Plums and sugar how big is an Ozzy gallon ?

[Pikey]

Waling the dog this morning, we came across a load of little plums on the ground. Red ones and yellow ones (We're calling them bullaces)

SO I happened to have a few plastic bags of the type used by greengrocers in my pocket and collected a few (Turns out I collected 11 lb and hardly made any impression)

Now looking for Taters fruit wash recipe on hd google, came across this thread and found Blanikdog's input helpful, so followed that (except I cut down on the sugar - 3lb in the gallon is too much for "Winemaker me" - so the question I have is this - I know USA calls a gallon 128 oz and UK calls a gallon 160 fl oz (Imperial gallon) - Do yous boys in Oz follow USA or use Imperial ?

http://w.homedistiller.org/forum/viewto ... 2#p6734422

I have eventually put my 11lb (5kg) along with 5kg sugar into a 25 litre open top fermenter and brought it uo to about 20 litres with the intention of bringing it up closer to 25 litres when the cap settles down.

Then hopefully I'll be getting the tyres on my bike and trailer pumped up, chain oiled and going "Proper plumming" in the next few days

Depending how that goes I might try a few different concentrations of plums and vary the sugar in a few washes.

[Shine0n]

if you can get enough plums to do a pure brandy, I'd go that route. plums in my experience has had the most flavors and enough sugar to not have to add any.
If you do decide to use sugar to up the abv, I not go more than .5 lb per gallon maybe even .25 lb.

One more note, when using fruit you don't have to add water, none at all! Just smash the fruit however you choose and add a proper wine yeast, wait till finished then run in your still either with or without the pulp.

Shine0n

[Pikey]

THanks Shine0n - I'm thinking I'll perhaps gather enough to do a 5 litre all plum ferment, but who knows - I can get a bit carried away sometimes and the trees are close (ish) and my little bike trailer should be good for 30-40 kilos, so we shall see.

I'm thinking I only need 50-60 kilos to charge my 220 litre fermenter, to which I'll add a little sugar (say 45 kilos) and a good yeast - I think that will be the first target.

No actually, first target is to collect a few kg to macerate in whiskey and produce a plum flavoured liqueur of some sort for Xmas gifts.

I used to make a lot of country wines and as you say plum has plenty of flavour, so my thoughts are to try to use some of that to flavour alcohol produced from additional sugar. (The principle has worked on other washes.) There are other berries I would never think of fermenting neat - Blackberry, elderberry and sloe to name a few and green gooseberry with added sugar and water will produce a really good "Hock type" wine.

Banana and parsnip produce great sweet wines of the "dessert" type with loads of flavour from just about 3 lb per imperial gallon + sugar.

Peach I've never had a lot of luck with.

The main problem I have had with plum wine is clearing it ! - Pectin haze is a sod to get rid of.

[Pikey]

Ok so the first lot are fermenting nicely on the pulp and today I gathered another 14 kg, brought them home and washed the first half, put them iin my little apple press without mashing them first and started squeezing. A little thin juice has come out and the handle uis now very hard to turn. The net curtain used for a liner is splitting in places and plum "squish" is oozing out everywhere. This is clearly NOT going to work.

I would like to try some Slivovitz type stuff, which I believe is just juice only used. _ Anyone know how to get juice out of plums ?


Daughter suggests boil and strain - but I'm not so sure I want to cook them - or even if it'll help any ?

[der wo]

http://slivovice.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
- on the pulp
- no sugar
- no water
- only ripe plums (only use plums, which fall down the tree when you shake it. Or if you have get unripe ones, wait until they are soft before you mash them)
- no yeast (but feel free to break this rule)

Edit:

4:50 Here you can see how they make multiple stripping runs

[Kareltje]

I agree with Der Wo: a good ripe plum is easy to pulp.
But in stead of cooking I would try freezing as the next best thing to waiting (till they are ripe).

When I made wine I found that they ferment as hell but it is very difficult to get the wine clear, because the skins contain resin. Of course this is no problem after distilling.

[Shine0n]

A video I watched, they slightly crushed them and fermented pulp, stones and all then distilled on the pulp. They did have an agitation system on the pot still though.

I'd love to fall into a ton of plums as I think they have the best carry over of aromas and flavor of any fruit I've tried.

Once they are crushed and yeast added they released their juices plentiful, I couldn't believe how much juice came from them, it looked as if I added water.

Pikey, take 5 kg and crush them up and add some yeast, wait a couple days and you'll see.

Shine0n

[Shine0n]

A video I watched, they slightly crushed them and fermented pulp, stones and all then distilled on the pulp. They did have an agitation system on the pot still though.

I'd love to fall into a ton of plums as I think they have the best carry over of aromas and flavor of any fruit I've tried.

Once they are crushed and yeast added they released their juices plentiful, I couldn't believe how much juice came from them, it looked as if I added water.

Pikey, take 5 kg and crush them up and add some yeast, wait a couple days and you'll see.

I have the luxury of a thumper, all heated by propane so no chance of a scorch so all the solids would go in there and the clear in the primary boiler. Man I wish the plums did something this year, as it is there are none and the ones around costs way too much for me.

Shine0n

[Pikey]

Thanks all

Love that still wo - What a shame that continued "beaurocracy interference" has lost those traditions for many of us - those lads were just doing what they do every year - no guilt, recriminations and the knowledge passed from father to son ad infinitum

Ok I have not picked a single "plum" - these are all picked from the ground without shaking the tree - crawling around - pushing my buckets. Most are ripe some are not many are over - ripe to the point I reject them ( as per Paulinka's fine thread) I can pick around 8-10 kg per hour depending how close they are. I have many more plums still on the trees !

I will weigh a few soon but my guess is around 15 - 30 grammes each with most on the smaller scale.

My little 9 litre bain marie "soup maker" is danaturing the "around 7 kg" which i put in there earlier (Partially squidged from the apple press) and they are breaking up quite well.

I'm thinking I quite like plum jam ("cooked flavour") so I may do a 25 litre wash just based on this cook ? However the stones and skins will be easiest to remove after this cook - so maybe I'll look to fill the big fermenter with cooked "jam" like this - dunno - I need to do as many different methods as I can Jatm - with a good few days of gathering possible if the weather holds !

The plums are small so the "pits" are tiny and to open them up and get the kernel is hardly worth the effort - yet I do like the mild almond of a small addition of kerenls

[Kareltje]

http://slivovice.org/
- on the pulp
- no sugar
- no water
- only ripe plums (only use plums, which fall down the tree when you shake it. Or if you have get unripe ones, wait until they are soft before you mash them)
- no yeast (but feel free to break this rule)

Edit:

4:50 Here you can see how they make multiple stripping runs

Nice film! What surprised me was the part around 8:22, where a second distillation was mentioned. Never seen it before.

And the boiler was rather shallow and had no stirring equipment. I have seen deeper boilers with stirring chains on the bottom.

What I never could assure: are there kernels and skins in the ferment?

[Kareltje]

Thanks all

The plums are small so the "pits" are tiny and to open them up and get the kernel is hardly worth the effort - yet I do like the mild almond of a small addition of kerenls

Funny you say that. I just saw a discussion on http://www.schnapsbrennen.at/diskussion.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow about plumkernels (Pflaumensteine). A calculation about the danger of cyanide in the contribution of baerbeli.

In (loosely) translation: The lethal dose for humans is 5 mg per kg bodyweight, so 400 mg if you weigh 80 kg (male) and 300 if you weigh 60 kg (female). Prunes contain 250 mg cyanide per 100 gr, so 1 kg of stones contains 2500 mg of cyanide.
{Remark from me: the writer does not make any difference between plums, stones and kernels! For safety we must assume that all the cyanide in the plums is concentrated in the kernels.]
Say we macerate 1 kg stones in 1 litre likker of 40 %ABV, then is would surely not dissolve all the 2500 mg cyanide in the litre. But let us assume it does. And if we drink a normal portion of this schnaps, 35 ml, we get 87,5 mg cyanide per drink. To get the lethal dose we must drink 4 to 5 portions of the hypothetical drink.


Die tödliche Dosis bei Menschen ist pi mal Schnauze 5 mg pro Kilo Körpergewicht. Bei 80 Kilo also 400 mg. Pfaumen enthalten 250 mg/100 gr. Ein Kilo Steine hat also 2500 mg. Die müssten wir jetzt essen, aber vorher mit den Zähnen zermalmen, damit auch was im Magen ankommt. Unwahrscheinlich. Und wir müssten es nicht in Mitteleuropa machen, denn da bekäme man im Krankenhaus ein Gegenmittel, dass sofort wirkt, es sei denn, man hatte vorher noch eine Rauchvergiftung oder einen Tauchunfall. Rote Blutkörperchen müssen in ausreichender Menge da sein. 1 kg Steine in einem Liter Schnaps aufgelöst ergeben keinesfalls 2500 mg pro liter Schnaps, aber wir wollen das mal annehmen. Dann trinken wir mal einen großen: 50 ccm. Um die letale Dosis zu erreichen, müssen wir auf einmal 8 dieser Schnäpse trinken.
Nach Korrektion!


I am really puzzled about "pi mal Schnauze". Literally: "pi (3,14etc) times face/beak". Maybe Der Wo knows what this means.

[Pikey]

It's hydrogen cyanide I have seen mentioned with regard to fruit seeds and we have mention on the main site apparently that a man once died from eating a cupfull of apple seeds. Interesting for those who believe "Natural is healthy"

I presume that 5 mg / kg represents the 50% death rate ?
I think you are right that the vast bulk would be in the kernels, since that is where the distinctive almond taste is.

I have not seen anywhere a discussion around whether the poison is able to carry over through the distillation process and thus become more concentrated or whether it is left behind in the pot - does anyone have that information ?

[thecroweater]

Australian gallon is an imperial gallon not USA gal
More or less my usual method http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... y#p7096414

[der wo]

Nice film! What surprised me was the part around 8:22, where a second distillation was mentioned. Never seen it before.

And the boiler was rather shallow and had no stirring equipment. I have seen deeper boilers with stirring chains on the bottom.

What I never could assure: are there kernels and skins in the ferment?

Yes, they distill twice. Other distillers do single distillations. But they have a higher abv in the boiler, because they have much feints added to the wash, because they have to cut early their single runs. I never heard about single runs without added feints.

With this equipment you can strip very fast on the pulp without agitation. Per liter wash it has a huge heating surface (the pot has a large diameter, but very small height).

I think it's easy to see that they distill on the pulp. Probably the stones collect at the bottom of the fermenter. So they have a few in the wash, but not all.

Did you recognized this copper screen? They use it only for the last stripping run when much pulp is in the wash.

[NZChris]

It's hydrogen cyanide I have seen mentioned with regard to fruit seeds and we have mention on the main site apparently that a man once died from eating a cupfull of apple seeds. Interesting for those who believe "Natural is healthy"

It has been recorded that a person died from eating a whole cup of apple pips as a treat on his birthday!

Really? Do you reckon you could eat a whole cup full of apple pips? Would it be something anyone would enjoy? Would it be a nice birthday treat for anyone on this planet? Who would do such a thing? If this has been recorded in some kind of reliable journal, I want to see a reference to it so that I can look it up and verify it, because it sounds like unbelievable internet propagated poppycock to me.

[der wo]

I am really puzzled about "pi mal Schnauze". Literally: "pi (3,14etc) times face/beak". Maybe Der Wo knows what this means.

Good German Kareltje!
baerbeli is someone who always shows some humor when he writes on the forum. There are many very entertaining posts. He is our cranky...

"Pi mal Schnauze": Normally we say "Pi mal Daumen (thumb)". It's like calculating with the fingers, but with Pi. It's originally ment self-ironic, claiming being able to calculate difficult things with the fingers, but it has become just a normal phrase for "approximately". And "Schnauze" is a rude/animal word for "nose" in this case. So it's like not even needing the fingers, but only the nose, the feeling. We also say "der Nase nach gehen", "walking after the nose", when we try to find the way without map.


I have decided not to have an opinion about stones. There are sources like you die after eating one stone and there are other sources claiming apricot stones would cure cancer if you eat enough of them.
BTW the German thread is about making Amaretto (mazerated stones), not about plum brandy.

[Kareltje]

Nice film! What surprised me was the part around 8:22, where a second distillation was mentioned. Never seen it before.

And the boiler was rather shallow and had no stirring equipment. I have seen deeper boilers with stirring chains on the bottom.

What I never could assure: are there kernels and skins in the ferment?

Yes, they distill twice. Other distillers do single distillations. But they have a higher abv in the boiler, because they have much feints added to the wash, because they have to cut early their single runs. I never heard about single runs without added feints.

I did not see that in any film, but might have missed it.

Did you recognized this copper screen? They use it only for the last stripping run when much pulp is in the wash.

Yes, I recognized it. Some time ago there was a discussion about preventing scorching and than I tried to describe it.
When I was young my mother had a device like that to prevent milk from cooking over. Or rather: a lid that worked in the same way.

[Pikey]

Australian gallon is an imperial gallon not USA gal
More or less my usual method http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... y#p7096414

Thank you crow - A lot of good information in just a few words

[Pikey]

.......I have decided not to have an opinion about stones. There are sources like you die after eating one stone and there are other sources claiming apricot stones would cure cancer if you eat enough of them.
BTW the German thread is about making Amaretto (mazerated stones), not about plum brandy.

Oh I'm sure they do contain cyanide (Hydrogen) - I've never tried it with crushed pips, but it might work - However if you chop up a half dozen cherry Laurel leaves and put them in a jar, with a wasp, in a few minutes you will have a very dead wasp. The smell of almonds is there as well.

Just looked again at a few of those stones - they are VERY small ! - but I DO like that flavour.

[Kareltje]

I am really puzzled about "pi mal Schnauze". Literally: "pi (3,14etc) times face/beak". Maybe Der Wo knows what this means.

Good German Kareltje!
baerbeli is someone who always shows some humor when he writes on the forum. There are many very entertaining posts. He is our cranky...

"Pi mal Schnauze": Normally we say "Pi mal Daumen (thumb)". It's like calculating with the fingers, but with Pi. It's originally ment self-ironic, claiming being able to calculate difficult things with the fingers, but it has become just a normal phrase for "approximately". And "Schnauze" is a rude/animal word for "nose" in this case. So it's like not even needing the fingers, but only the nose, the feeling. We also say "der Nase nach gehen", "walking after the nose", when we try to find the way without map.


I have decided not to have an opinion about stones. There are sources like you die after eating one stone and there are other sources claiming apricot stones would cure cancer if you eat enough of them.
BTW the German thread is about making Amaretto (mazerated stones), not about plum brandy.

Thanks for the explanation!

Yes, I saw it was about macerated kernels to imitate Amaretto, but it struck my eye and if you can safely macerate pure kernels in alcohol, you do not have to be afraid of half kernels half fruit in a ferment, I guess.
Kirschwasser has some almond taste, so at least some must come with the distilate. But I saw a recipe for gin that included some bitter almonds with the remark that these are illegal in the USoA. Furthermore I vaguely remember a discussion about copper where cyanide was mentioned too. (And even more vague: there is a recently discovered substance that is formed out of 2 or more N-groups (carbamate??) ?)
From winemaking I remember that elderberries contain cyanide (or its precursor) but that it was removed by cooking the pulp, so I always did that.

Very inconclusive in my eyes too, so I would not really bother about stones in the ferment. Even less as most will keep the kernel inside.

[der wo]

Also the link I posted contains information about double distilling when you do some clicks:
http://slivovice.org/distilling-slivovitz.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
There are many interesting details on this website. Like diluting with sweet water for example.

[der wo]

Yes, I saw it was about macerated kernels to imitate Amaretto, but it struck my eye and if you can safely macerate pure kernels in alcohol, you do not have to be afraid of half kernels half fruit in a ferment, I guess.
Kirschwasser has some almond taste, so at least some must come with the distilate. But I saw a recipe for gin that included some bitter almonds with the remark that these are illegal in the USoA. Furthermore I vaguely remember a discussion about copper where cyanide was mentioned too. (And even more vague: there is a recently discovered substance that is formed out of 2 or more N-groups (carbamate??) ?)
From winemaking I remember that elderberries contain cyanide (or its precursor) but that it was removed by cooking the pulp, so I always did that.

Very inconclusive in my eyes too, so I would not really bother about stones in the ferment. Even less as most will keep the kernel inside.

But when you have distilled cherries, plums, mirabelles, peaches and sloes, and all those brandies have this bitter almond taste, it's boring. This is why I try to remove the stones normally.

[Pikey]

.....But when you have distilled cherries, plums, mirabelles, peaches and sloes, and all those brandies have this bitter almond taste, it's boring. This is why I try to remove the stones normally.

Does that taste come - from the ferment on the "Stones" or do the kernels need to be exposed ? Or is it neccessary to distil "on the pulp" too ?

[NZChris]

The boiling point of cyanide is very low, so I suspect most would be gone before we discard the foreshot. What smears into a heart cut would be barely enough for a hint of flavor.

I've never seen bitter almonds in NZ, so for gin I substitute apricot kernels and loquat seeds collected locally.

[der wo]

.....But when you have distilled cherries, plums, mirabelles, peaches and sloes, and all those brandies have this bitter almond taste, it's boring. This is why I try to remove the stones normally.

Does that taste come - from the ferment on the "Stones" or do the kernels need to be exposed ? Or is it neccessary to distil "on the pulp" too ?

While fermentation the stones add only little bitter almond flavor to the mash. Most of it comes while distilling. If you distill with all the stones, this flavor dominates. Normally it's hard to remove them before fermentation.
The pulp has nothing to do with the bitter almond taste.

[thecroweater]

I will put up some photos or start a tread not in shared recipes where I can go into the process in detail. If a sensible must is put down the Marc is not so hard to remove and the seeds easier still. I do not distill kernels as stated a very small amount of cyanide at a harmless level gives a very bitter flavour so the amount may be wanted would be minuscule . I use plum kernels to flavour tia maria and a little goes a long away. That said if you ferment with seeds in you have unbroken seeds not kernels and the slightly nutty flavour they add is more likely from the woody seed and very little is leached from the kernel so its a bit of a non issue. Distilling the seed would be a different story I'd bet . As with seed in the ferment they all settle to the lees so can be racked off of with ease almost down to the last few handfuls of pulp.

[Pikey]

Thanks crow - thhat would be helpful

[Shine0n]

Once my cap fell I kinda just put my hands in the fermenter and crushed up what pulp I could grab, the bottom of the fermenter was 4" deep in stones and I didn't put any I could see in the boiler, I'm sure a couple made it in there but wasn't too concerning to me.

Even with the addition of sugar I'm quite sure you will enjoy plum likker, dont go heavy on sugar only a little, I kept all but 1 quart clear and the oaked one is still good but not anywhere near the clear.

[The Baker]

der wo said, " We also say "der Nase nach gehen", "walking after the nose", when we try to find the way without map."

If someone asks directions we might say "Follow your nose". (The implication is that that is the only information you need, it is [probably] straight ahead).

Or less likely, 'How did you get there?' "I followed my nose'.

Geoff

[der wo]

"Folge deiner Nase"(follow your nose) we say only, if for example someone asks the way to a yummy bakery.

Because I don't want to post only off-topic content and make Tater mad :
Yes. Adding sugar is ok IMO. You loose some flavor, but it's not extreme. I did a side by side comparision with pears. Apples, pears, and plums are cheap here. The cheaper or easier to pick the fruits are and the larger your aging stock is, the less sugar I would use.