recipe for grapes ??

Information about fruit/vegetable type washes.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
brezzybri823
Novice
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 10:19 am

recipe for grapes ??

Post by brezzybri823 » Thu May 09, 2013 10:37 am

hey, im new to fruit washes and mashes and was wondering if anybody had a good recipe using grapes. ive made nuetral spirits out of grains but want to try it now using grapes , HElP!!!

rtalbigr
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 2200
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:25 am
Location: Tennessee

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by rtalbigr » Thu May 09, 2013 12:40 pm

Why would you use grapes for make a neutral? :wtf:

Big R
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt

Schmicter
Bootlegger
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:07 am

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by Schmicter » Fri May 10, 2013 4:13 am

Yea, you won’t get a real neutral using grapes. Maybe if you reflux , but then why bother with fruits, and have to mess with the pulp. But, you could use grapes more as just a nutrient for a wash, if they are free or you don’t mind screening and messing with the pulp, but it will still carry some of the brandy flavor over in a pot still. If that’s the case use about 1 lb grapes per gallon, boil ½ gallon water pour over smashed up grapes and let sit for a few hours to get the sugars in solution and measure the SG. Heat another ½ gal water and dissolve enough sugar and tblsp of tomato paste to get the total combined SG to 1.080 when you combine with the grape water. I go a little high on sugar on the 2nd sugar water because it is easy to adjust with cold water once you combine them. Make sure you adjust SG readings for temperature. Let cool and pitch yeast. It will take off and finish dry in 7-10 days. I also do a similar one to above but instead of grapes use a can of Welch’s frozen conc. per 2 gallons of wash, then no pulp to mess with. Or, if you do want more brandy flavor double or even triple the proportion of fruit or concentrate per volume of water.

Dnderhead
retired
Posts: 13667
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by Dnderhead » Fri May 10, 2013 5:46 am

this is where it gits a bit confusing ,most on here are making "vodka" witch is described as having no "distinguishable" taste this means that some thing is there but you cant tell what.this is where you see potatoes are better than grain and grain is better than sugar etc..
now if its a "neutral" it makes no difference what it is made from as it has no taste,other than alcohol.

User avatar
Grappa-Gringo
Swill Maker
Posts: 396
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:44 pm
Location: North of 49th/PNW

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by Grappa-Gringo » Fri May 10, 2013 3:11 pm

Now grapes can be used in this manner:
Place said grapes in bottom of fermentor. Crush them...Stomp them..do what you want to them to break them up...

Add simple syrup to the the mix. Depending on what you want your ABV to be... 2:1 sugar to water... your choice. Give it a good mix.....Add more water...total amount 4-5 gallons.... pitch yeast...wait it out.
Syphon out liquid once it's stopped fermentation. Use said liquid in your distiller.... enjoy....

Result: a simple version of grappa. Grappa is an alcoholic beverage, a fragrant, grape-based pomace brandy of Italian origin that contains 35%–60% alcohol by volume (70 to 120 US proof). It is similar to Turkish Rakı, Spanish orujo, French marc, Georgian chacha, Portuguese bagaceira, Greek tsipouro, Hungarian Törkölypálinka, Bulgarian ракия (rakia), Serbo-Croatian (Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian, Montenegrin) Rakija/Ракија (in Istria: rakija and grappa), Romanian tescovină, and Macedonian ракија.[1]

Grappa is made by distilling the skins, pulp, seeds, and stems (i.e., the pomace) left over from winemaking after pressing the grapes. It was originally made to prevent waste by using these leftovers. A similar drink, known as acquavite d'uva, is made by distilling whole must.
They say, "you are what you eat"... Then I'm fast, easy and cheap!

junkyard dawg
Master Distiller
Posts: 3080
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:40 am
Location: Texas

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by junkyard dawg » Sat May 11, 2013 5:44 am

Where did that recipe come from gringo?

its not very good advice. Lots of grapes can ferment to 12 or 13 % by themselves. Adding all that sugar is just going to screw things up.

Knowing the brix of the grapes is key to knowing if you even want to add sugar. Otherwise, follow any good wine recipe but omit the kmeta if you plan on distilling. Jack Keller has a great website for learning the ins and outs of grapes.
this is the internet

johnny108
Bootlegger
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:23 am
Location: Germany

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by johnny108 » Sat May 11, 2013 11:32 am

Treat the grapes like normal for winemaking, then you can make a "seconds wine":
If using white grapes, crush/destem, and press immediately- ferment the clear liquid. After pressing, measure how much liquid you got from the grapes. Mix up a bunch of sugar water with the same sugar, and acid levels as the pressed out juice, add this back to the skins, and ferment on the white skins, to get the last of the flavor from them. This wine usually makes a weak table wine, only good for distilling into grappa/brandy, or turning into vermouth.

If using red grapes, crush and destem, ferment on the skins, when the "cap" falls- press. Measure the pressed out wine, and add back that much water at the same levels of sugar and acid. Ferment on the skin, when the cap falls, press and distill, or distill on the skins, if you can be sure you won't burn the skins in the boiler (hard to do with anything but a steam/water bath still).

User avatar
Grappa-Gringo
Swill Maker
Posts: 396
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:44 pm
Location: North of 49th/PNW

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by Grappa-Gringo » Sat May 11, 2013 6:30 pm

Junkyard...
Back in the day when distilling was just that, distilling, not a science like lab experiment, this is what they did in the old contry to get a higher
alcohol level.... Sorry to say, that's what it was.... Yes...you can just crush your grapes... and distill what ever your % is at... as per the elders back home... they never had the little gizmo's that we have now to measure this and measure that.

No disrepect intended.... just telling it like it was done back when I was a kid....lol.......

Pitching the sugar/water/yeast combination also went well when all the grapes were crushed to the point of almost being paper thin....
but if you don't have a grape press.... well...you know the rest...
They say, "you are what you eat"... Then I'm fast, easy and cheap!

Dnderhead
retired
Posts: 13667
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by Dnderhead » Sat May 11, 2013 7:11 pm

grappa started before they had fruit presses .
it came from the day of the old foot stomped grapes.
all the left over peels,stems,seed was dumped into one vat, that's it ,that's all ,nothing added.

User avatar
Grappa-Gringo
Swill Maker
Posts: 396
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:44 pm
Location: North of 49th/PNW

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by Grappa-Gringo » Sat May 11, 2013 8:27 pm

No dishing ya dunder... but unless you're of italian heritage, you can't just say that.... live it
They say, "you are what you eat"... Then I'm fast, easy and cheap!

Dnderhead
retired
Posts: 13667
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by Dnderhead » Sat May 11, 2013 8:37 pm

Produced in Italy, or in the Italian part of Switzerland, or in San Marino
Produced from pomace
Fermentation and distillation must occur on the pomace — no added water

Criterion 2 rules out the direct fermentation of pure grape juice, which is the method used to produce brandy.

Criterion 3 has two important implications. First, the distillation must occur on solids. Thus, it is carried out not with a direct flame but with a bain-marie or steam distillation; otherwise, the pomace may burn. Second, the woody parts of the grapes (the stems and seeds) are co-fermented with the sugar-rich juice; this produces a very small amount of methanol, which is toxic in vastly larger amounts. Unlike in the similar process of making red wine, in Grappa the methanol must be carefully removed during distillation. That is why there is an Italian law requiring winemakers to sell their pomace to grappa makers; this is a measure that was taken against moonshine operations, which are now very rare in Italy.

User avatar
Grappa-Gringo
Swill Maker
Posts: 396
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:44 pm
Location: North of 49th/PNW

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by Grappa-Gringo » Sat May 11, 2013 9:14 pm

That is why there is an Italian law requiring winemakers to sell their pomace to grappa makers; this is a measure that was taken against moonshine operations, which are now very rare in Italy.

That may be the "official" law for the wine makers.... but not for those who own personal vinyards...lol..... :ebiggrin:
They say, "you are what you eat"... Then I'm fast, easy and cheap!

Dnderhead
retired
Posts: 13667
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by Dnderhead » Sat May 11, 2013 10:31 pm

adding sugar/water your making the "moon shine" type of grappa much like making grain sugar head and calling it whiskey.real grappa is made from the vinaccia/ pomace after making "free run" wine.much today is made from whole grapes removing stems/and some seed and is steam injected distilled.being a type of brandy no sugar is allowed.

User avatar
Grappa-Gringo
Swill Maker
Posts: 396
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:44 pm
Location: North of 49th/PNW

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by Grappa-Gringo » Sun May 12, 2013 12:28 am

I guess, if you say it is...it is..... Guess all the farmhouses and such up in Northern Italy that I've been too, drank at and looked at are doing it all wrong....or just making their own version of backwoods grappa.....good enough for them, good enough for me :D

enough of this pissing match....
They say, "you are what you eat"... Then I'm fast, easy and cheap!

Schmicter
Bootlegger
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:07 am

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by Schmicter » Sun May 12, 2013 3:47 am

Maybe Grappa doesn,t realize that those old grappa makers in the old country use a recipe that has been around for many generations and they know and use the same recipe and volumes over and over. But as directions to make a likker on here, just saying to ....get a big pile of grapes and put them in a pit and stomp them, ..now throw in a bunch of sugar water and mix....let ferment then distill...and you have grappa?
Many of us on here do use measuring things.

Dnderhead
retired
Posts: 13667
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by Dnderhead » Sun May 12, 2013 11:27 am

there are 3 basic ways of pressing grapes..hard pressed :this is pressed until you extract all the juice you can.2) light pressed: this the grapes are pressed until you have most of the juice.
free flow: this is not pressed the grapes are more or less broken open and the juice is drained.
when making wine the the less you press the better the wine as you do not extract as much tannins etc..of coarse the less its pressed the more juice is left behind along with the peelings etc.. this is what was used for grappa.so basically when making grappa your making a wine from
whatever juice is left in the peelings. to day as most dont "free flow" when pressing.so whole grapes are added.they also remove stems and some seed as these can leave the "wine" bitter and oily witch will carry over in to product.the only "true" product that I know of that sugar can be added is rum(or grand maws back yard moon shine).now back to grappa. the light grappa is made from white wine skins .white wine is not fermented on the skins and needs to be fermented."heavy" grappa is made from skins etc. of red wine and is fermented on the skins.so no fermenting is needed.(unless you add more grapes)

junkyard dawg
Master Distiller
Posts: 3080
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:40 am
Location: Texas

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by junkyard dawg » Mon May 13, 2013 7:18 pm

Its all good grappa gringo... no offense intended from me either.

I'm a huge fan of country wines and distillates. I totally get where you are coming from. Thats a little different from the formal and legal definitions that many readers identify with. As far as lab gizmos and tester thingies go, experience goes a long way to replace those tools. When someone asks for a grape recipe, they usually need enough detail in the recipe to avoid problems. Years of experience and mentoring from the elders provide that in Italy, but on the internet forum... Some mention of the details like specific gravity are warrented. Thats all I was saying. no pissing match from me...
this is the internet

User avatar
Jimbo
Master Distiller
Posts: 8376
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:19 pm
Location: Down the road a piece.

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by Jimbo » Mon May 13, 2013 7:29 pm

Any idea if these grappa methods work on apple pomace? (sorry for shifting gears, not wanting to derail the grape discussion, just 1 question then Ill bugger off). I pressed 1400 lbs of apples last fall. And everytime I dumped a 35 gallon can of pomace in the compost (many times) it pained me a little cause it sure seemed I could do something better with it than feed the tomatoe plants. maybe an apple marc or something? Add some boiling water maybe to extract more goodness and ferment on the pulp?
In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. But in practice there is.
My Bourbon and Single Malt recipes. Apple Stuff and Electric Conversion

User avatar
Grappa-Gringo
Swill Maker
Posts: 396
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:44 pm
Location: North of 49th/PNW

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by Grappa-Gringo » Mon May 13, 2013 9:01 pm

Junkyard....
thanks for the comment ... what you've stated is exactly what I'm trying to get across...
I guess I just can't get what I'm thinking transcribed onto the page....


cheers
They say, "you are what you eat"... Then I'm fast, easy and cheap!

User avatar
Bushman
Global moderator
Posts: 15190
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:29 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by Bushman » Tue May 14, 2013 4:38 am

jimdo64 wrote:Any idea if these grappa methods work on apple pomace? (sorry for shifting gears, not wanting to derail the grape discussion, just 1 question then Ill bugger off). I pressed 1400 lbs of apples last fall. And everytime I dumped a 35 gallon can of pomace in the compost (many times) it pained me a little cause it sure seemed I could do something better with it than feed the tomatoe plants. maybe an apple marc or something? Add some boiling water maybe to extract more goodness and ferment on the pulp?
This is a lively topic and I don't want to change the direction but to answer your question With my press it runs the pomace pretty dry so I fed some sheep with it which was a big mistake as all over the orchard they then had the scoots. So this year I am planning grappa and will experiment with both by adding juice on some ferment and sugar wash on another for a comparison.

Now this has been a fun and informative thread carry-on, would love to have access to some grapes.

User avatar
Jimbo
Master Distiller
Posts: 8376
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:19 pm
Location: Down the road a piece.

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by Jimbo » Tue May 14, 2013 4:53 am

Thanks Bush. funny. I'll keep an eye peeled for your scootless trials next time.

Back to grape grappa, Ive had some that was pretty horrid and some that was a little sweet and incredible. Muscat Grappa the good one was. Didnt seem backsweetened, altho muscat are very sweet aromatic grapes, usully make dessert wines outta them, it was a flavor bomb.

any idea why some is so good and some is so bad? also does that strange grappa flavor come from fermenting on the stems and pips?
In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. But in practice there is.
My Bourbon and Single Malt recipes. Apple Stuff and Electric Conversion

junkyard dawg
Master Distiller
Posts: 3080
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:40 am
Location: Texas

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by junkyard dawg » Tue May 14, 2013 6:02 am

strange grappa flavor...

I know what you mean. I made grappa once from pressing from mustang grapes. Mine was awful. I can't remember what I did with it, but I didn't drink much more than a taste. One thing I do remember clearly is it took me forever to get the pomace out of the boiler after distilling... :thumbup:

Doing it again is on my bucket list tho...
this is the internet

User avatar
Jimbo
Master Distiller
Posts: 8376
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:19 pm
Location: Down the road a piece.

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by Jimbo » Tue May 14, 2013 6:42 am

right, that 'strange' flavor. Grappa has a bizarre solventy thing goin on doesnt it.

Im gonna give it a shot with some grapes I have growing. And probably the apple pomace too. Maybe together? I always thought grappa was sugared pomace until Dunders post below. So Im gonna give it a go with straight up with partially pressed grapes, fermented on the skins seeds and stems, and see what happens. Prolly end up in the same dusty corner as your neglected grappa JD haha, but it will be a fun experiment.
In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. But in practice there is.
My Bourbon and Single Malt recipes. Apple Stuff and Electric Conversion

Dnderhead
retired
Posts: 13667
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by Dnderhead » Tue May 14, 2013 7:55 am

don't git me wrong,you can make grappa with sugar but like a grain with sugar its just not the same.and wont be athletic.with grappa like many other alcohols it was made long before refined sugar came into the pitcher and wont have the same flavor.

User avatar
Jimbo
Master Distiller
Posts: 8376
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:19 pm
Location: Down the road a piece.

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by Jimbo » Tue May 14, 2013 8:11 am

yup, you dont have to convince me Dunder. I like (prefer) making stuff without sugar :)
In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. But in practice there is.
My Bourbon and Single Malt recipes. Apple Stuff and Electric Conversion

User avatar
ga flatwoods
Master Distiller
Posts: 3189
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:40 pm
Location: SE GA Flatwoods

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by ga flatwoods » Thu May 16, 2013 2:45 pm

Brezzibree823 must've gotten lost in all the grappa discussion when all that was asked for was a grape recipe. I too agree that grapes are a waste used for a neutral and would not bother if that is all I wanted. They can however be made into some good brandy, if you have the right grapes that is. Are there other grapes used for brandy outside of the South USA other than muscodine? Unthinkable! Just kidding. All my fruit recipes use 6lb fruit,, 2 lb sugar, and 3 qts water all per gallon proposed wine. Grapes I seperate from hulls via a 2"x6"x2ft box with a 2"x4"x19" inside the 2x6x2 secured against the bottom leaving the 2x4 suppressed inside. 1/2" hardware cloth is secured 19" square to the 2x4 and battened down with a 1-1/2" strip on top the 2x4to match the top of the 2x6 flush. This box is then placed over a barrel and the grapes placed about one inch deep and crushed with something similar to a bacon press or other heavy flat object that catches the grapes in the squares of the cloth and seperates the pith from the hull without crushing the seed. Flip it over and tap the cloth and the pith falls freely into the barrel off of the screen. Turn it back over and repeat until done. A five gallon bucket takes five minutes! :shh: I generally dont give such secrets away but you guys share nice with me :D . Now add your 3qts per gsllon with the exception of waht you use to make sucrose for your sugar regiment and then add it. The extra water not used for sucrose should be enough to cool for yeast pitching. DO NOT USE BREAD YEAST :!: I can taste it immediately in wine and dont like it :thumbdown:. Use montrachet if you can get it. Now ferment for a week and pull the wash from the pulp. Distill the wash in a pot still, or reflux in pot still mode. Use the hulls for a second wine run if so inclined. The second will be a lighter consistence and make a more subtle brandy probably closer to your neutral you were wanting.
Pears make very delightful drink. Use the same recipe 6, 2, 3 but cut up and boil the pears, strain and use only the juice. Damn pear juice smells good, makes me want some vanilla ice cream for grandma's cobbler! :D
Hope this helps.
The hardest item to add to a bottle of shine is patience!
I am still kicking.
Ga Flatwoods

Priyanka24
Novice
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 11:23 pm

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by Priyanka24 » Tue May 28, 2013 11:48 pm

I generally prefer grapes in my salads, or for making a tasty Angoor ka Sherbat. Here is a recipe for making a moth watering grape shake:

1) Take 1 cup of grapes and the blend it in a mixture for smooth paste.

2) Add 2½ cups of water and mix well.

3)Add the sugar, lemon juice and ginger juice and mix well. Keep in the refrigerator to chill.

4) Pour it into glasses and serve it.

Karooboy
Novice
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:09 pm

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by Karooboy » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:02 pm

Morning all.

So I've just siphoned off 20 l of fermemted grape juice and starting a strip run. What can I use the leftover grape pulp at the bottom of my container for.....

User avatar
NZChris
Master Distiller
Posts: 8577
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by NZChris » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:32 pm

A lightly grape flavored sugar wash using the cooled backset, pomace and sugar to the original volume and Brix of the must. Add the feints to the stripping runs. If it is a suitable grape, there are lots of ways to use this spirit.

Karooboy
Novice
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:09 pm

Re: recipe for grapes ??

Post by Karooboy » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:21 am

Should i start a new bucket with leftover yeast and pulp and add fresh grapes again

Post Reply