My apple spirit head analysis results

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Wino2Distill
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My apple spirit head analysis results

Post by Wino2Distill »

I've figured out that my still makes the best apple spirit (eau de vie) when it has the reflux column attached. I've tried doing strip/spirit a few times but was never happy with the results.
The problem with running cider through my reflux column is that most of the apple flavour comes out in the heads, which are potentially more concentrated in poisons. (Yes, I have gone through the methanol debates on HD)
This flavour concentration phenomenon was especially true on the last run that I did.
I ran about 25L of cider with about 3 liters of apple feints from a previous run. I threw out the first 120ml and collected another 120ml, which I set aside. I then collected the rest of the run in pint sized mason jars which were more or less full depending on my cuts. (My cuts are based on intuition/smell and not recipe.)
When done, I blended the hearts and poured the tails in my apple feints carboy. I would usually discard the second head cut (the 2nd 120ml) into the feints as well, but it appeared to contain all of the apple aroma that I'm after so I was really tempted to include it in with the hearts.
Fearing I would add poison to my spirit, I sent it to a lab for analysis.
Here are the results:

Ethanol: 79.8%
Methanol: 288 mg/l
Ethyl Acetate: 722 mg/l
Propan-1-ol: 122 mg/l
2-methylpropan-1-ol: 1131 mg/l
Butan-1-ol: 83 mg/l
Butan-2-ol: 5.7 mg/l
Isopentanol: 3910 mg/l
Acetaldehyde: 56 mg/l

I need to research the other compounds more, but it appears that I should not fear methanol so much if I stick with this same process. When corrected to 40% ethanol, the methanol concentration on this cut would be slightly higher than some red wines and way below the legal limit in my province which is 8000 mg/l.

What do you think?
Starting out with an Essential Pro Series II - 8 Gal Kettle
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raketemensch
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Re: My apple spirit head analysis results

Post by raketemensch »

I’ve always loved the idea of apple brandy, but the experience was always harsh. Reading a few dozen threads over the years has explained why.

For me, the toughest part of making the cuts would be mustering the willpower to blend so much heads.

Cranky’s got a ton of experience with making apple brandy with a flute, hopefully he’ll chime in.
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steelmb
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Re: My apple spirit head analysis results

Post by steelmb »

Wino2Distill wrote:...What do you think?
I think people are bat shit crazy throwing away as much likker as they do because of so called heads or tails. I have made nothing but apple brandy sugarheads. It is my way of using up the excess apples from all the apple trees that my Dad had planted. I make a reasonable fores cut, then I collect until the distillate coming off the pipe is down to 20% or less. The design of my still pretty much prevents me from collecting any further at this point. All the distillate is mixed together. I end up with 25% of my wash as 50% ABV apple brandy. I drink and enjoy, no fuss, no muss. A friend of mine coined a name for my liker but I would probably get booted if I repeated it here.

And oh ya, remember you asked!
I believe MCH may have said it best. "It's your hooch, you get to choose."
Ding Dong
http://w.homedistiller.org/forum/viewto ... =7&t=66849
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Wino2Distill
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Re: My apple spirit head analysis results

Post by Wino2Distill »

I know that certain situations can lead to very high methanol contents. For example, ice cider (something that is made here in Canada) is notoriously heavy in methanol. Certain commercial enzyme preparations can also encourage methanol production.
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drotto
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Re: My apple spirit head analysis results

Post by drotto »

ice cider or i think as the states would call it apple jack definitely will have a high methanol content.
that if i understand what you're referring to is hard cider freeze distilled thus the term ice cider.
when you freeze distill there isn't any cuts so the good bad and poisonous are all mixed together.
often a barrel of hard cider is buried for the winter and the cold cycles freezes the water , the alcohol goes to the center if all goes well.
the issue is it concentrates ALL the alcohol and un- freezable compounds together .

that stuff can give the king of bad next days if you over indulge!!
lotta old info about the bad after effects of over drinking applejack if you read colonial accounts closely.
i think their habit of making hot mulled cider back then was actually a good safety measure.
as the applejack was heated over the fire the methanol would definitely be inclined to steam off first.

my two cents

d 8)
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cranky
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Re: My apple spirit head analysis results

Post by cranky »

Iced cider is actually freeze concentrated before fermenting, apple Jack is freeze concentrated after, big difference. Basically you start with high brix and don't ferment dry so the bad things don't really get concentrated. I make iced cider when my special sweet apple tree produces enough apples for 10 gallons of juice, which isn't often and don't get headaches from it.

As far as the cuts on a reflux still, they tend to be very difficult because the "apple bomb" is a very small cut and easily lost. The real trick with apple brandy is blending back enough of the heads to get the flavor but not so much you get a headache so doing cuts on apple or probably better called blending apple takes a different mindset than most other things people make because you have to add in heads. It also tends to take considerable time to age out, even if left white, my 2016 apple brandy is just now starting to com around to what I like.
drotto
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Re: My apple spirit head analysis results

Post by drotto »

thanks for clearing that up cranky.
i always wondered if there was a difference never investigated .
i've read a ton of your posts on apple brandy methods.
though i am not 100% yet i'll follow your advise when i finally run the still i'm building.
D 8)
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