Grape Brandy - Cabernet & Blackbery

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Dougmatt
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Grape Brandy - Cabernet & Blackbery

Post by Dougmatt »

Hi all,

I have been searching for information on Brandy runs for several days and haven’t seen too much information. I just finished my first run of some wine I made about 3 years ago which was a bit of an experiment and hoping that people find this information useful as I personally couldn’t find the detail I was looking for. Thanks to @nzchris and others who have consistently posted responses to other threads from which I learned a lot. Here’s what I made:

Using a cheap Cabernet (ordered on amazon) wine kit I fermented as follows:

Kit instructions were for a 6 gallon kit, Which I made to 5.5 gallons as I find that these cheaper kits are too thin at 6 gallons
This also boosted the SG and final alcohol % to 13% (12.7% to be exact)
During fermentation I added some sautéed fresh blackberries to add the aroma to the wine (in primary it comes through on the nose mostly)
I had 13 remaining bottles from this fermentation completing about 3.25 years ago.
I added tannins to primary (didn’t plan to make brandy :oops: ) and some oak chips during aging (6 months in carboy, rest in bottle)

For the stripping run:
I collected in 8oz / 236ml jars - sanitized with star San (wine making habit?)
I estimated this first run 8L x .127 => 1.016 L potential (no idea if this is correct, but it was close)
I use a stainless steel still, with a slobber box on an induction plate where I control power as watts (10 = 1800, 4= 800).
Temp is in C, measured at dome, and was tracked as a guide for me to try to learn my still.

6/14/21 - First run: collected as small cuts as I wasn’t sure if I would do a second run or not yet and better safe than sorry
4:35pm - temp 20* power 10 #start run
4:50pm - 25* power 10
4:55 - 32* power 10 ## sweet apple aroma detected at outlet, started condenser
5:00 - 45* power 10
5:01 - 50* power 10 #start to drip reduced power to 4
5;04 - 64* power 4 # stream very dry with strong alcohol aroma
5:05 - 72* power 4 # continued broken stream about 100ml collected, smell acetone and sweet
5:10 - 76* power 4 # collected 1/2 jar and swapped (jar 1)
5:15 - 78* power 4 #still broken stream collected second half jar and swapped aroma is softer (jar 2)
5:20 - 80*, power 4 ~half jar and swapped (jar 3)
5:28 - 81* power 4 - half jar swap (jar 4)
5:30 - 81* power 4 #broken stream, 4.25 half jars collected
8:36 - 81* power 4 # jar swap (jar 5)
5:43 - 81* power 4 #jar swap (jar 6)
5:45 - 81* power 4 #broken stream 6.25 half jars collected
5:50 - 81* power 4 # jar swap (jar 7)
6:00 - 82* power 4 # jar swap (slightly more than half) # liquor feels slightly oily (jar 8)
6:08 - 85* power 4 # jar swap - smell is in that wet dog area maybe, feels oily - (jar 9)
6:15 - 85*, power 4 # half jar, shut down, flow stopped immediately. (Jar 10)

~10 half jars collected. Estimate around 1.25L collected.
- emptied slobber box of about 100ml of cloudy sweet smelling stuff ( smelled good. Almost kept it. Wondering what I could have done with it)

6/15/21
Aromas of hearts (4-7) in first run pretty good, hot taste, wasn’t able to measure abv by sample due to small volumes…..decided to do a second run with remaining wine as charge approximating a 1.5 run.

Second run 1.5 (or so) using 5 bottles to which I added full previous run.
- again Collect in 8oz / 236ml jars but filled middle jars more full to get abv of samples.

10:30am- 20* / p 10 # start run
10:45 - 30* p10 #starting to smell apple notes and hearing rumbling noises. Head is hot. Started condenser
10:49 - 42* p10 / p4 #first drips, reduced power to 4, began collecting serious acetone smell, very dry liquor
10:50 - 52* p4 #steady drips
10:53 - 65* p4 # intermittent stream;
10:55 -70* p4 #half jar -fores : Jar 1 (treat as fores even though about 125ml which is probably too much)
10:59 - 72* p4 # half jar harsh smell : Jar 2
11:03 - 73* p4 # half jar, lighter smell: jar 3
11:10 - 74* p4 # 3/4 jar, much lighter smell:Jar 4
11:17 - 75* p4 # 3/4 jar, light sweet smell’ grape and blackberry: Jar 5
11:23 - 76* p4 # 3/4 jar, light sweet smell: Jar 6
11:30 - 76* p4 # 3/4 jar, still sweet smell: Jar 7
11:38 - 78* p4 # 3/4 jar, sweet smell: Jar 8
11:46 - 82* p4 # 3/4 jar, sweet smell:Jar 9
11:58 - 82* p4 # 3/4 jar, changing smell but still seems sweet : Jar 10
12:09 - 83* p4 # 3/4 jar, stream more intermittent, sweet bit maybe wet cardboard in there, feels oily on skin: Jar 11
12:17 - 85* p4 # 3/4 jar, definitely wet cardboard and oily : Jar 12
12:17 shut down.

Put all jars under coffee filters to sample and blend hopefully tomorrow. Early aromas: sweet blackberry and grape notes seem to be coming through.

Estimate average 150-175 ml per jar - so about 2L collected.
Slobber box again full of cloudy sweet smelling stuff.

Blending tomorrow but here’s some abv notes from testing.
Jar 1 - dispose
Jar 2: > 77% (not enough to measure)
Jar 3: > 77% (not enough to measure)
Jar 4: 77%
Jar 5: 75%
Jar 6:
Jar 7:
jar 8: 66%
Jar 9:
Jar 10: 54%
Jar 11:
Jar 12: 36% (strong tails)

I’m not sure if this is helpful, but I had trouble finding anything like this and wanted some ideas of what a run looked like so I thought I would share mine. Also not sure if this is the right place so please feel free to move if it isn’t.

Final question: what oak do any of you who make Brandy use? I have American (light and medium spirals and chips) and French (medium chips) and Hungarian barrels (don't have enough for this though….).
I just read an article about the dangers of drinking that scared the crap out of me.

That’s it. No more reading!
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NZChris
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Re: Grape Brandy - Cabernet & Blackbery

Post by NZChris »

Rather than basing cut decisions on tastings of individual jars, I recommend making up a tasting sample from your obvious hearts jars, then adding to it from jars from either end until you find which jars are one too far. Just because a jar tastes a bit strong of something on it's own, doesn't mean that it's flavor isn't a valuable addition to the flavors in the final blend.
Dougmatt
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Re: Grape Brandy - Cabernet & Blackbery

Post by Dougmatt »

Thanks nzchris. Great advice that I will definitely take. Any recommendations on oak? I have American (light and medium spirals and chips) and French (medium chips) and Hungarian barrels (don't have enough for this though….).

Also have you (or anyone else) tried nuclear aging on your brandy?
I just read an article about the dangers of drinking that scared the crap out of me.

That’s it. No more reading!
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GreenEnvy22
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Re: Grape Brandy - Cabernet & Blackbery

Post by GreenEnvy22 »

I made some grappa/brandy last year from leftover Muscat and Syrah/Shiraz grapes (I make wine so might as well use the leftovers). The Muscat was fresh (not fermented) pomace, about 35 lbs, from our own grapes. The Syrah was left over pumice from a batch of Wine I had made, so already fermented, that was 30 lbs. I also added about 13 lbs of sugar. Added 8 gallons of water.
Fermented down to 1.00, pressed, and had 12.5 gallons.
After stripping and spirit runs, I had almost 1 gallon at 56%
I aged in glass with two 1"x1.5"x6" piece of American white oak, that were scraps from a friends cabinet business. I toasted them both, and charred one of them to medium.
That is about 9 months ago. It's tasting really good now.
---
I have a 50L pot still with dual Liebig condenser.
I typically make Whisky, grappa, and brandy.
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subbrew
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Re: Grape Brandy - Cabernet & Blackbery

Post by subbrew »

you might want to pick up something like this Allows you to measure the abv of small amounts
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Demy
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Re: Grape Brandy - Cabernet & Blackbery

Post by Demy »

I have no experience with wine kits but only with real grapes, every year I distil some wine and also some marc. I always prefer to make clean cuts with very little tail so what doesn't convince me won't be part of the mix. I have tried both oak and chestnut for aging and they all give excellent results so in your case you could do some little tests to understand what you like because it is very subjective
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Re: Grape Brandy - Cabernet & Blackbery

Post by Dougmatt »

GreenEnvy22 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:26 am I made some grappa/brandy last year from leftover Muscat and Syrah/Shiraz grapes (I make wine so might as well use the leftovers). The Muscat was fresh (not fermented) pomace, about 35 lbs, from our own grapes.

I aged in glass with two 1"x1.5"x6" piece of American white oak, that were scraps from a friends cabinet business. I toasted them both, and charred one of them to medium.
That is about 9 months ago. It's tasting really good now.
Thanks GreenEnvy. I am thinking medium American spirals (from my home brew store). I’m starting to look for this years Muscat’s and the farmers market to do a batch myself. Probably won’t have enough pomace for a dedicated Brandy as I usually only shoot for a 6 gallon run, but now you have me thinking! :wink: . Did you post your pomace procedure anywhere, or use a published approach? I’m also think to mix up a few small testers on different woods, and then nuclear age them (or maybe ultra sound) just to see which seems to be the best choice (maybe even a blend).

OFf topic: I bottled my muscat I made from last years farmers market grapes today. Had a really nice blush color. This is for SWMBO who picked 1.014 as the “best tastin” level to back sweeten. We bottle it in plastic juice jugs (8 & 16 ounces) to chill and take on the boat or to the beach. (Picture attached - edited to attach).
9542FCDC-A8EB-4D2F-B7F5-BB4826942831.jpeg
I just read an article about the dangers of drinking that scared the crap out of me.

That’s it. No more reading!
Dougmatt
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Re: Grape Brandy - Cabernet & Blackbery

Post by Dougmatt »

Thanks for the response demy, and the link subbrew (too bad you don’t get a commission as that one is on order 😉)
I just read an article about the dangers of drinking that scared the crap out of me.

That’s it. No more reading!
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GreenEnvy22
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Re: Grape Brandy - Cabernet & Blackbery

Post by GreenEnvy22 »

Dougmatt wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:09 pm 9542FCDC-A8EB-4D2F-B7F5-BB4826942831.jpeg
GreenEnvy22 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:26 am I made some grappa/brandy last year from leftover Muscat and Syrah/Shiraz grapes (I make wine so might as well use the leftovers). The Muscat was fresh (not fermented) pomace, about 35 lbs, from our own grapes.

I aged in glass with two 1"x1.5"x6" piece of American white oak, that were scraps from a friends cabinet business. I toasted them both, and charred one of them to medium.
That is about 9 months ago. It's tasting really good now.
Thanks GreenEnvy. I am thinking medium American spirals (from my home brew store). I’m starting to look for this years Muscat’s and the farmers market to do a batch myself. Probably won’t have enough pomace for a dedicated Brandy as I usually only shoot for a 6 gallon run, but now you have me thinking! :wink: . Did you post your pomace procedure anywhere, or use a published approach? I’m also think to mix up a few small testers on different woods, and then nuclear age them (or maybe ultra sound) just to see which seems to be the best choice (maybe even a blend).

OFf topic: I bottled my muscat I made from last years farmers market grapes today. Had a really nice blush color. This is for SWMBO who picked 1.014 as the “best tastin” level to back sweeten. We bottle it in plastic juice jugs (8 & 16 ounces) to chill and take on the boat or to the beach. (Picture attached - edited to attach).
I just played it by ear. The Muscat we pressed and used the juice for jelly and juice for the kids. I usually make wine from it but didn't get a good enough harvest that year to be worth it. Our Muscat are a white variety.

The syrah I had fermented a couple of weeks earlier, and after fermenting I took the pomace and froze it. Then used in this batch.

I made another batch a month or so later. That one was apples from our apple tree, grinded in a garbage disposal. Again this was the leftover pulp after pressing for juice (made hard cider from the juice). Then mixed in fresh pomace from dornfelder grapes.
I haven't sampled that one recently. I think it's aging on the same type of wood.
I have several whiskies aging on oak spirals.
---
I have a 50L pot still with dual Liebig condenser.
I typically make Whisky, grappa, and brandy.
Dougmatt
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Re: Grape Brandy - Cabernet & Blackbery

Post by Dougmatt »

As part of my research on oak for Brandy I discovered the following paper testing the impact of American, French and Chestnut wood sat medium and intense toast level. This was Brandy de Jerez which is a Sherry Brandy, but I found the chemical results to be the most interesting (ph and phenols).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... 00250title

The taste preference appears to be chestnut followed by American oak each in medium toast.
I just read an article about the dangers of drinking that scared the crap out of me.

That’s it. No more reading!
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Demy
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Re: Grape Brandy - Cabernet & Blackbery

Post by Demy »

Dougmatt wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:14 pm Thanks for the response demy, and the link subbrew (too bad you don’t get a commission as that one is on order 😉)
If I can always try to help, after all we are a community and everyone can receive and give help.
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