Apple brandy question

Information about fruit/vegetable type washes.

Moderator: Site Moderator

User avatar
Demy
Rumrunner
Posts: 650
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:45 pm

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Demy » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:21 am

Hi, the advice to lower the resistance further down makes a lot of sense, I only have small kettles and I have tried to put it as low as possible. In the current situation I recommend a first quick run in order to increase the alcohol content of the wash and then do a second, quieter distillation. The reason for this is that I have found that with low amounts and low alcohol you would not be able to make decent cuts, at least this is my experience. What alcohol content did you get from apples?

Virandell
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:04 am

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Virandell » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:23 am

Demy wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:21 am
Hi, the advice to lower the resistance further down makes a lot of sense, I only have small kettles and I have tried to put it as low as possible. In the current situation I recommend a first quick run in order to increase the alcohol content of the wash and then do a second, quieter distillation. The reason for this is that I have found that with low amounts and low alcohol you would not be able to make decent cuts, at least this is my experience. What alcohol content did you get from apples?
I didn't done it yet buddy but from first run I am suggesting I will gonna have about 6L~ of low wines so when I will add 13~L of water to cover the heating element the low wines will be dilluted to about 16~%

I just ordered 60L barrel pectoenzyme and yeast the heating regulator should come in 2 weeks but low wines I can do on 2kw

User avatar
Demy
Rumrunner
Posts: 650
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:45 pm

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Demy » Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:10 pm

First you should make sure the apples are very ripe and sweet = as much alcohol as possible (most of them) so you could mix in a small portion of more tart apples to give some flavor if you like that flavor. Complete fermentation, load them into your distillation system, try single distillation (it will probably fail for the reasons mentioned above) if you can't make good cuts, collect everything and proceed with a second distillation (which will be with greater abv therefore easier cuts). In my opinion it is the only way to realize the yield of those apples and your system. You have nothing to lose, if you take the rpimo shot ok otherwise go ahead, run faster and then redistill it. If I misunderstood something correct me. A greeting!

Virandell
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:04 am

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Virandell » Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:58 pm

Demy wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:10 pm
First you should make sure the apples are very ripe and sweet = as much alcohol as possible (most of them) so you could mix in a small portion of more tart apples to give some flavor if you like that flavor. Complete fermentation, load them into your distillation system, try single distillation (it will probably fail for the reasons mentioned above) if you can't make good cuts, collect everything and proceed with a second distillation (which will be with greater abv therefore easier cuts). In my opinion it is the only way to realize the yield of those apples and your system. You have nothing to lose, if you take the rpimo shot ok otherwise go ahead, run faster and then redistill it. If I misunderstood something correct me. A greeting!
They are nice and red some of them are falling and they are wild apples so nothing special it's seems like they are ripe sweet and kinda bitter. The other heavier sour apples could do probably another two-three weeks
Right I think I will go for double distillation first stripping run on 2kw without packing and second run aswell without packing with lower heating :D
I

Virandell
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:04 am

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Virandell » Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:09 am

Picked apples today around 50kg there's another 50kg there but I have only 1 60L barrel :( waiting on yeast should come tommorow and I am starting preparing mash :D
IMG_20201002_140139.jpg

CikCikCikPogodi
Novice
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:54 am

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by CikCikCikPogodi » Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:00 am

I figured out you all are making brandy, we make moonshine here. We drop alcohol content to 20% during first distilling so I get out of two and half 15l buckets of fruit around 10l of alcohol. Then second distill I drop it to 45% alcohol, so when it cools down it drops to around 43%. The point of double distilling is that it goes smoother when you are drinking it.
Only thing I add is 2% of sugar.

Virandell
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:04 am

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Virandell » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:21 am

Hi guys I have a question I will have around 30~L of juice and in my keg I can only fit around 24L can I freeze the rest and add it to the other distillation ? :D (I know I am greedy :lol: )

User avatar
NZChris
Master Distiller
Posts: 8577
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by NZChris » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:34 am

1) Take off 6l of low wines, shut down, add the remaining 6l, restart.

2) For a 1.5, strip about half of the wash. Shut down, empty the still. Recharge with the rest of the wash and the low wines and do a spirit run.

Virandell
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:04 am

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Virandell » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:53 am

NZChris wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:34 am
1) Take off 6l of low wines, shut down, add the remaining 6l, restart.

2) For a 1.5, strip about half of the wash. Shut down, empty the still. Recharge with the rest of the wash and the low wines and do a spirit run.
I need different idea I ordered power regulator and new 50L keg but it will come in around 2-3 weeks and without power regulator I can't do second run, the apples will finish fermenting probably in 4-5 days so I will be doing stripping run on 2kw and keeping low wines in 25L demijohn after that I am going to collect another 50+kg of apples so for 3 weeks I need store somehow that apple juice or eventually throw it away unfortunately which will be a shame but they been for free anyway :roll:
As I said freeze it or maybe some different idea ? Defenetly I can't keep it I think it would get infected and I would have to throw it away eventually add to those 6L of juice 13L of water and do another stripping run but I think if I will add that much water all taste will be gone

User avatar
jonnys_spirit
Distiller
Posts: 1299
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:58 am
Location: The Milky Way

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by jonnys_spirit » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:59 am

Can you put it in a demijohn topped up with air lock like you would an apple wine? SHould be fine for quite a while.

Cheers!
-jonny
————
i make stuff i break stuff
water into whiskey into water
just getting started in home distilling - been drinking for decades
16g copper pot still, 10l alembic, and a column or two
————

stillanoob
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 357
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:15 am

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by stillanoob » Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:01 pm

If you employ proper sanitation you should have no problem keeping your cider until you have a chance to run it. Most of my cider sits for at least 6 months or even longer. I like the results of a long slow ferment better anyway.

User avatar
rubberduck71
Novice
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat May 30, 2020 11:22 am
Location: Eastern PA

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by rubberduck71 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:04 pm

stillanoob wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:01 pm
If you employ proper sanitation you should have no problem keeping your cider until you have a chance to run it. Most of my cider sits for at least 6 months or even longer. I like the results of a long slow ferment better anyway.
+1 to stillanoob

Everything I've read about ciders (which is basically the wash for distilling if you're going for a brandy) is that the flavors improve over 6 months (maloactic fermentation I think?). As jonnys_spirit recommended: rack it into demijohn & airlock it.
There are two times of year: FOOTBALL SEASON and... Waiting For Football Season

User avatar
jonnys_spirit
Distiller
Posts: 1299
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:58 am
Location: The Milky Way

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by jonnys_spirit » Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:31 pm

And top it up for minimal airspace to prevent oxidation. Throw in an oak finger or three. You could also do a clearing of sediment after a couple days and mix it with low-wines if you're doing the 1.5 anyway as higher ABV also protects from infections. Put your demijohns to good use lol!

Cheers,
-jonny
————
i make stuff i break stuff
water into whiskey into water
just getting started in home distilling - been drinking for decades
16g copper pot still, 10l alembic, and a column or two
————

SaltyStaves
Trainee
Posts: 751
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:18 pm
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by SaltyStaves » Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:40 pm

rubberduck71 wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:04 pm
rack it into demijohn & airlock it.
Calvados is kept on its Lees for up to 12 months. No need to rack it.

User avatar
jonnys_spirit
Distiller
Posts: 1299
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:58 am
Location: The Milky Way

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by jonnys_spirit » Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:43 pm

That's interesting and I can see that adding body to the wine/cider. Are the lee's stirred up sur-lie style in this scenario like some chardonnays?

Cheers,
jonny
————
i make stuff i break stuff
water into whiskey into water
just getting started in home distilling - been drinking for decades
16g copper pot still, 10l alembic, and a column or two
————

SaltyStaves
Trainee
Posts: 751
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:18 pm
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by SaltyStaves » Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:33 pm

jonnys_spirit wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:43 pm
That's interesting and I can see that adding body to the wine/cider. Are the lee's stirred up sur-lie style in this scenario like some chardonnays?

Cheers,
jonny
Haven't seen any references to disturbing it. The big oak fermenting vessels they use are thinner walled than an oak barrel, so there would be some more gas exchange happening over that period (compared to a traditonal barrel).

I've only done it with my plastic fermenter for up to 4 months, but other than checking it once a month, I let it rest. The difference after a month is quite remarkable. Acetic acid aroma turns to crisp alcoholic apple.

Virandell
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:04 am

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Virandell » Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:01 pm

Nah I have only 30L demijohns and I am pretty sure if I would pour there only 6~ L of juice it would not be right

The Baker
Master Distiller
Posts: 3157
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:48 am
Location: Northern Victoria, Australia

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by The Baker » Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:42 pm

Virandell wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:01 pm
Nah I have only 30L demijohns and I am pretty sure if I would pour there only 6~ L of juice it would not be right
Why not?

Geoff
The Baker

Virandell
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:04 am

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Virandell » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:21 pm

The Baker wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:42 pm
Virandell wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:01 pm
Nah I have only 30L demijohns and I am pretty sure if I would pour there only 6~ L of juice it would not be right
Why not?

Geoff
It would oxidise I think that's how it is with wine but I might try it better than throwing to the toilet

The Baker
Master Distiller
Posts: 3157
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:48 am
Location: Northern Victoria, Australia

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by The Baker » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:11 am

It won't oxidise unless you allow access to oxygen.
And if you let it sit still the carbon dioxide that sits on top will protect it from oxygen.

Geoff
The Baker

stillanoob
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 357
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:15 am

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by stillanoob » Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:43 am

When I have a small amount to put in a large glass container, I usually purge the container with CO2. If you don't have CO2 handy, I wouldn't worry about it, especially if the product is still actively fermenting. I also have a variety of glass container sizes so I can usually come up with something of appropriate size. More important than the CO2 is making sure you are properly sanitized.

Virandell
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:04 am

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Virandell » Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:51 am

Right thanks alot guys for suggestions 1 more question I will be using copper bokabob for making apple brandy 140cm scrubber packing I am planning distill it 2 times
I am not sure if I should take all packing out or leave it all? I am abit worried if I will leave all packing I will lose alot of flavour

Virandell
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:04 am

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Virandell » Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:57 am

stillanoob wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:43 am
When I have a small amount to put in a large glass container, I usually purge the container with CO2. If you don't have CO2 handy, I wouldn't worry about it, especially if the product is still actively fermenting. I also have a variety of glass container sizes so I can usually come up with something of appropriate size. More important than the CO2 is making sure you are properly sanitized.
Nope I don't have co2 unfortunately and well the apple mash will be not fermenting anymore as I will see how much exactly juice I have after fermentation finish I think I will just freeze it :ebiggrin:

Virandell
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:04 am

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Virandell » Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:18 pm

Hi guys soon my apple mash will be finish and I will be distilling it but that's not the end ! :D I will be going for another 60kg~ of apples but this time I will be mincing and fermenting everything and filtring it just before distillation (I read it's adding alot more flavour when u fermenting mince than just juice) but I have few questions I will be adding 0 water and 0 sugar
So i will be fermenting 60kg of apples in barrel with added yeast how I can know the fermentation is finish as it will be hard to check on sugar meter if all sugar is eaten ? :D
Also anybody been doing it like that ? Is it hard to filter it ?
Do I have to stir it everyday until fermentation is finished?
And yeast will not have problem to eat all sugar like that?

The Baker
Master Distiller
Posts: 3157
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:48 am
Location: Northern Victoria, Australia

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by The Baker » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:33 pm

Taste it.

Geoff
The Baker

Windswept
Swill Maker
Posts: 265
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:32 pm

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Windswept » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:13 pm

I did a bunch of brutes last year with cider and chunks (pressed it, added water and the cider to the chunks, fermented, then pressed again) and even with the open ferments only had one batch go to vinegar. distilled it anyway and got a lower, but still decent yield from it. another batch had a real lacto going with an almost kombucha-like layer on the top, distilled it too. long story short, mixed it all together as low wines and redistilled and it turned out wonderfully. the really low alcohol content made it super flavourful! if you want rack it to a secondary and cap it, that should hold it, but even if it goes off it won't go off fast. Total time in the brutes was well over the 2-3 weeks you're asking about here.
If I didn't learn the hard way, I wouldn't learn at all!

Farside
Novice
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:17 pm

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Farside » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:56 pm

You live in Poland right? How cold does it get in winter?
Here in Canada I ferment the apple pulp in pails until it is done. Then I put the pails outside where they freeze.

Then I scoop out the frozen mush and put it in a pail with holes in the bottom that sits on to of another pail and I bring it into the cold garage where the cider drains through and collects in the bottom pail leaving ice and pulp in the top pail.

I put the cider back outside and as winter gets really cold, it keeps freezing and I keep repeating the process until I have oncentrated applejack at around 30% alcohol.

Then in spring I run this through the pot still just once and making cuts.

User avatar
NZChris
Master Distiller
Posts: 8577
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by NZChris » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:16 pm

Farside wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:56 pm
Then I scoop out the frozen mush and put it in a pail with holes in the bottom that sits on to of another pail and I bring it into the cold garage where the cider drains through and collects in the bottom pail leaving ice and pulp in the top pail.
Have you been recording the volume and ABVs of the thawed liquor and the discarded wash?

Farside
Novice
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:17 pm

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Farside » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:09 pm

Only the thawed liquor. I've thawed the leftover wash but the residual alcohol was too low for my instrument to measure. Going by taste I couldn't perceive any so it's likely less than around 3 percent.

Running some calculations based on how much is in the initial wash and the final volume and percentage the wastage is pretty low. Like 5% of the total recoverable alcohol.

User avatar
jonnys_spirit
Distiller
Posts: 1299
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:58 am
Location: The Milky Way

Re: Apple brandy question

Post by jonnys_spirit » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:26 pm

Interested in how you’re measuring the ABV in the jacked product?

Cheers!
Jonny
————
i make stuff i break stuff
water into whiskey into water
just getting started in home distilling - been drinking for decades
16g copper pot still, 10l alembic, and a column or two
————

Post Reply