Wild apple yeast propagated in 5% alcohol?

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BarB-Q-Man
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Wild apple yeast propagated in 5% alcohol?

Post by BarB-Q-Man »

Hi all, long time brewer and distiller getting into meads, and my first post in years and years.

I am looking at making a 12ish gallon batch of cyser and was wondering about yeasts.

I have read the posts about the various mead yeast options, ec-1118, D47, different wine yeasts and so on but these posts do not answer my unusual question.

I am wondering if it is worthwhile to use the natural yeast on the apples to ferment the cyser? Does it work out well often enough to be worth doing? I have read that when propagating the yeast it is worthwhile to add about 5% alcohol at the start so the yeast is attenuated to it. Has anyone had success with this? or is it just better to grab a commercial yeast and move on?

My plan is to make a starter with the apple skins, mixed with honey, warm water, a bit of yeast nutrient and 5% of alcohol by volume, put it into a 2 L beaker on the stir plate and set the temp to 80 F and let it go for 2 or 3 days. To get the skins I am going to make a bunch of apple pies, taking the skins for yeast. (apples are bulk, non-waxed). If you have done this, should I use the peels whole or wiz them up? I am leaning to wiz them up. I am looking for any advice, input or best practices on this yeast collection process.

For the cyser, I'm using water, 10 gallons of pasteurized apple juice from the local apple farm, and 15lbs of clover honey. Beer Smith says I should get a SG of 1.087 That should work out to about 10-12% when finished. After the first racking, ill be adding 10 pounds of sliced apples and leaving them in until the final racking.

I am going to give this a try but hope to grab some input before I start trying to get that apple yeast.
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TwoSheds
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Re: Wild apple yeast propagated in 5% alcohol?

Post by TwoSheds »

Hmm… I have a lot lazier technique but I’ve had good luck with wild yeast. My cyzer is more like this:

4-ish gallons unpasteurized cider from a local orchard. Boil most of a gallon with 5-7 pounds honey and let it cool, then add back to the rest of the cider. A little yeast nutrient is about all else I add and I’ve had no trouble hitting 12-15% abv. Only one of my cyzers stalled but some of them have finished sweeter than I would like.

If you have the time make a 1 gallon batch and see how it goes, then use a bit of that to culture your starter.

Wild yeast will always be unpredictable, but it’s lovely when it works. The other variable is the honey which can have highly variable types of sugar and therefore fermentability.

Also, when I have played with commercial yeast with meads D47 has brought out the honey flavor better than others, but as with everything, YMMV.
BarB-Q-Man
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Re: Wild apple yeast propagated in 5% alcohol?

Post by BarB-Q-Man »

I was hoping for unpasteurized cider, but I can only get that in September and October I was told. Would be much better as the natural yeast will be all through the must.

Do you notice any loss of flavour from boiling the honey? I have done that in the past, but have read that it losses some of the honey after taste? Since I've not done a no boil mead - I don't know ..... maybe split this into 4 and find out.

Just picked up a bushel of Gala apples - ill be starting tomorrow with the yeast capture.
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TwoSheds
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Re: Wild apple yeast propagated in 5% alcohol?

Post by TwoSheds »

BarB-Q-Man wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:39 am I was hoping for unpasteurized cider, but I can only get that in September and October I was told. Would be much better as the natural yeast will be all through the must.
Not surprising. Some of the unpasteurized cider I get is so 'active' it bulges out the buckets just getting it home!
BarB-Q-Man wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:39 am Do you notice any loss of flavour from boiling the honey? I have done that in the past, but have read that it losses some of the honey after taste? Since I've not done a no boil mead - I don't know ..... maybe split this into 4 and find out.
Now that you mention it I started out boiling the honey, now I just put heat under the honey/cider and mix until it combines. It gets warm but nowhere near a boil. Haven't done a side-by-side to compare, but flavor seems good these days. If you're using raw honey I'd be a little concerned about yeast coming in from there as well, but that's where a yeast starter will bail you out.

Good luck!
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Ben
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Re: Wild apple yeast propagated in 5% alcohol?

Post by Ben »

Skip the honey in your starter, its too difficult to ferment. You just want to build the colony, apple juice would be a good starter add DAP or boiled yeast for a nutrient. Let it go a day or two, crash cool to settle, decant the liquid, add more and put it back on the stir plate. Should get you built up. You want the most welcoming environment possible for the yeast to allow them to overtake anything else that might exist in your starter. The product of the second starter should have a pleasant smell.
:)
BarB-Q-Man
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Re: Wild apple yeast propagated in 5% alcohol?

Post by BarB-Q-Man »

Thanks Ben, i didn't use the honey as suggested and its very active already. ill follow the rest of your advice, thanks - looking forward to drinking this one.
The only hobby I know where you can drink your mistakes - most times that is.
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