this site was stacked like a pyramid with UJ and 9 others at the top, having all the knowledge and not sharing it with anyone else, after those 10 went to their makers ,the pyramid would die off.

So I know from experience how aggravating it is for people to ask the same question over and over where it is written in a book or a web site that they could get it from without bothering me, I still take the time to answer their questions as simple as they may be because that is the way that hobbies, or work or just plain ol life is carried on.

Again not trying to PISS anyone off just trying to explain it the way it is at times.

[rad14701]

Again not trying to PISS anyone off just trying to explain it the way it is at times.

We really do know how it is, pro65... The fact remains that some of us regulars, me included, get short and even fed up with answering the same questions when a small amount of research can often yield quicker, and definitely more tolerant, answers...

The novice sympathy aspect has been covered far too much... I worked for Chrysler years ago and was into building street rods and stock cars... I can distinctly remember how new mechanics and drivers were treated by those with years of experience... They offered nothing as far as help and perish the thought of asking to borrow tools... I had to earn their respect and expected the newer guys to earn theirs as well... Nobody got a free ride to master mechanic status... This craft, like racing, is no place for prima donna's... You've gotta roll up your sleeves and get dirty...

And, again, pro65, the crux of this thread really doesn't pertain to you, specifically, because you have been working at this for a while... It's intended more to winnow out the chaff who see a TV show and then come here wanting the world handed to them without doing the research... Research that may well save lives - perhaps even their own...